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  #741  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 4:54 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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I agree; the whole point of Lansdowne sports is affordability for the masses.

On the phasing of Lansdowne, yes, the point if decoupling the arena and stadium was to build the new arena elsewhere on the site in order to keep the Civic Centre teams and events at Lansdowne. The Civic Centre will come down only after the new arena is complete.

I assume they will build temporary seating for football while the old stands come down and new ones are built.

If a new NHL Arena is built at LeBreton, the loss of the Civic Centre seating capacity may not be too detrimental from a City Building point if view. If the new central NHL Arena falls through, again, and we're left with only 5.5k at Lansdowne, then we have a major issue.
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  #742  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 5:34 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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How about this for an idea:

Have the city build a new 8,000 seat arena; with one or two ice sheets tucked under the seating along the sides (likely extending under parking); to replace the Tom Brown Arena.

This solves several issues: More ice is provided in that area, replacing the aged Tom Brown arena; It could compliment/jump-start an NHL arena across the road; It puts the new arena at the junction of two O-Train lines.

I would suggest that a tower, or two, could be built above the new arena complex to provide new housing (and help finance construction). Shadows from those towers would be predominently across the road and not onto private property.
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  #743  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 6:28 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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This would be a graphical representation (not to any scale) of what I have in mind:



The red ice sheets would be basic ‘community rinks’, while the blue area would house a larger arena (maybe 8,000 seats). All three could be used at any time. The fuchsia areas would house service areas (including dressing rooms, etc.). The Zamboni would travel between ice sheets through a corridor at the ends.
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  #744  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
Honestly, I think if you could replicate London's Budweiser Gardens there, it would be the perfect setup. 6500 seats main bowl, with 2500 more in an easily curtained off upper level, a level of suites. Looks surprisingly cozy with the upper level curtained off, and the original intent was doing that for the OHL, with the upper level being used for larger concerts, or NHL/NBA exhibition games. As it happens, the Knights haven't closed the upper level once in the 22 or so seasons they have played there.

The 67's have a long rich tradition and have benefited from very good fan support over the years. They have suffered in the recent past, part of which is probably the team on the ice, and part the venue. I'm not sure what happened 10 years ago to cause attendance to drop but it was on the way back up when covid threw a wrench in things. But after so many years of leading the league or close to it, in attendance, I think it would be a disservice to them to limit them to 5000 in a new building after only a short time of lower support.
What happened to them 10 years ago is that they were kicked out of Lansdowne for the redevelopment. Their attendance dropped to 2-3k in Kanata (in a too-big building) and it never came all the way back. That said, the days of 8-9k were actually relatively short lived in terms of the team’s history. Attendance had trended down before the move.

I don’t think the 5500 number is budget-related. I think it is where they see their sweet spot in terms of attendance. Yes London has consistently been closer to 9k, but they are an outlier in the OHL, and aren’t playing in a market with 2 pro teams. If Ottawa was to build a 9000-seat arena, it would be the only city in Canada to do that in addition to an NHL building. Even much bigger cities like Toronto and Montreal don’t have that (unless you count Place Bell in Laval, but that is for an AHL team in a much bigger population centre). I just don’t think it’s needed, nor would it be busy enough.

I do agree with JOTT13 that if the Sens arena falls through, it’s a different conversation.
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  #745  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 7:39 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
What happened to them 10 years ago is that they were kicked out of Lansdowne for the redevelopment. Their attendance dropped to 2-3k in Kanata (in a too-big building) and it never came all the way back. That said, the days of 8-9k were actually relatively short lived in terms of the team’s history. Attendance had trended down before the move.

I don’t think the 5500 number is budget-related. I think it is where they see their sweet spot in terms of attendance. Yes London has consistently been closer to 9k, but they are an outlier in the OHL, and aren’t playing in a market with 2 pro teams. If Ottawa was to build a 9000-seat arena, it would be the only city in Canada to do that in addition to an NHL building. Even much bigger cities like Toronto and Montreal don’t have that (unless you count Place Bell in Laval, but that is for an AHL team in a much bigger population centre). I just don’t think it’s needed, nor would it be busy enough.

I do agree with JOTT13 that if the Sens arena falls through, it’s a different conversation.
Do the 67s survive a downtown Sens? I went to a Sens game for $14 on Thursday. Whos paying $20 for junior hockey?
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  #746  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 7:56 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Do the 67s survive a downtown Sens? I went to a Sens game for $14 on Thursday. Whos paying $20 for junior hockey?
I think the idea is that $14 Sens tickets will be a thing of the past when the Sens move downtown. Sure there will always be last minute deals from desperate scalpers on apps like Gametime, but for families who need to plan these outings in advance that's not always feasible. Besides, at 5,500 seats you don't need to carve out a huge chunk of the hockey-craving market to sell out consistently. The OHL also has its own niche in terms of family-friendliness and being a good draw for old-timer hockey purists who want to see up and coming kids work hard and battle to reach the next level, rather than "overpaid millionaire divas" in the NHL.

Edit: I also just noticed that the 67s play home games almost exclusively from Fri-Sun. I think the Sens have sold out every weekend game this season with tickets being considerably more expensive than weeknights, even if you wait for last minute deals (last weekend home game I went to a couple weeks back, the cheapest tickets on Gametime were going for $60 USD two hours before puck drop). So in that sense, the 67s won't be competing with the Sens for weekend crowds, as they're at totally different price points.
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  #747  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2024, 8:35 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
I think the idea is that $14 Sens tickets will be a thing of the past when the Sens move downtown. Sure there will always be last minute deals from desperate scalpers on apps like Gametime, but for families who need to plan these outings in advance that's not always feasible. Besides, at 5,500 seats you don't need to carve out a huge chunk of the hockey-craving market to sell out consistently. The OHL also has its own niche in terms of family-friendliness and being a good draw for old-timer hockey purists who want to see up and coming kids work hard and battle to reach the next level, rather than "overpaid millionaire divas" in the NHL.

Edit: I also just noticed that the 67s play home games almost exclusively from Fri-Sun. I think the Sens have sold out every weekend game this season with tickets being considerably more expensive than weeknights, even if you wait for last minute deals (last weekend home game I went to a couple weeks back, the cheapest tickets on Gametime were going for $60 USD two hours before puck drop). So in that sense, the 67s won't be competing with the Sens for weekend crowds, as they're at totally different price points.
Yeah good point. The dirt cheap tickets are only during the week and frankly those games increase in desirability the most with a move downtown. Even suburbanites will stop by after work. $15 weekday for teams with no following are available all season long though. Gametime or tickpick with lower commissions have the lowest prices.
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  #748  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 4:29 AM
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Yeah good point. The dirt cheap tickets are only during the week and frankly those games increase in desirability the most with a move downtown. Even suburbanites will stop by after work. $15 weekday for teams with no following are available all season long though. Gametime or tickpick with lower commissions have the lowest prices.
I think that’s right. Also the tickets aren’t so comparable. Sens have cheap tickets for less desirable games, but they are on the ends in the third deck. There aren’t season tickets at that price. $25 gets you seats right by the ice for the 67s all season long.

I think there are lots of people who take that trade off. The 67s are good value by OHL standards, and they are the cheapest major sports team in town, unless you count the Titans. They should be okay.
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  #749  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 2:39 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I went to the Sens game last night, sold out because of McDavid. We talked and both of us concluded that a downtown arena will not be built in our lifetimes.

The 67s lost a lot as a result of Lansdowne 1.0. The 67s market liked the old Lansdowne parking lot, no matter what an eyesore it was. This was part of the trade-off of improving Lansdowne.

We will see if 2.0 improves things for the sports teams at Lansdowne. I am not so sure it will.
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  #750  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I went to the Sens game last night, sold out because of McDavid. We talked and both of us concluded that a downtown arena will not be built in our lifetimes.

The 67s lost a lot as a result of Lansdowne 1.0. The 67s market liked the old Lansdowne parking lot, no matter what an eyesore it was. This was part of the trade-off of improving Lansdowne.

We will see if 2.0 improves things for the sports teams at Lansdowne. I am not so sure it will.
You and McDavid talked? Very impressive. Didn't know that he had an opinion on Ottawa's arena!

The 67s dip in attendance was almost entirely due to the fact that they moved out of a central location to a spot that was a long way from their established fan base. Add that to the fact that they were playing in a building that was way too big, which killed the atmosphere. That is why the 2.0 plan gets the new arena done first, before closing the old one.

This year 67s attendance is generally between 4-5000, which is just fine for the OHL. That puts them in the top third of the league. We also know the PWHL team is doing extremely well. The laggard is the Blackjacks at 1900 per game. I think they need to get that up to closer to 3000 to be viable long term.
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  #751  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 3:52 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
You and McDavid talked? Very impressive. Didn't know that he had an opinion on Ottawa's arena!

The 67s dip in attendance was almost entirely due to the fact that they moved out of a central location to a spot that was a long way from their established fan base. Add that to the fact that they were playing in a building that was way too big, which killed the atmosphere. That is why the 2.0 plan gets the new arena done first, before closing the old one.

This year 67s attendance is generally between 4-5000, which is just fine for the OHL. That puts them in the top third of the league. We also know the PWHL team is doing extremely well. The laggard is the Blackjacks at 1900 per game. I think they need to get that up to closer to 3000 to be viable long term.
Good one! I guess my writing skills are even worse than normal
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  #752  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 4:24 PM
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Anyone know the parking numbers before and after the redevelopment? It can't be that different when you add the new parking garage on Third.
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  #753  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2024, 3:05 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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Maybe we need to put in a clause that does not permit bait and switch. ie. $15 million bond that the proposal is built to closely match the renders. To me, it looks like every party involved is interested in a ton of cost savings. I'm just really worried it'll get dumbed down with even more cost efficiencies and we'll end up with even less than we are currently anticipating...which is already less than initially proposed. Sorry, black hat! I feel Lansdowne is the place to push architectural design and am not sensing this will happen (at all).
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  #754  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2024, 6:34 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7156197

"There was little else in the budget earmarked for Ottawa capital projects — including Landsdowne 2.0 and the affordable housing units that are supposed to come with it.

Neil Saravanamuttoo, the Ottawa-based director of non-profit CityShapes, said there had been a request from the city for $20 million in provincial funding for the project.

"That's a disappointment for the people of Ottawa and it just means it'll be another $20 million that the taxpayers have to pick up," he said."
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  #755  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 2:10 PM
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Lansdowne 2.0 up for thorny vote that could define project
Vote on procurement model one of the last checkpoints $419M project will face at council

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Mar 31, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 6 hours ago




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ject-1.7159280

Last edited by rocketphish; Mar 31, 2024 at 2:21 PM.
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  #756  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 7:50 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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And attempting to rush through to avoid building code changes? Take the necessary time to get it right already.
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  #757  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:47 PM
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And attempting to rush through to avoid building code changes? Take the necessary time to get it right already.
My sense is that it really doesn’t have much to do with getting it “right”, as anything they design could be impacted by the new code, and they don’t know how. So other than waiting for the new code to come out before starting the design process, i don’t think there’s another option.
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  #758  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 1:29 AM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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Found the following about building code... didn't realize so extensive.

The biggest overhaul since its original introduction in 1975, the 2024 edition of the Ontario Building Code is anticipated to contain approximately 2,400 changes..

Probably a lot of them are tiny but will have to read up on it.
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  #759  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 1:39 AM
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I think the main goal of the update is to harmonize the Code with the National Building Code, but it sounds like the changes will go a bit further as there is some political direction to streamline the construction process to help get housing built faster. Not sure that will impact the arena, but possibly the residential component.
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  #760  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 11:31 AM
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You'd think they'd give a grace period for the new Building Code, something along the lines of "any major project (price tag here) where the design phase has already started is exempt up to 5 years after the code has been implemented".
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