CHICAGO | General Developments

[r18tdi]

Any news or movement on that Obriens hotel in old town?

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Any news or movement on that Obriens hotel in old town?

Just biked past. Still a fenced gravel lot.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Rizzo

Just biked past. Still a fenced gravel lot.

I’m guessing this project is dead

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by gebs

Here is a detailed and lengthy report that I believe many SSP users would find interesting:

Study: What to Do with All the Vacant Land in Major US CBDs?
Iona Ginsac, Commercial Café

Some highlights:

"But what does growth mean for cities? It means an increase in population, more jobs, making room to accommodate an economic expansion, or even redrawing city boundaries. Eventually, it means banking on salvageable abandoned structures and developable vacant lots, and this is where market research usually comes to a screeching halt."

"There have been very few national studies of urban vacant lots, and not for lack of effort. Widespread inconsistencies in property classification and data management make it very difficult to put together a comprehensive record."

"... some of the least dense urban cores have seen the slowest development activity during the past five years, while developers have been significantly busier in the more tightly packed city downtowns."

Chicago is 3rd in CBD construction since 2013 (NY #1, Dallas #2, Houston a close #4), but 11th in available developable land.

"When asked what developments they want in their city, 72% of respondents chose housing and homeless shelters. These choices went up to 83% when respondents were asked what they think their city needs most. Many respondents also mentioned the need for not just any type of housing, but for affordable housing."

"It turns out that most Americans would rather walk. Walkability was the top choice of most beneficial transportation improvement, overall, across the 25 cities we surveyed."

"However, America’s infrastructure problem runs too deep for an easy fix. The latest report card graded by the American Society of Civil Engineers said “D+” and urban sprawl has a lot to do with it, as the asphalt network that sprawled American cities has become a burden."

Here are some depressing statistics that are sure to be catnip to many of us: "... somehow our cities have more parking than is necessary. Take Los Angeles for example—the area taken up by L.A.’s notoriously car-centric, county-wide sprawl is 14% parking. The [city's] central business district reportedly has a total of 260,000 off-street parking spaces per square mile, yet drivers end up spending 85 hours in a year looking for a place to park."

There's a lot to unpack in the article. Worth a read.

Interesting. But not certain what to make of the city comparisons in these kinds of analyses without a consistent and meaningful framework. For instance, Chicago CBD is identified as having 16.86 vacant acres. But The 78 - which I imagine most locals would consider CBD once it is complete even with the lower density designation - itself is 62 acres.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ There is no way in hell Dallas has had more construction in its downtown than Chicago unless they are talking about very tight parameters (Loop proper), and office only, which I could certainly buy.

But if you expand to the entire downtown area, and add in condos, apartments, hotels, etc, then I imagine it's not even remotely close

Yeah, I was surprised to read that as well. I guess not all downtown projects will need a crane to get built, but wasn't Seattle leading the country in active construction cranes for a while? What happened to that? I'd at least expect them to out perform Dallas, but maybe not.

Regardless, downtown Dallas is certainly not out-building downtown Chicago.

[Flaccer05]

Fulton Market/West Loop Update, May 22

939 W. Fulton Market




905 W. Fulton Market


801 W. Fulton Market




Illume 111 S. Peoria










900 W. Washington Side note but one of the Penthouse units is pending for $5.6 million. Insane for West Loop.






Booming! Hayden West Loop foreground of top right, 113 N. May (Hyatt Extended Stay Hotel) in middle, 180 N. Ada Street in background

[harryc]

Originally Posted by Flaccer05

Fulton Market/West Loop Update, May 22

Illume 111 S. Peoria

Superb shot -

[Fvn]

Originally Posted by Flaccer05

Booming! Hayden West Loop foreground of top right, 113 N. May (Hyatt Extended Stay Hotel) in middle, Twelve01West in background

I think the one in the background is actually 180 N Ada. Twelve01West isn't a Liebherr tower crane

[Flaccer05]

Originally Posted by Fvn

I think the one in the background is actually 180 N Ada. Twelve01West isn't a Liebherr tower crane

Ahh you are correct. Apols and fixed. Hard to keep track of all the cranes from a distance.

[killaviews]

Regards to Edith and Prairie School, a Fulton Market restaurant and a cocktail bar in the Google building are closing down. The Eater noted that the owners cited lack of foot traffic due to construction.

Is retail jumping the gun? I visited a few establishments a few weeks ago during the day and it’s kind of quite.

I’m sure it also doesn’t help that multimillion dollar 100+ seats restaurants are opening up all over the city either.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by killaviews

Regards to Edith and Prairie School, a Fulton Market restaurant and a cocktail bar in the Google building are closing down. The Eater noted that the owners cited lack of foot traffic due to construction.

Is retail jumping the gun? I visited a few establishments a few weeks ago during the day and it’s kind of quite.

I’m sure it also doesn’t help that multimillion dollar 100+ seats restaurants are opening up all over the city either.

My experience with West Loop has been that it really matters where you are with regards to this. Sometimes I'd be surprised at how much foot traffic on certain days there is at an area like Green & Randolph or Randolph & Halsted. Then I'd go just a few blocks away closer to Google and there wouldn't be a lot. The thing is that the Stephanie Izards and Grant Achatzs of the world can get away with it because they're widely known across the US to foodies and even across the world (Achatz especially). The bars that just closed may have been good but they have less appeal to people to go and seek them out. The only way they'll get more is by having a Michelin star - like Smyth or Elske.

I think it's all part of the growing pains stuff and will be interesting to see how it plays out. Way more people live or will live near Madison St than Fulton Market. Fulton Market, the street, is establishing itself as more office heavy but also trying to get some nightlife and what not. The known names like Izard and Achatz helps, but there will need to be more and more stuff to draw the foot traffic. I think that'll come, but it'll probably be not for another year at least when stuff like the Timeout Food Hall is done and whatever else. There will unfortunately be sacrifices like we see with this.

[the urban politician]

^ Dont forget the hotels

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Dont forget the hotels

Oh yeah - thought I mentioned that. Yeah it just seems like the more "north" part of West Loop is gearing more towards hospitality whether bars and restaurants or hotels plus office. If a bar wants to succeed there that isn't from someone well known or doesn't get a lot of press, then it's going to have to basically be in the middle of a nightlife area. It'll be interesting to see how that particular part is in 5 years.. By then there may be more people living around there anyway.

I think it'll also be interesting to see what happens in the more "southern" part of the West Loop where stuff like H2O (whatever it's called) and Union West are being built. Those are hundreds of units if not over 1000 not counting other projects already being done.

[10023]

Originally Posted by VKChaz

Interesting. But not certain what to make of the city comparisons in these kinds of analyses without a consistent and meaningful framework. For instance, Chicago CBD is identified as having 16.86 vacant acres. But The 78 - which I imagine most locals would consider CBD once it is complete even with the lower density designation - itself is 62 acres.

It’s not officially part of the CBD:

https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/e...sdistrict.html

The CBD extends west to Halsted and south to Roosevelt Road.

Hell, I’d guess the only reason Dallas ranks ahead of Chicago in CBD construction is that most of the action in Chicago is in areas (the West Loop, South Loop, etc) that aren’t considered CBD. There’s less CBD construction because Chicago’s traditional CBD is pretty close to built out.

[10023]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Oh yeah - thought I mentioned that. Yeah it just seems like the more "north" part of West Loop is gearing more towards hospitality whether bars and restaurants or hotels plus office. If a bar wants to succeed there that isn't from someone well known or doesn't get a lot of press, then it's going to have to basically be in the middle of a nightlife area. It'll be interesting to see how that particular part is in 5 years.. By then there may be more people living around there anyway.

I think it'll also be interesting to see what happens in the more "southern" part of the West Loop where stuff like H2O (whatever it's called) and Union West are being built. Those are hundreds of units if not over 1000 not counting other projects already being done.

What it will need is a shopping street. I hope Madison is being developed with that in mind (ie, large ground floor retail that can accommodate boutiques, not just banks and pharmacies).

If not then the nightlife district won’t last. It will give way to retail like the Meatpacking District largely has in NYC.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by 10023

It’s not officially part of the CBD:

https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/e...sdistrict.html

The CBD extends west to Halsted and south to Roosevelt Road.

Hell, I’d guess the only reason Dallas ranks ahead of Chicago in CBD construction is that most of the action in Chicago is in areas (the West Loop, South Loop, etc) that aren’t considered CBD. There’s less CBD construction because Chicago’s traditional CBD is pretty close to built out.

Agree for the most part. The South Loop has a ways to go though. The vacant and surface lots alone could easily keep a few developers busy for over a decade. There are probably over 50 such parcels between Congress and Cermak. Maybe a dozen of those are within the CBD between Congress and Roosevelt.

The underutilized parcels could keep construction steady for another decade or two. I think the three to five story buildings give the area a bit of character that has been mostly lost in River North, but there are plenty of lots with one or two story buildings that should definitely meet the wrecking ball.

It's been discussed here, but Dearborn Park and Roosevelt Collection really throw everything off down that way. Different time, but the city goofed up allowing that to happen. When the rail yard was destroyed the street grid should have been fully integrated within the area, even if only down to Roosevelt. Printers Row and the surrounding blocks are some of my favorite in "old" Chicago. It's like stepping into a time machine.

[killaviews]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Oh yeah - thought I mentioned that. Yeah it just seems like the more "north" part of West Loop is gearing more towards hospitality whether bars and restaurants or hotels plus office. If a bar wants to succeed there that isn't from someone well known or doesn't get a lot of press, then it's going to have to basically be in the middle of a nightlife area. It'll be interesting to see how that particular part is in 5 years.. By then there may be more people living around there anyway.

I think it'll also be interesting to see what happens in the more "southern" part of the West Loop where stuff like H2O (whatever it's called) and Union West are being built. Those are hundreds of units if not over 1000 not counting other projects already being done.

The southern part has always felt a bit sleepy. It is hard to develop what has evolved organically in areas like Lakeview and Wicker Park. Look at the South Loop. It has exploded with residents, but that "neighborhood feel" is still evolving after so many years.

Neighborhoods need to be connected to other neighborhoods. Right now Fulton Market/West loop is acting like island. And there are a few physical barriers enforcing that island. You can walk from River North to Rogers Park and grab a beer every block. Fulton Market/West Loop needs a good neighbor. Or a few good neighbors. I think the United Center would make a great one.

[Rocket49]

Originally Posted by killaviews

You can walk from River North to Rogers Park and grab a beer every block.

That would be an interesting challenge.

I’m thinking there might be stretches in Lincoln Park and Edgewater where you might have to walk several blocks between beers.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Rocket49

That would be an interesting challenge.

I’m thinking there might be stretches in Lincoln Park and Edgewater where you might have to walk several blocks between beers.

Maybe two blocks in a few spots?

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by killaviews

Neighborhoods need to be connected to other neighborhoods. Right now Fulton Market/West loop is acting like island. And there are a few physical barriers enforcing that island. You can walk from River North to Rogers Park and grab a beer every block. Fulton Market/West Loop needs a good neighbor. Or a few good neighbors. I think the United Center would make a great one.

River West also feels like an island, despite being north of Fulton Market/West Loop. Heck, someone pointed out that the Grand blue line stop is closer to NE parts of Fulton Market than the Morgan stop. I imagine that once a couple of the office projects on the NE corner of Fulton Market are finished, there will be a more seamless transition between the two areas.

Originally Posted by Rocket49

That would be an interesting challenge.

Uhh, you better not mean all in one night