GO/VIA Transit

[NortheastWind]

Ontario Delivers Historic Weekday GO Train Service to Niagara Falls
New Morning and Evening Train Service Will Start Four Years Ahead of Schedule
December 14, 2018 11:00 A.M.Ministry of Transportation
ST. CATHARINES — Ontario's Government for the People continues to deliver on its promise to get people moving faster by adding regular weekday GO train service to Niagara Falls and St. Catharines for the first time.

Today, Jeff Yurek, Minister of Transportation, Kinga Surma, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Transportation, Sam Oosterhoff, MPP Niagara West, along with Leslie Woo, Chief Planning and Development Officer, Metrolinx, visited the rail station in St. Catharines to announce that the government will introduce long-asked-for weekday GO train service to Niagara Falls and St. Catharines on the Lakeshore West line.

“Our government is keeping our promise to get people moving and make life better for everyone in Ontario by expanding GO train service to Niagara Falls,” said Yurek. “We are working with our railway partner, CN, to use the existing rail infrastructure to expand GO Transit service for people in Niagara Falls and St. Catharines four years sooner than promised.”

Beginning on January 7, 2019, people travelling by GO Transit between Niagara Falls and Toronto's Union Station will benefit from a new morning trip with an evening return every weekday. The morning train that currently starts from West Harbour station in Hamilton at 6:39 a.m. will now start in Niagara Falls at 5:19 a.m., stopping at St. Catharines before continuing on to Toronto. In the evening, the existing train from Union Station at 5:15 p.m. to West Harbour will continue on to serve St. Catharines and Niagara Falls.

“This is great news for people in Niagara Region,” said Oosterhoff. “Weekday GO train service between Niagara Falls and Toronto will help connect the region and create new business opportunities.”

“We are very excited to introduce this essential commuter rail service to this market. Regular weekday GO trains have never operated out of Niagara Falls or St. Catharines before,” said Leslie Woo, Chief Planning and Development Officer of Metrolinx. “This is new territory and a sign of more great things to come.”

“Today's announcement is a demonstration of our commitment to improving the transportation experience and getting people moving. We make every decision with the customer – the Ontario taxpayer – in mind. Our Government for the People looks forward to continuing to provide better transportation across the province,” said Yurek.

[drpgq]

Glad it is finally happening, but that's one long commute from Toronto. I'm curious if many people will take it to Hamilton from Niagara. Although 1 hour and 20 minutes from Niagara to Hamilton is also pretty long.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by drpgq

Glad it is finally happening, but that's one long commute from Toronto. I'm curious if many people will take it to Hamilton from Niagara. Although 1 hour and 20 minutes from Niagara to Hamilton is also pretty long.

That's crazy let's just take Hamilton for example....

Honestly if your only goal is to avoid traffic on the QEW and save time taking the GO is NOT the answer! Even on an heavy traffic day it would take you less time to drive from Niagara to Hamilton than it would to take the GO. Now if you don't own a car it's another option to get somewhere so there is benefit to this service but time savings is not one of them!

Now if you are commuting from Niagara to Toronto daily whether it's by car or GO that's just crazy that's 8+hrs of work and potentially up to 2.5-3hrs of transportation EACH WAY no matter the method you take! You're literally spending all your free time outside your home with the exception of your sleep!

It's bad enough getting to Toronto from Hamilton I couldn't imagine doing it from Niagara on the daily!

The fact that it's almost 2019 and we do not have a super regional high speed rail network connecting all the major cities/hubs in this province is just sad and embarrassing!

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by StEC

That's crazy let's just take Hamilton for example....

Honestly if your only goal is to avoid traffic on the QEW and save time taking the GO is NOT the answer! Even on an heavy traffic day it would take you less time to drive from Niagara to Hamilton than it would to take the GO. Now if you don't own a car it's another option to get somewhere so there is benefit to this service but time savings is not one of them!

Now if you are commuting from Niagara to Toronto daily whether it's by car or GO that's just crazy that's 8+hrs of work and potentially up to 2.5-3hrs of transportation EACH WAY no matter the method you take! You're literally spending all your free time outside your home with the exception of your sleep!

It's bad enough getting to Toronto from Hamilton I couldn't imagine doing it from Niagara on the daily!

The fact that it's almost 2019 and we do not have a super regional high speed rail network connecting all the major cities/hubs in this province is just sad and embarrassing!

I personally think they should expand the Niagara Go Service to Hamilton and push for Hamilton downtown as a secondary to Toronto employment centre. The current Go Train schedule makes no sense for someone working in Hamilton. I could see taking it over driving if it was similar time as driving is stress for a lot of people.

[Berklon]

I really hope they monitor how many people use the GO to/and from Niagara.

On paper it sounds like a good idea, but I suspect the numbers will be embarrassingly low and they'll eventually cancel it because it's jut not cost-effective in any way.

[LRTfan]

Originally Posted by StEC

That's crazy let's just take Hamilton for example....

Honestly if your only goal is to avoid traffic on the QEW and save time taking the GO is NOT the answer! Even on an heavy traffic day it would take you less time to drive from Niagara to Hamilton than it would to take the GO. Now if you don't own a car it's another option to get somewhere so there is benefit to this service but time savings is not one of them!

Now if you are commuting from Niagara to Toronto daily whether it's by car or GO that's just crazy that's 8+hrs of work and potentially up to 2.5-3hrs of transportation EACH WAY no matter the method you take! You're literally spending all your free time outside your home with the exception of your sleep!

It's bad enough getting to Toronto from Hamilton I couldn't imagine doing it from Niagara on the daily!

The fact that it's almost 2019 and we do not have a super regional high speed rail network connecting all the major cities/hubs in this province is just sad and embarrassing!

Absolutely....how did we get so far behind? Look at the regional rail network in NYC, Boston, Montreal, Vancouver etc.... I've ridden the regional trains in Italy which is of course another level. You'd be a raving lunatic to even dream to going by car when the train is half the time and dirt cheap. Ontario is literally a backwater when it comes to non-car transport.

[RaginRonic]

Originally Posted by LRTfan

Absolutely....how did we get so far behind? Look at the regional rail network in NYC, Boston, Montreal, Vancouver etc.... I've ridden the regional trains in Italy which is of course another level. You'd be a raving lunatic to even dream to going by car when the train is half the time and dirt cheap. Ontario is literally a backwater when it comes to non-car transport.

Only because the auto and gas industries want to be in power forever, and not allow one single dollar to leave their pockets, unless public transit expands to make only them money.

If public transit grew at the eternal expense of those 2 industries, I wouldn't care one bit if their owners lost everything they owned in the process.

Their punishment for forcing everyone else, outside their social circle, to live in their fantasy dreamworld at gunpoint, with that gun going off if any noise of evolution is made.

= P

[drpgq]

I'm wondering why it is so slow between Hamilton and St. Catharine's. From what I've read they have to back in for now, so I guess that's a part of it. But with no stops right now between St Catharine's shouldn't they be able to go pretty fast in a lot of parts? What's the top speed of a GO train?

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I'm wondering why it is so slow between Hamilton and St. Catharine's. From what I've read they have to back in for now, so I guess that's a part of it. But with no stops right now between St Catharine's shouldn't they be able to go pretty fast in a lot of parts? What's the top speed of a GO train?

Top speed of the train is pretty fast, it's the tracks most likely that aren't rated for high speeds. The Go Train can easily hit 150km/h but most of the rails are rated for frieght speeds which is normally below 70km/h.

Leaving Niagara at 5:20AM and getting into West Harbour at 6:40AM means it's obviously going below 100km/h

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Top speed of the train is pretty fast, it's the tracks most likely that aren't rated for high speeds. The Go Train can easily hit 150km/h but most of the rails are rated for frieght speeds which is normally below 70km/h.

Leaving Niagara at 5:20AM and getting into West Harbour at 6:40AM means it's obviously going below 100km/h

I seem to recall an article discussed here that during the Pan Am games, some special direct train from Union made it to Hamilton with no stops in less than 40 minutes. Are the CN tracks from Hamilton to Niagara different?

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I seem to recall an article discussed here that during the Pan Am games, some special direct train from Union made it to Hamilton with no stops in less than 40 minutes. Are the CN tracks from Hamilton to Niagara different?

Hamilton Go Centre to Union is 70 km. So they would need to average 105km/h to get there in 40 minutes. I know the rails along the Lakeshore West route have been significantly upgraded over the years, where as Hamilton to Niagara have been essentially only freight for decades.

Further, the rails Burlington to Union are owned by Metrolinx beside a CN rail, where as Aldershot to Niagara are all owned by CN. As far as I am aware.

[Jon Dalton]

There were VIA trains from Aldershot to Niagara Falls until a few years ago, and the Amtrak train from New York still runs that same route. Were those trains that slow? That seems really, really slow, even for a GO train.

Looking at the Niagara seasonal GO service it was 1:24 from Burlington to Niagara Falls with a stop at St. Catharines. Knowing the travel time between Aldershot and Hamilton is about 15 minutes, that train would appear to take only a bit more than 1 hour between West Harbour and Niagara Falls.
https://www.gotransit.com/static_fil...18_revised.pdf

[matt602]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

There were VIA trains from Aldershot to Niagara Falls until a few years ago, and the Amtrak train from New York still runs that same route. Were those trains that slow? That seems really, really slow, even for a GO train.

Looking at the Niagara seasonal GO service it was 1:24 from Burlington to Niagara Falls with a stop at St. Catharines. Knowing the travel time between Aldershot and Hamilton is about 15 minutes, that train would appear to take only a bit more than 1 hour between West Harbour and Niagara Falls.
https://www.gotransit.com/static_fil...18_revised.pdf

At least half an hour of that time would have been taken just getting from Bayview Junction (just after Aldershot station) through Stuart Street yard and Central Hamilton. I don't think the GO trains move any faster than about 40mph through that entire section and it'll take even longer when the West Harbour station is added with the reverse movement.

Even still, GO trains do seem to move through there a lot slower than the Amtrak Maple Leaf does. Could be a lower priority thing.

[NortheastWind]

The Amtrak schedule shows it takes almost 2 hours from Niagara Falls to Toronto, with obviously no stop in Hamilton. Let's hope that changes.

[IMG]

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by NortheastWind

The Amtrak schedule shows it takes almost 2 hours from Niagara Falls to Toronto, with obviously no stop in Hamilton. Let's hope that changes.

[IMG]

Driving it with no traffic is about 1.5 hours so that's not too bad. With traffic it says it can take 2.3 hours driving. So really, if you work in Toronto at 8am and live in Niagara, it will only take you an extra 10-15 minutes to take Go. If priced right it may even be worth it, and if they can increase the speed to the Amtrak times then they're golden.

[thistleclub]

In November 2010, Metrolinx consultants R.J Burnside suggested a Niagara Falls-Toronto GO Train trip of 2.5 hours.

The same report pegged VIA Rail's Niagara Falls-Toronto travel time at just under two hours (though some trips can take 3.5 hours). VIA's fares start at $25 one-way for that service.

Amtrak can apparently get from Niagara Falls NY to Toronto ON in roughly 2 hours (omitting the layover in Niagara Falls, ON), with fares starting around $52 USD ($70 CAD) one-way.

Hamilton lost its VIA station in the spring of 1992, shortly before the James North CN Station closed. Station spacing seems to eliminate the possibility of a Hamilton VIA/Amtrak stop unless the city can pilfer the runs from either Aldershot or Grimsby.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I seem to recall an article discussed here that during the Pan Am games, some special direct train from Union made it to Hamilton with no stops in less than 40 minutes. Are the CN tracks from Hamilton to Niagara different?

Just as roads are built for different maximum speeds (not always the same as the speed limit on the road), tracks are divided into different classes, each with different maximum speeds for both freight and passenger trains. Transport Canada defines 5 different classes of track (shown here) which mirror the classes of track defined by the FRA. The FRA has higher classes of track, but we don't have any in Canada (yet).

My guess is the entire lakeshore (being CN's mainline) is all class 5 (I know it is east of Toronto), thus rated for 95mph for passenger trains (100mph LRC). South of Hamilton, my guess is that it is class 3 track (60mph or 96 km/h for passenger trains).

There is nothing wrong with Class 3 track, it is just means trains must travel shower. Upgrading to class 4 or 5 track would cost money and probably not worth it for trial. I am sure they have a model they can use to predict how much the usage would increase if they decrease travel time and thus do a cost/benifit analysis.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My guess is the entire lakeshore (being CN's mainline) is all class 5 (I know it is east of Toronto), thus rated for 95mph for passenger trains (100mph LRC). South of Hamilton, my guess is that it is class 3 track (60mph or 96 km/h for passenger trains).

There is nothing wrong with Class 3 track, it is just means trains must travel slower. Upgrading to class 4 or 5 track would cost money and probably not worth it for trial. I am sure they have a model they can use to predict how much the usage would increase if they decrease travel time and thus do a cost/benefit analysis.

The current rail configuration also includes practical impediments to travelling at top speed. Such as crossovers.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

The current rail configuration also includes practical impediments to travelling at top speed. Such as crossovers.

There are several solutions to that problem. First of all, keeping through trains traveling at speed on the same track avoids the crossover alltogether. For when a train does need to change tracks, the crossover can be made longer (with larger switches) to allow it to be done at a higher speed. Looking at the photo in the linked article, those are pretty short crossovers, and hence the need for "trains on this stretch in Burlington" to "slow to 24 kilometres per hour from 129 km/h" when changing tracks. Obviously those crossovers were designed with the assumption that trains using them would be traveling slowly in the first place.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by roger1818

There are several solutions to that problem. First of all, keeping through trains traveling at speed on the same track avoids the crossover alltogether. For when a train does need to change tracks, the crossover can be made longer (with larger switches) to allow it to be done at a higher speed. Looking at the photo in the linked article, those are pretty short crossovers, and hence the need for "trains on this stretch in Burlington" to "slow to 24 kilometres per hour from 129 km/h" when changing tracks. Obviously those crossovers were designed with the assumption that trains using them would be traveling slowly in the first place.

Entirely so. If every train had its own track, it would be less of an issue.

Given that VIA train 92 had travelled just 2km from its Aldershot stop, it's remarkable that it made it to 108 km/h.

It's obviously a tricky spot, since it saw a derailment a few years earlier. And VIA seems to acknowledge as much.