Parkdale Collective [159-167 Parkdale Ave] | 96m | 31f | U/C

[Boxster]

I still do not understand all the hype created by these condos at the far end of Parkdale.

You are beside the Ottawa river however don't have access as it is unsafe.

Tunney's Pasture on one side and an industrial sector to the East does not help matters. Downtown is still far. Puts you kind of in the middle of nowhere!

For example, the VIU on the other hand is central but not surrounded by cement with close access to both downtowns, huge beautiful front yard (park) including marina.

Location is everything.

[McC]

is there a lot of hype? there's certainly controversy.

I don't roll in any real estate circles, so I don't know if there's much buzz there, or how the pre-sales are going at 99 Parkdale; but I haven't seen much marketing push for any of the 3 new towers. There have been multiple units for sale in the SOHO Parkway every time I've looked at the MLS map since it was built (currently shows 6 units for sale), and units in some of the older buildings on Parkdale and in Ottawa House on Hinchey can sit on the market for months. Established houses in Mechanicsville sell in no time, but the proposed new builds at the corner of Stonehurst and Lyndale have been going nowhere (I'd blame a relatively inexperienced developer, and poor price-to-product ratio for that). But I don't know if any of that will have much bearing on how these 3 towers might fare on the market: their height alone offers something pretty distinct, and I certainly don't think of Mecanicsville as the "middle of nowhere." I will grant that we are a bit of island amidst the Commuter Expressway, traffic sewers of Scott and Parkdale and the Bayview emptiness, but much of that should be much changed in ten years, and real estate is supposed to be a long game... all that to say not very much, I suppose.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by Boxster

I still do not understand all the hype created by these condos at the far end of Parkdale.

You are beside the Ottawa river however don't have access as it is unsafe.

Tunney's Pasture on one side and an industrial sector to the East does not help matters. Downtown is still far. Puts you kind of in the middle of nowhere!

For example, the VIU on the other hand is central but not surrounded by cement with close access to both downtowns, huge beautiful front yard (park) including marina.

Location is everything.

You must have been in the dark in the last little while - there are huge changes happening around Tunney's Pasture and Mechanicsville/Hintonburg area. Tunney's is getting revamped with less government buildings and more residential lots and even an extension to the Parkdale Market. Plus the LRT station will be minutes away.

But right now, if you take the Parkdale ramp onto the Ottawa River Parkway, you'll be downtown in less than 3 minutes (in a car), 10 minutes (on bike) and 20-25 minutes (on foot) - I would hardly call that far. If you travel the same length of time but go west instead, you are in the middle of Wellington Village/Westboro - not exactly the middle of nowhere. You're also a few minutes away from the Queensway.

You can access the River at Lemieux island, about a 5 minute walk from Lyndale and Parkdale - there's a traffic light to access it as well, so it's no more dangerous than crossing the Alexandra Bridge.

The VIU is a nice looking project, but I'm not sure how it's any better than anything on Parkdale. It happens to be in the highest taxed Province in Canada and not that much closer to downtown Ottawa than Parkdale - you still have to take public transit or car/bike if you want to avoid a lengthy walk. As for the neighbourhood, it's not all that different from Mechanicsville/Hintonburg - small-ish homes that need up-dating and some commercial lots sprinkled in there as well. Like the Mechanicsville/Hintonburg area, there is room for improvement.

You are right, location is everything, and based on the real estate growth in Ottawa compared to Gatineau/Hull, the preferred location of most buyers is Ottawa.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

is there a lot of hype? there's certainly controversy.

I don't roll in any real estate circles, so I don't know if there's much buss there, or how the pre-sales are going at 99 Parkdale; but I haven't seen much marketing push for any of the 3 new towers. There have been multiple units for sale in the SOHO Parkway every time I've looked at the MLS map since it was built (currently shows 6 units for sale), and units in some of the older buildings on Parkdale and in Ottawa House on Hinchey can sit on the market for months. Established houses in Mechanicsville sell in no time, but the proposed new builds at the corner of Stonehurst and Lyndale have been going nowhere (I'd blame a relatively inexperienced developer, and poor price-to-product ratio for that). But I don't know if any of that will have much bearing on how these 3 towers might fare on the market: their height alone offers something pretty distinct, and I certainly don't think of Mecanicsville as the "middle of nowhere." I will grant that we are a bit of island amidst the Commuter Expressway, traffic sewers of Scott and Parkdale and the Bayview emptiness, but much of that should be much changed in ten years, and real estate is supposed to be a long game... all that to say not very much, I suppose.

The 3 proposed towers in the area are still in the process of being approved - which is why there is no pre-selling going on. 99 Parkdale looks like it'll be the first to the market, since they are the only ones I see with a sales office in the works. Having worked for a few different builders in Ottawa, they typically don't like to go to market with their product until it's been approved - less legal issues and sales issues that way. But I would expect that 1 or 2 of these up-coming projects will come up for sale this Spring (Mar-May). Soho Parkway sold extremely well when it was launched in 2009, since it had similar features, finishes and plans of downtown or Westboro conods, but it didn't have their price tags. I would expect the pricing of these 3 new projects to be priced in a similar fashion.

But as I previously mentioned, the big draw to this area is the LRT station. Based on the impact LRT (or similar public transit) has on near-by real estate will be too irresistable for investors to resist - read Don Campbell's report on the impact it had in Calgary and other similar sized cities to Ottawa.
http://www.realestateinvestingincana..._%20report.pdf

[McC]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Tunney's is getting revamped with less government buildings and more residential lots and even an extension to the Parkdale Market.

The current plan (presented as two indistinguishable options here: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-p...dev-3-eng.html) is to double or treble the office space, and all but one building would be 100% federal government occupied. There is only 1 mixed use building proposed for immediately beside the transit station that would offices, but the only difference is that offices in that building wouldn't be *required* to be government offices (but would anyone else want them?). There would be some residential added on the west side of Parkdale only, though it's shown as pretty minimal because PWGSC's consultants used the existing zoning for the east side of Parkdale as their template (i.e. 12-ish storeys) instead of the tall towers now being approved by the City. Where did you hear about an extension of the market? Nothing like that was mentioned in the 1 official "consultation" with the neighbouring communities.

[McC]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

The 3 proposed towers in the area are still in the process of being approved - which is why there is no pre-selling going on.

The re-zoning has been approved for all three. 99 Parkdale's site plan almost all done, with just a few minor details with the utility companies left to confirm, then approval by Council. 111 and 159 Parkdale are both hoping to have their site plans done by spring, but that's pretty optimistic. I heard one of the guys from TEGA boasting about starting construction on 111 in the Fall: but I think that you could safely put a lot of money down against that if anyone was wiling to take the bet.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

The current plan (presented as two indistinguishable options here: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-p...dev-3-eng.html) is to double or treble the office space, and all but one building would be 100% federal government occupied. There is only 1 mixed use building proposed for immediately beside the transit station that would offices, but these offices wouldn't be *required* to be government offices (but would anyone else want them?). There would be some residential added on the west side of Parkdale only, though it's shown as pretty minimal because PWGSC's consultants used the existing zoning for the east side of Parkdale as their template (i.e. 12-storeys) instead of the tall towers now being approved by the City. Where did you hear about an extension of the market? Nothing like that was mentioned in the 1 official "consultation" with the neighbouring communities.

I've seen nothing in writing about the Parkdale Market extension, but 2 of my very good friends work at Tunney's and are keeping a very close eye on the prosed development/changes at Tunney's and they've heard a few whispers about expanding the Market area. Until it's been agreed upon and finalized, it's anyone's guess what will happen there.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

The re-zoning has been approved for all three. 99 Parkdale's site plan almost all done, with just a few minor details with the utility companies left to confirm, then approval by Council. 111 and 159 Parkdale are both hoping to have their site plans done by spring, but that's pretty optimistic. I heard one of the guys from TEGA boasting about starting construction on 111 in the Fall: but I think that you could safely put a lot of money down against that if anyone was wiling to take the bet.

Re-zoning has been done, but there are a lot more hoops for the developers to jump through before they have something they can sell. Having been involved in the pre-sales of a building that wasn't finally approved and having witnessed the sales guys re-sell almost all of the suites after a proposed designed was rejected and thus eliminated many of our suites, it's a huge headache for developers to deal with.

As for TEGA starting construction in the Fall, that is wishful thinking as its best. Like most of the condos going up, there's a 99.999% chance theywill be bank financed and require 65-70% pre-sales to be able to break ground. Without an actual office up yet, they would be very hard pressed to meet that sales quota before Fall this year. In fact, that would be record breaking sales for Ottawa. Possible? Yes. Unlikely? Most certainly.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

You must have been in the dark in the last little while - there are huge changes happening around Tunney's Pasture and Mechanicsville/Hintonburg area. Tunney's is getting revamped with less government buildings and more residential lots and even an extension to the Parkdale Market. Plus the LRT station will be minutes away.

But right now, if you take the Parkdale ramp onto the Ottawa River Parkway, you'll be downtown in less than 3 minutes (in a car), 10 minutes (on bike) and 20-25 minutes (on foot) - I would hardly call that far. If you travel the same length of time but go west instead, you are in the middle of Wellington Village/Westboro - not exactly the middle of nowhere. You're also a few minutes away from the Queensway.

You can access the River at Lemieux island, about a 5 minute walk from Lyndale and Parkdale - there's a traffic light to access it as well, so it's no more dangerous than crossing the Alexandra Bridge.

The VIU is a nice looking project, but I'm not sure how it's any better than anything on Parkdale. It happens to be in the highest taxed Province in Canada and not that much closer to downtown Ottawa than Parkdale - you still have to take public transit or car/bike if you want to avoid a lengthy walk. As for the neighbourhood, it's not all that different from Mechanicsville/Hintonburg - small-ish homes that need up-dating and some commercial lots sprinkled in there as well. Like the Mechanicsville/Hintonburg area, there is room for improvement.

You are right, location is everything, and based on the real estate growth in Ottawa compared to Gatineau/Hull, the preferred location of most buyers is Ottawa.

We don't have the same definition of access to the river, however for most of us this means having a boat on a fairly large water area... additionnal bonus as is the case with the VIU if you can also access other waterways to travel.

The walk from the VIU will take 10 minutes at the most to get to the Market area or the Rideau Center. You better jog at a fast pace if you want to get there before me. P.S. No use going downtown as such as there is nothing there but offices.

As for Tunney`s pasture, I won't hold my breath. It will be a long time before we see anything changing. Whatever they do, residents will never be in the core and touristy area of Ottawa which is enjoyable.

Access to the LRT is a good thing for the residents as they will need somekind of transportation mode to get out of the area.

On the matter of income taxes, you must take into account the difference in the cost of real estate ownership between the two provinces before you can say that Ontario is better.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Boxster

We don't have the same definition of access to the river, however for most of us this means having a boat on a fairly large water area...

"most of us"? what are the stats on boat ownership among urban residents, and condo owners in particular? I do agree with you that there's a difference of definitions here, although I'd be inclined to say the difference is in defining "most" or "us" rather than "access."

Anyway, so you don't like the neighbourhood, no problem, that's why there are other neighbourhoods. I hope you enjoy yours. I sure enjoy mine.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by McC

"most of us"? what are the stats on boat ownership among urban residents, and condo owners in particular? clearly there's a difference of definitions here, although I'd be inclined to say the difference is in defining "most" or "us" rather than "access."

Anyway, so you don't like the neighbourhood, no problem, that's why there are other neighbourhoods. I hope you enjoy yours. I sure enjoy mine.

The reason most urban residents don't have access to the water is because there are few developments that can provide this. Ottawa has no such area....not even a decent central marina facility. Pitty!!!

[McC]

Originally Posted by Boxster

Ottawa has no such area

Britannia Bay?

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by McC

Britannia Bay?

Agree -Great for small sail boats however not so good for motor boats as you are quite restricted in terms of where you can travel either up river or downriver.

Much preferable to develop facilities east of Victoria island that provide access to Rideau Canal/River, Thousands Islands and right through to Quebec City if one wishes.

[McC]

maybe, but is "I'd sure like to live in a condo downtown, but where would I park my boat?" a problem that afflicts a significant number of people?

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by McC

maybe, but "I'd sure like to live in a condo downtown, but where would I park my boat?" doesn't seem like a problem that afflicts a significant number of people.

Rightly so as most people don't think of this, unless they live in Fort Lauderdale or anywhere on the inter coastal waterway, as there are no opportunities in Ottawa.

There is only one such place across the river from Ottawa.

[Kitchissippi]

As an avid paddler, I quite like the fact that there are no powerboats between the Deschenes rapids and the Chaudiere Falls except for the occasional anglers. Way too many d-bag speed boaters below Parliament Hill.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

As an avid paddler, I quite like the fact that there are no powerboats between the Deschenes rapids and the Chaudiere Falls except for the occasional anglers. Way too many d-bag speed boaters below Parliament Hill.

I agree with you and that is what makes it nice for you.

The police presence is however always around east of Victoria Island.

[m3i6]

Originally Posted by Boxster

I agree with you and that is what makes it nice for you.

The police presence is however always around east of Victoria Island.

Ah hah, so that's where the donut shops are.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by Boxster

We don't have the same definition of access to the river, however for most of us this means having a boat on a fairly large water area... additionnal bonus as is the case with the VIU if you can also access other waterways to travel.

The walk from the VIU will take 10 minutes at the most to get to the Market area or the Rideau Center. You better jog at a fast pace if you want to get there before me. P.S. No use going downtown as such as there is nothing there but offices.

As for Tunney`s pasture, I won't hold my breath. It will be a long time before we see anything changing. Whatever they do, residents will never be in the core and touristy area of Ottawa which is enjoyable.

Access to the LRT is a good thing for the residents as they will need somekind of transportation mode to get out of the area.

On the matter of income taxes, you must take into account the difference in the cost of real estate ownership between the two provinces before you can say that Ontario is better.

You've clearly purchased at VIU (and/or work for the builder).

If the access to the water means literally having a marina outside of your door, then I'm very happy the VIU offers that to you and that you found one another. However, I wouldn't harp on other neighbourhoods/condos because you don't have a personal taste for the area or building, especailly based upon something as unusual as a water access requirement - I, for one, couldn't care less about water access in front of my condo, but that doesn't mean I don't see the benefit that may add for some buyers. When I purchase a condo, knowing I'm not going to reside there for my lifetime, or perhaps not even at all, I choose to focus on the features of the condo or neighbourhood that will appeal to the masses - makes for a better return on my investment and easier to rent.

As far as "holding your breath" for Tunney's to be re-vamped, do you expect the changes in VIU's direct neighbourhood to happen any faster? Because there are some really ugly and awfuly houses in that 'hood. It'll be awhile for that area to fully tansition. As for the Tunney's area, there are already 3 pending condominiums planned on Parkdale alone, plus one almost finishes on Holland and, as previously mentioned, the LRT will be in place for 2017/18. You might love being on the other side of the river, but you can't argue that Tunney's will be one of the next areas in Ottawa to change - it's no longer a matter of "if", it's "when".

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

maybe, but is "I'd sure like to live in a condo downtown, but where would I park my boat?" a problem that afflicts a significant number of people?

I found a place for my boat, it's my submarine I'm having problems with.