Long Beach Construction (Planned, Proposed, & Current)

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LB Life07

getting back on subject here!! The Statue of Freedom.......is this supposed to be something similar to the Statue of Liberty!! If so why would we put something like that up....it has no such meaning as the Statue of Liberty as in the fact that it was a gift from another country....I dont think we need something like this, I don't think that it will add anything to the city!!

That statue is hideous.

[ChrisLA]

Wow this thread has gottne more activity in the last day than it has in months.


I'm with LAMetro on this, I lived in the area for 7 years, haven't had a problem. There are a lot of young people that dress in hip hop culture, and many whites just assume they are gang members. Personally I don't particular care for a lot of it, but hey its not my generation. I have a 15 year old nephew who has long hair, sometimes he wears an untamed afro sticking all over his head. I don't like it, and I tell it that all of the time, but thats his mom choice to let him wear it that way. Anyway he's not a gang member, and he's not out causing trouble. I talk to him all of the time about his appreance because I know people will judge him that way. I know he's a good kid with typical teenager tendencies. But I also let him know being a young black kid, people will not like you, and especially the police will make assumptions, and so will a lot of white people as well. Just like what is being said in this very thread.

From what I've seen down at the Pike are young kids hanging out, especially on the steps (I think thats what is was meant for, a meeting place) across from Cold Stone. Typically being teenagers, boys and girls playing the cat and mouse game and fliirting. Yes I've seen some a bit loud, and using profanity. Its not something that only minorities do, but many of todays teenagers. I personally don't care for this, but its not something I have control over (freedom of speech).

Now going down to Belmont Shore, I visit as well for dining and walking around. I've have seen the same thing happening, but yes with a mostly white crowd. Its usually the college students later in the evening after the dinner crowd are going home. They get drunk, use fowl language, and act rowdy at times. There's been a couple of times I didn't like what I see amoug these youngsters, and knew it was time to head home. So please don't say these things don't happen in other areas because they are well to do, and mostly white.

I watch the local channals all of time, and guess what? Lots of Belmont Shores residents complaining about the sometimes rowdy young people. I've seen where they blame a lot of it on certain establishments. I've also read in the Press Telegram several times about violence after the clubs close down in this area. Yet its not hyped up in the media, nor do you hear folks saying oh its gang related. Why because they assume that everyone white is not in a gang, and any incident with minorities its always gang related. Too much alcohol can can cause a lot of probelms, and that occurs in every district that has a lot of establishments of such. Hell I seen a bunch of rowdy folks on my trips to Amsterdam, and London, and guess what that were pissy drunk.

Again I'm not naive, I grew up in the hood (South Central & Watts), so I think I'm a bit more aware of who perhaps is involved in a gang, and those who perhaps are your typical kid from the hood. BTW even though I grew up in these areas, you would never know by how I dress or look. I could look like an easy target since I don't fit the look of someone from the hood, and yet as LAMetroGuy I haven't encounter any problems.

[drisee]

wow, this has gotten out of hand.

i'm going to try to keep this civilized as the last thing i want to see is for us to get all gangsta up in here

LAmetroguy. You're right that i shouldn't have said that you misquoted me. Sorry about that. I just wanted to make it clear that i along with going to the movies every couple weeks i'm also in the area almost every day, which i didn't mention the first time around.

Outside of that you have to admit that you're putting the spotlight on what you want push from this conversation and you're ignoring all the facts. I've mentioned plenty of times that for me i have personally witnessed more then one incident that was clearly gang related. But yet you keep claiming the only one incident thing making it look as if i'm totally blowing things out of proportion, which isn't fair of you to do. either is putting words in our mouths like saying that we want to ban people and racially profile the public.

From the beginning of this conversation Sopas EJ was just trying to say that in the past it's been somewhat of a turnoff to see a gangster looking element from time to time. i was agreeing with him to say i've witnessed it as well and i've also witnessed the violence to go along with it.

then it seems as if we were made to look like bad guys and to point out that drunk people are in every city that has entertainment so we should just chill out. of course this isn't about drunk people outside bars, obviously that happens in every city. just another example of where you guys are stretching things to fit your argument.

so just to clarify from my end, there are some shady looking people that hang out around the pike/downtown from time to time. I'm not saying they're all gangsters, but they're definitely not my cup of tea. The biggest point that Sopas EJ and i are trying to make (sorry to speak for you sopas) is that people gain an impression of downtown based upon what they see. Sure, the guy with the triple XXXL white t shirt, baggy pants off his ass, doo rag, tats and backwards hat might be an upstanding citizen, but in the court of popular opinion people are going to make a judgment about him. People have a bad impression of downtown long beach due to a part of the demographic that hangs out here. It's a fact guys. If you don't believe me you should poll some people that live in LA, OC or other parts of Long Beach. I've talked to people from belmont shore that are afraid to come down here because they think they'll get carjacked/mugged/robbed. Like i said i'm not making this shit up, do your own research.

That's why i try to espouse raising the bar. Bring some class back to the city. We fucked up with walmart and the pike but we can get it going in the right direction. Demand a better city that will hopefully attract better people so that in the end of day people will have a better impression then the one they have now.

Back to the business at hand...where did you get that crazy mockup from? i've heard of it and my first impression isn't a good one.

[lbguymetro]

wow...this is just my third post here and it becomes a relay of opinions...after all is said and done, we all actually just wish that long beach will prosper...long beach is a city full of diversity and as long as we put cops all over the place, gangs will have a hard time thriving in the area (that's why they're all over the place on weekends)...youths these days dress up differently and people should understand that preference....anyway, in my area in ocean blvd, people always go out and walk their dogs without worries...soon when the villa riviera is renovated, east ocean blvd will become more elegant....bad things may happen, but thats a very isolated incident that could happen in any good neighborhood...a lot of people i talk to , coz i work in LA, have always admired the transformation of long beach....its a place to relax! i have never heard of any gang-related comment from them citing downtown long beach..they would usually comment on north long beach...at least in pike , we could still see decent people roaming the place on weekends ..such scenario could also be seen in santa monica...pike is not that bad since its a family friendly area..but i do think that if you really wanna transform pike into an upscale area, the architecture must be torn down and changed into a more classy design!!! how i wish that that white building in front of the pike will soon be renovated into a classy structure so it can overshadow the flaws of the pike....on the other hand , however, i think you would agree with me that a big sore is the cityplace!!! no class and most bums are there magnetized by walmart...how can they advertise such place as a wonderful shopping district in the website when its nothing compared to other shopping places.....a big, big, big mistake....organizers or planners ,can you hear me ?

[LB Life07]

I know we say it over and over again but city place is a bad look!! I really think that the location could have been used in a wiser manner!! I mentioned earlier that I would've liked to have seen a macy's there!! I said this because when I think of this area I think of a location similar to that of Union Square in SF.. Union square is a great place in the center of downtown with a good mixture of retail ranging from independent to chains and it thrives because of it's great urban look and feel!! it's location is perfect because of the way it sits you have a great look of all the buildings around you!! City place should have been something to this effect!! and the pike should have been something along the lines of the grove!! I like the theatre and the borders. I think everything else should go, I can't wait for the laugh factory to open up!! that's supposed to be ready around the holliday season!! they are currently working on this!! if you go by there take a look inside and you might catch people working inside!! Also the laugh factory has a website that advertises the opening this holliday season!!

[lbguymetro]

i hope that the laugh factory would open soon.....i suggest that they should at least add more greeneries (flowers and plants ) and benches to the pike....what about a water fountain so kids could enjoy? these would be great additions...honestly, i dont know how they will ever change cityplace....seems like walmart is gonna be there forever...and the bad thing is , its close to the condos theyre building...and what about hometown buffet? i dont even wanna eat there....i have so much stress with my work already and at the end of the day, this is not the kind of milieu that i wanna be in...if there is one thing that i really wanna happen to downtown long beach, i wanna see a mall like macy's and an upscale one....i believe that this is all it takes for long beach to become a real place to work, play and live...come on, what makes torrance such a draw these days ? its the del amo fashion mall! its a trademark...its a sign that business is going on....i wanna see busy people walking on the streets not only on weekends but also weekdays! just as long as it is strategically planned so as not to transform long beach into an overcrowded place...anyway, i was in laguna beach the other day , and i was amazed with the upscale stores that they have.. i was asking myself , whats the most upscale store that we see in pine avenue ? z gallery ? on the other hand, i have a very nice idea...if only that white building along pine avenue could be renovated with some classy stores in it plus a great facade, it would be a great focal point for downtown long beach as it is near ocean boulevard and it is going downhill! plus the fact that it would somehow be the link between pike and pine ..I was hoping that that century old ad about edgewater condos will be finally torn down.....edgewater condos will draw more people into the area....just cant wait to start shopping in long beach so much so that i dont have to go to third st in santa monica anymore....

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Another mall is the last thing DTLB needs. Long Beach Plaza ruined Downtown.

Believe it or not, City Place (which replaced Long Beach Plaza) is a vast improvement. At least it is not one massive slab (even if the current tenants are somewhat ghetto). The Pike, on the other hand, is pretty horrible.

The city needs to focus on fixing the basics (like making the area more walkable) and not on building another mall.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I will concur with drisee, that regardless of whether my friend saw real cholos/gangbangers or just people that looked like them, the bottom line is, there's an unpleasant element that downtown Long Beach has yet to completely shake.

'Unpleasant' is in the eye of the beholder.

Downtown Long Beach attracts lots of blue-collar blacks and Mexicans (and other immigrants). This reflects the fact that Downtown Long Beach is accessible to places where these people live. The Blue Line is a big part of this.

Pasadena and Santa Monica are fundamentally different: there are large wealthy populations nearby. Downtown Long Beach currently is surrounded by industry, as well as neighborhoods filled with artists and blue-collar families. It also has its share of homeless.

The demographics are changing, however slowly. As the high-rises go up, so will the area become more wealthy, and probably more white.

[sopas ej]

double post... oops (why does it keep doing that?)

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by drisee

wow, this has gotten out of hand...

...The biggest point that Sopas EJ and i are trying to make (sorry to speak for you sopas) is that people gain an impression of downtown based upon what they see...

No need to apologize. I'm glad you said what you did, because I am in full agreement. I like downtown Long Beach, it has some nice old architecture and some nice newer developments too. But surely most everyone agrees that it still has a way to go before it develops that certain cachet Old Town Pasadena and Third St. Promenade in Santa Monica have. I think downtown Long Beach has great potential for that.

And regarding the "unpleasantness" that one experiences in downtown Long Beach, it's not just the "gangster"-looking people, it's also other things, like homeless people, and just the behaviors of a certain demographic. I know that downtown Long Beach is surrounded by lower-income neighborhoods, which is fine, but many of you must have also observed that people from these neighborhoods can behave in an annoying or off-putting way. Example, I don't go to movie theaters where I know I'm going to be surrounded by people who talk at the screen during the movie, or people who bring their very young children or infants with them to an R-rated film and then allow their children to cry or make a lot of noise (hehe that's why I love going to the ArcLight Cinemas). So drisee I know what you mean when you say you don't see too many "classy" types walking around in downtown LB.

I think if more moderate and upper-income people move into downtown Long Beach and in adjacent areas, downtown Long Beach will become a more pleasant place to be. To me, "diverse population" also means diverse in the socio-economic sense.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist

Another mall is the last thing DTLB needs. Long Beach Plaza ruined Downtown.

Believe it or not, City Place (which replaced Long Beach Plaza) is a vast improvement. At least it is not one massive slab (even if the current tenants are somewhat ghetto). The Pike, on the other hand, is pretty horrible.

The city needs to focus on fixing the basics (like making the area more walkable) and not on building another mall.

Yes, Long Beach Plaza did indeed ruin downtown LB. And I agree that City Place is a much better replacement. I haven't really explored City Place, but I like that it extended the street grid of downtown, which Long Beach Plaza had walled off. I am disappointed with the tenants of City Place... again, not that I've walked around it, but I don't think a WalMart was a good choice, I imagine shopping carts being left on sidewalks and/or being stolen by homeless. Is that a problem there, I wonder?

'Unpleasant' is in the eye of the beholder.

Downtown Long Beach attracts lots of blue-collar blacks and Mexicans (and other immigrants). This reflects the fact that Downtown Long Beach is accessible to places where these people live. The Blue Line is a big part of this.

Pasadena and Santa Monica are fundamentally different: there are large wealthy populations nearby. Downtown Long Beach currently is surrounded by industry, as well as neighborhoods filled with artists and blue-collar families. It also has its share of homeless.

The demographics are changing, however slowly. As the high-rises go up, so will the area become more wealthy, and probably more white.

Yeah, I kinda already addressed this in my post to drisee. I think if more moderate and higher-income people move into downtown Long Beach and adjacent areas, it'll create a more pleasant environment.

[lbguymetro]

and when you see upper class moving towards the area, people will be more conscious of what they wear and how they act...

[drisee]

Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist

Another mall is the last thing DTLB needs. Long Beach Plaza ruined Downtown.

Believe it or not, City Place (which replaced Long Beach Plaza) is a vast improvement. At least it is not one massive slab (even if the current tenants are somewhat ghetto). The Pike, on the other hand, is pretty horrible.

The city needs to focus on fixing the basics (like making the area more walkable) and not on building another mall.

I wasn't living in the area during the long beach plaza days but i'll take your word for it. What i don't like about city place is that it disrupted the street grid. they had to curve 4th street, which i think is strange. that whole development has a slew of fundamental flaws. sucks to think that we'll be stuck with walmart for a long long time.

I love your comment about focusing on the basics, so happy to see someone else say that. they focus on all the big shit but if they would just focus on the small more organic improvements it would start slowly but surely sending the right message without having to wait forever for the big ticket items to come into play.

[ChrisLA]

4th Street doesn't curve, 5th does. Before City Place was built you couldn't even get through from Pine Avenue over to Long Beach Blvd because of the mall. The only option was through 6th, or 3rd Street.

Walmart actually wasn't welcomed and many of the local residents had a big concern about them coming in. But apparently they convince the locals this one would be different, but as we see its the same old Walmart. Many of the residents had perferred something like a Macy's and or Target instead. But when these types of retail aren't interested, all of the developer is interested in doing is filling those spaces, so we ended up with what we now have.

Also CityPlace was not built as a complex for attracting outsiders as was supposely The Pike. It was geared for the locals to shop, and thats its. I do like the how the apartments are set up along Pine Avenue, but it look like they are having some problems getting retail on the bottom floors. In some ways there isn't much they can do if the retail we want don't show any interest. Unfortunetly the developers are in this to make money, and do you think they really care who fills those empty spots?

[yibs]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I don't know why you're getting your panties all up in a bunch. I never said anything about banning anyone from anywhere. Living in an urban environment doesn't and shouldn't necessarily mean having to put up with, in your words, urban grit, however you define that. And you're missing the point; not all Hispanics are cholos, nor do all Hispanics LOOK like cholos. But don't you see how if you see a bunch of people who look like cholos or gangbangers or whatever, that might put some people off? And if these people who look like that are just like everyone else, why don't you see people who look like that, in Belmont Shore?

In belmont you get the drunk college crowd. In downtown where i live closer too, you get more of the gangbanger/crazy homeless type. Sometimes people forget there's a mental institution in the middle of downtown. And there allowed to come and go as they please. If i had to pick, i would take the drunk college crowd. The pike is what it is. I sometimes see the wannabe thugs walking around with there overly big pants down at there knees. Talking in jibberish that i sure can't understand. And sometimes i see nicer people walking around. I have never really been anywhere in downtown when i didn't see a few homeless people or more depending on if you go more west. The amount of empty store shops is just crazy. Nobody can afford the rent. There are shops that left pine ave for 2nd st in belmont. More foot traffic and higher class consumers are on 2nd st. Long Beach is not going to be Santa Monica, and will never be like Laguna. I think having a beautiful beach would do alot to bring in more high class retail. Higher class people are needed here to make it great, but what would attract a more wealthy person to live here? If your wealthy, you probably live somewhere nicer with awesome retail and a beautiful beach.

[lbguymetro]

im not sure if long beach will ever be like santa monica and laguna but its something that you can definitely flaunt at this time because it has great attractions as well...it wont be like santa monica and laguna but it has its own identity..and class...!!!..dont forget queen mary, aquarium of the pacific, the rainbow harbor...people do get surprised how beautiful long beach is and i think that it looks fantastic at night...the only missing element maybe the retail but it does not mean that long beach cant compete with other beaches....long beach has a bigger downtown and has blue line...and of course long beach is way, way more famous than other beaches and has its own convention center which other beaches dont have! what about the historical villa riviera and the wide stretch of ocean boulevard? visitors who dont think of retails will definitely see long beach as one of the best attractions in LA county because we have world class displays...and if in case upscale retail does not happen in long beach, so what ? thats why its long beach and that makes it unique..the diversity !!! its way nice at this time and although its hard, ill just have to rest my case then and love long beach the way it is now...but i guess a lot of things is in store for long beach and im very optimistic about its future! thats why i started to live here....

[yibs]

Originally Posted by lbguymetro

im not sure if long beach will ever be like santa monica and laguna but its something that you can definitely flaunt at this time because it has great attractions as well...it wont be like santa monica and laguna but it has its own identity..and class...!!!..dont forget queen mary, aquarium of the pacific, the rainbow harbor...people do get surprised how beautiful long beach is and i think that it looks fantastic at night...the only missing element maybe the retail but it does not mean that long beach cant compete with other beaches....long beach has a bigger downtown and has blue line...and of course long beach is way, way more famous than other beaches and has its own convention center which other beaches dont have! what about the historical villa riviera and the wide stretch of ocean boulevard? visitors who dont think of retails will definitely see long beach as one of the best attractions in LA county because we have world class displays...and if in case upscale retail does not happen in long beach, so what ? thats why its long beach and that makes it unique..the diversity !!! its way nice at this time and although its hard, ill just have to rest my case then and love long beach the way it is now...but i guess a lot of things is in store for long beach and im very optimistic about its future! thats why i started to live here....

I'm a member of the aquarium. It's nice at times. I would not call it world class. I think the catch a wave thing is a joke. Our beach can't really compare. We don't have waves. I have to see the bulldozers cleaning up the trash that washes up every few days. I sadly will not get in the water here, and i believe that is the majority point of view in the city. Oil islands are never a nice thing to see when you think about the ocean. The villa is great but that's not going to make somebody move here. There are still plenty of condo units for sale in buildings that already exist. We don't need more condos that nobody is going to buy. The queen mary is somewhat lame. I have been on the ship many times, but how many times can you do that? The ship needs a makeover too. I think there are beautiful aspects to the city, but that doesn't blind me from the bad. I don't think little mistakes happened. If you call the over 500 million spent on cityplace and the pike little then i don't know what to say. I have a book that shows long beach in its prime days. Long beach was famous at one time. At one time it was one of the most famous beaches in the nation. And having a bigger downtown and has nothing to do with how a beach is rated. San Diego has a beautiful downtown. And could you tell me about these world class displays here in long beach. The lbc will always be a little ghetto, and some happen to like it that way including my sister. But we still like it here, But it has many many years to go. The pike and cityplace set this city back so far, and it's a real shame. Same with the breakwater and 2 major rivers dumping trash right on our doorstep.

[yibs]

Also what visitor isn't going to care about nice retail? And you said if we don't get high end retail that is ok because we have diversity? Diversity in what? That is why we need some high end retail in downtown, because we don't have any. I could also think of a few beaches more famous than ours. Start with Huntington beach is world famous from surf competitions, bikini contests which my sister was in. lol

How about malibu and zuma? A beach and a downtown are different. Long Beach is one of the few unique places that has a downtown somewhat on the water, but really our downtown is not on the water. The convention center is cool, but that again is going going to make people spend money and buy a place. The tagger who shot and killed that kid on pine last year was just convicted. Violence is down from where it was in the early 90's around here, but it is still a big problem. A group of women were robbed a few months ago right below the aqua on seaside way. I don't like walking there at night, because it's dark, and easy for someone to hide and do something. They should put some police down there. All in all this debate could go forever.

[lbguymetro]

its your personal opinion and of course, this argument can go on forever...i do believe that downtown long beach has its flaws but im counting on the good stuff that i find nice in this place....i lived in LA for 3 years but found long beach to be a better choice than downtown LA...as what ive said, any guest ive had appreciates what long beach has to offer..maybe we are expecting too much because we live here...and cant see the positive details...cityplace is a disaster ...but i do really enjoy jogging on the shoreline...and take the bike path in the afternoon just minutes from my building...disneyland is a world class destination but i didnt go back after ive been there so is queen mary...long beach attractions are for tourists...crimes can happen anywhere even in the most upscale neighborhood...condos abound in this city but hey san diego has its problem about housing too...! well, maybe , being in ocean boulevard made me feel different as to how i see long beach...in the next posts, i hope that ill correspond to other people here who loves long beach overall the way it is now though they have some constructive criticisms to say.....it would be futile for me to respond further with comments from someone who have an overall negative perception towards this city ...thus the argument can go on forever...

[SantaCruzGuy]

I agree with you LB. I just moved down to Long Beach from Santa Cruz, CA "Surf City". Santa Cruz is a city full of middle class and upper-class citizens (I am only stating this to prove a point). In Santa Cruz we attracted tourists from the bay area, and those who pass through the city by PCH. SC is full of upper class rich folks, and the city overall opposed "high-end retail". SC is full of stores and attractions that are locally-owned, and often unique to only SC. That is what attracted all the tourists who came to visit. When I was looking for a home someone in this forum told me to take a look at Long Beach. I fell in love with Long Beach as soon as i saw its attractions. I did a lot of research, and not to put down all the cities you stated yibs, but LB is the 5th largest city in CA, and it must be for a reason. I am a little luckier than some when it comes to money... and not all rich people (like myself) enjoy high end stores. LB is waaaay more unique than those OC stores and buildings built in 3 months that you can find anywhere in the USA. The Queen Mary might be old, and downtown a little dirty, but who cares. We atleast have a unique city that is bigger and much more urban. Our water might not be clean, but at least we can say we have a beach. If LB was horrible...then why would people like me move here? (again I'm not bragging that I have $$, but I am proving my point). Laguna and Huntington Beach, etc. might be nice, but I must say it is pretty fake. I can find all those stores in Santa Barbara or Beverly Hills. Been there done that. Eh. <yawns> Hey...Have you been to SF? That city is very dirty and full of homeless people, but it is still a good city and must have waaaaaay more tourism than the OC combined. I bet they have atleast ten times more tourists than Laguna Beach... What does Laguna Beach have? A fake Mtv show that was cancelled! Do not put down a city. If you do not like it...move and stay quiet. I love it, and we do not need haters to talk-down a great city. Move to the OC or Santa Monica and be happy. I am happy here, and others are too. We love LB and we are proud to call it home.