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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
I guess I could say I'm pretty geographically siloed. Outside of traveling and stuff, probably 90% of my life these days happens within the red circle. And like 60% still (if I had to put a number to it) within the smaller orange circle.

That's sooo small! (It's cool that you can make it work, though.)

If I wanted to draw even only a "50% of my life" circle these years, it would go from Mtl to Quebec City to the southeastern corner of the Townships (slightly more than that, as it would include a little bit of NH).

I'm aware I'm more mobile/nomadic than average, but the other extreme always fascinates me - say, that guy who without exaggerating claimed to not have been north of Bloor in over a decade.
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 1:48 PM
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Probably doesn't hurt that you also live in one of the most upper-middle class parts of the most upper-middle class metro in the country!
Yes to the latter but no to the former.

If you live on the Gatineau side low-brow areas are never that far away, and while my immediate neighbourhood is definitely upper middle class, there is social housing one km or less from us, and quite large, solidly working class areas not much further away.

Within 2, 3 and 4 km radii from my house, working class populations are likely in the majority.

On the Quebec side of the river we don't have gigantic areas of 100,000+ people that are almost all at least middle and often upper middle class like Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 1:55 PM
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I guess I could say I'm pretty geographically siloed. Outside of traveling and stuff, probably 90% of my life these days happens within the red circle. And like 60% still (if I had to put a number to it) within the smaller orange circle.

The red area is about 40 sqkm and home to maybe 400-450,000 or so people. The orange area is about 5 sqkm with a population of around 50,000 people (though, as the cultural & commercial heart of the city a whole lot more than that pass through on a daily basis of course). I grew up in North York and used to travel pretty extensively through the GTA so I still have an idea of the goings-on "out there", but my current experiences & mental map of the city are predominantly shaped by this admittedly unrepresentative slice of the city:

So you could move to Halifax and it wouldn't change much for you?

Just joking...
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 1:56 PM
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That's sooo small! (It's cool that you can make it work, though.)

I'm aware I'm more mobile/nomadic than average, but the other extreme always fascinates me - say, that guy who without exaggerating claimed to not have been north of Bloor in over a decade.
Wow! I could never do that. My life in the Navy has sent me far afield and I have met and made friends with so many divergent and interesting people. The only drawback to my life is that I have been unable (or unwilling?) to set any deep roots in a community.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 1:59 PM
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I think a lot of people do that. I was at the Toronto Eaton Centre yesterday and it struck me how the vast majority of people were from the same demographic. There was a complete absence of socially upper middle class/upper class people. They avoid this place like the plague.

It's well known amongst downtown folk that the demographic changes considerably around the Eaton Centre and north to about College. I only go down there when I have to; they're not people I have much in common with. In contrast, I feel instantly at ease when I'm on Bayview Avenue, bits of King West, and the Distillery (preferably week days).

As with the Eaton Centre I find the people at Yorkdale off putting. Most are monied but with few social graces to speak of. Crude, uncultured, aggressive people in expensive clothes ....to put it politely. You'd think that being exposed to people like this the last 15-20 years would make me accustomed to them but I find myself even more uncomfortable around that demographic than I was when I was a kid. In other words, the circles I travel in are becoming more rigid and narrow the older I get.

I should add one point. I've always found that adage that the social classes don't mix repugnant; it's not how I was raised. I'm kind, respectful, and courteous to everyone and open to befriending anyone regardless of how much money they have or where they come from. To my dismay I just don't have much common ground with these people. It's not like I didn't try. My last 2 boyfriends were working class but both relationships ran there predictable course. I'm definitely 'siloed'.
I found this post really interesting.

I think this is part of a wider trend in society. People talk diversity a lot but in the end a lot of us probably like to mostly be with people who are similar to us.

So it's diversity-diversity-diversity on the surface, but when it comes to actual behaviour we might be segregating as much or more than we ever have. Think of Christian dating sites or conservative baseball leagues in the U.S...

I don't really think it's about age and I certainly don't think it's just about you.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS View Post
In the sense of "siloed", I'm not very diverse. A lot of my friends are working or middle class, or have that sort of upbringing, and the same would apply for my work-friends. My family is comfortably working to middle class, and this is reflected by where they live, in Southern to Central Ontario. I used to be more diverse in where I went across the GTA, but I rarely go past the Toronto border anymore, I find more comfort being with folks who share my interests and have ambitions, and I don't mind where they came from, although most of my friends are Caucasian like myself.
That's interesting, given that you live in Toronto.

It caused me to reflect on my wider entourage and strangely enough it largely mirrors the demographics of my city.

It's massively (85%?) old stock French Canadians, with a sprinkling of bilingual Anglo-Quebecers, people of Portuguese descent who can pass seamlessly for Québécois francophones, with some black friends divided fairly evenly between Haitians (generally linguistically seamless too) and sub-Saharan Africans - more recently arrived but still well integrated but with the ways of Africa still present. And of course some people from the Arab world too - predominantly Christian Lebanese but also a few Muslim North Africans. Oh yeah, and some Slavic people who fled central Europe after the collapse of the Iron Curtain.

If you looked at the Stats Canada profile for where I live, these would be the top groups represented.

And no, I did not plan this. It just happened that way via our neighbour and work relationships, and our kids' friends.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:05 PM
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What prompted this thread was the sudden realization that I've sort of done what I've always found frivolous or amusing in others: consciously choosing a service due to feeling more comfortable with the provider.

A long time ago I recall an aunt complaining vociferously about how off-putting her dentist's personality was because he didn't engage in social niceties like asking about how her day. He made the interaction seem like a "conveyor belt." To me, I thought this was funny. If he does a good job, then who cares?

Well, it turns out that I seem to care. At least a bit.

My doctor is a millennial, and I'm happier with her than with the older doctor that she replaced when he retired. Even so, I think there is something about the age thing going on with me. It has to do with my "station in life," I guess. I'm in a gentrified downtown neighbourhood without too many kids around. Kids naturally take up a lot of time and headspace, so it's probably not as likely for a quick hello on the street to turn into a half-hour conversation on the porch when you're coming home from soccer practice.

But that happens regularly here, where the neighbours are in their fifties, sixties and seventies. We really let loose with the jokes, the innuendo and the teasing. Good "craic," as the Irish say. I'm now fifty-two, and I've noticed how incredibly easy my interactions are with older folks. The general lack of pretension once you get past your forties, the lack of insecurity about how you measure up in society or make your place, comes as a relief. You have to accept who you are and who you've become, because otherwise the bitterness and regret would be toxic.

Which is not to say that I avoid people below me in age. I like playing basketball with high school kids at the Y. It's great fun. I do care about the young folks. It's just that I care about the old folks, too. Maybe even a bit more.

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I think I may always have been atypical in terms of age-sensitivity. In my youth I was the elementary school aged-kid who wanted to sit at the adults' table to discuss the upcoming elections or the Iranian hostage crisis.

Today I am often surrounded by teens and always chat with them about all and sundry (can you say that in English in this context? it sounded good) whereas my kids tell me that when they go to their friends' places the parents (especially dads) generally ignore them except for the requisite hello.

So I try to make the best of what each generation has to offer, and I try to remain self-aware that our generation (I am just a few years younger than you) has its quirks that can probably be irksome to others too.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think I may always have been atypical in terms of age-sensitivity. In my youth I was the elementary school aged-kid who wanted to sit at the adults' table to discuss the upcoming elections or the Iranian hostage crisis.

Today I am often surrounded by teens and always chat with them about all and sundry ([I]can you say that in English in this context? it sounded good[/I]) whereas my kids tell me that when they go to their friends' places the parents (especially dads) generally ignore them except for the requisite hello.

So I try to make the best of what each generation has to offer, and I try to remain self-aware that our generation (I am just a few years younger than you) has its quirks that can probably be irksome to others too.
Kinda sorta - it refers to people rather than things, but nobody would be confused about your meaning. Unless you actually mean that you gossip about people with teenagers, in which case it's bang on.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:16 PM
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Kinda sorta - it refers to people rather than things, but nobody would be confused about your meaning. Unless you actually mean that you gossip about people with teenagers, in which case it's bang on.
That and other stuff!
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:36 PM
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It seems like people with kids tend to hang out with other people with kids and schooling along with a desire to keep up an ideal peer group tends to sort people into socio-economic silos.

If you are gay there's a whole other set of factors. Most gay male couples do not have kids, and many spend less time around couples with kids or around straight couples. In a larger city it's easy to get siloed off and be around ~90% gay people (or some more specific subgroup) even though they are a small percentage of the overall population. The cultural norms in the gay community are also pretty different (e.g. 2 males much more affectionate with each other, even if it's not sexual, more like 2 females might be in wider society) so once you get used to them it's easy to feel like you cannot be "yourself" in other social settings.

On top of this when you're gay there's a bigger risk some people will be judgemental or even outwardly hostile so interacting closely with random others is higher risk. It's much lower risk than it used to be but it doesn't take much to push people away. As an anecdote that illustrates this, a gay friend told me a story about how some neighbours moved into his building from another country recently. They asked him to come over and answer questions about some basics in terms of getting settled in the city. Everything was 100% friendly but they kept asking him about his wife and they had a giant crucifix up on the wall. He eventually felt uncomfortable and didn't explain that he actually has a husband (well, sort of tried, but they didn't get it or didn't want to get it). If he were straight, he would have integrated more easily into that situation.

Cultural background has an impact on this too. The Canadian-born gay guys with Canadian parents tend to have few family issues and just go do whatever. Europeans are similar. Chinese often have somewhat clueless or judgemental parents (similar to 1980's North America, but maybe with more you-have-to-uphold-your-family-duties type stuff) but not very hostile. Indian and Middle Eastern gay guys are unfortunately more likely to have hostile parents and are often completely closeted, so they can be relatively underrepresented in public social settings.
My wife and I a have found it extremely challenging to maintain friendships with couples (very approximately) our age who've never had any kids.

It's not that we're those annoying parents who talk about their kids incessantly. We're actually very self-aware socially and almos intuitively adjust our conversation topics based on who we are with - we don't focus on Québécois comedy sketches if in the company of visiting Swedes, for example.

For example, we have a couple who are (or were) dear friends that we've effectively phased out - if we see them once every 3-5 years it's good. I mean, if you're sitting down with friends you've known for decades for 3-4 hours over dinner and drinks, and an hour and a half of that is about their fucking cat and all the adorable things she does, and then every time our kids are mentioned it lasts about 30 seconds before they switch the topic back to the cat or something else... that's not really a satisfying friendship for us.

BTW I don't have anything against pets as we have them and love them too.

But about my kids... they have 90-95% averages in top-10 private high schools, they're polite and accomplished both inside and outside the school milieu. One of them even just got invited to a humantarian project in Ethiopia with Craig Kielburger. (But won't be going.)

I won't rave about them endlessly with my childless friends, but surely they deserve more consideration than a goddamn cat.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:40 PM
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Ironically one of our more satisfying relationships with a childless couple was with two gay men. They just loved our kids and we as a family went to important events in their lives (like their wedding anniversary brunches) and they even showed up at some of our kids' activities to support them.

Sadly they went through a rather nasty breakup a few years ago and we pretty much lost touch with our favourite one of the two. (He kind of went through a predatory phase when he became single and while he never made a move towards me or did anything inappropriate, all of this made my wife a bit uncomfortable as he'd given off signs to her and me in the past that he thought I was hot. )
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:43 PM
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But that happens regularly here, where the neighbours are in their fifties, sixties and seventies. We really let loose with the jokes, the innuendo and the teasing. Good "craic," as the Irish say. I'm now fifty-two, and I've noticed how incredibly easy my interactions are with older folks. The general lack of pretension once you get past your forties, the lack of insecurity about how you measure up in society or make your place, comes as a relief. You have to accept who you are and who you've become, because otherwise the bitterness and regret would be toxic.
As I get older, the more I feel this way. I'm somewhat younger than yourself, but the more I know who I am and what I want, the less I let things upset me.

In a sense, I find life much easier now - I'm not chasing things I don't really want and not trying to live up to others' expectations of who I should be.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 3:56 PM
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Sadly they went through a rather nasty breakup a few years ago and we pretty much lost touch with our favourite one of the two. (He kind of went through a predatory phase when he became single and while he never made a move towards me or did anything inappropriate, all of this made my wife a bit uncomfortable as he'd given off signs to her and me in the past that he thought I was hot. )
OK, that'll be enough humblebragging!
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:00 PM
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OK, that'll be enough humblebragging!
It wasn't at all - honest.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:00 PM
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rednecks, nerds, conspiracy theorists, are usually the people i get along with as long as they are not mean, i dont care if they are crazy.

i dont live in the middle of no where now so im not around rednecks now
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:00 PM
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My wife and I a have found it extremely challenging to maintain friendships with couples (very approximately) our age who've never had any kids.

It's not that we're those annoying parents who talk about their kids incessantly. We're actually very self-aware socially and almos intuitively adjust our conversation topics based on who we are with - we don't focus on Québécois comedy sketches if in the company of visiting Swedes, for example.

For example, we have a couple who are (or were) dear friends that we've effectively phased out - if we see them once every 3-5 years it's good. I mean, if you're sitting down with friends you've known for decades for 3-4 hours over dinner and drinks, and an hour and a half of that is about their fucking cat and all the adorable things she does, and then every time our kids are mentioned it lasts about 30 seconds before they switch the topic back to the cat or something else... that's not really a satisfying friendship for us.

BTW I don't have anything against pets as we have them and love them too.

But about my kids... they have 90-95% averages in top-10 private high schools, they're polite and accomplished both inside and outside the school milieu. One of them even just got invited to a humantarian project in Ethiopia with Craig Kielburger. (But won't be going.)

I won't rave about them endlessly with my childless friends, but surely they deserve more consideration than a goddamn cat.
Some people have the tendency to really narrow their interests with age.

Certainly, children do that (and you're certainly cognizant of that) simply because they require time and effort that really eats into time that was formerly devoted to exploring your interests.

Then again, some people just like talking about themselves, or their cat. Even among other single people, it gets tiring to listen to.

One has to sort of retain a broader set of interests (or at least do a decent impression of caring about others' interests) in order to be a decent conversationalist.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:12 PM
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One has to sort of retain a broader set of interests (or at least do a decent impression of caring about others' interests) in order to be a decent conversationalist.
I don't think that will ever be a problem for me! (Risking another admonishment from esquire for bragging! )

Though my wife does say I have a tendency to wear out subjects... I-I-I'd just like to add one more possible permutation about the possible effects of Brexit on the relationship between Scotland, Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.... pleeeeeeeeeeease!
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:23 PM
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I don't think that will ever be a problem for me! (Risking another admonishment from esquire for bragging! )
I'm keeping an eye on you now



FWIW I also find it a bit difficult to maintain relationships with people (couples in particular) without kids. Not being judgmental, it's just that as anyone with kids knows, it's such a huge part of your life. It's a bit tough to bond with people who aren't in the same boat.

I would liken it a bit to being from a small town and being one of a few in your class to move to the big city and attend university, travel the world, etc. After that kind of experience it's tough to really connect the same way with the people back home who went right to work and never left, even if some of those people who stayed went on to become very successful in their own right. Maybe people in the military or police forces feel the same about others who've never served that way.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:23 PM
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i didnt see this was a canada thread, theres a lot of rednecks and conspiracy theorist here.
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:41 PM
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I'm keeping an eye on you now



.
Funny how I actually make that gesture all the time to the teens in my entourage!
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