Phoenix CityScape Thread

[Phxguy]

Ra Yoga is supposed to go into the old DD space in the upcoming months but haven't heard anything about it.

[gymratmanaz]

I just talked to two ladies who were working inside the old skating rental place, formerly DD. It is becoming a shoe store.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

I just talked to two ladies who were working inside the old skating rental place, formerly DD. It is becoming a shoe store.

Did they say what kind? Good news I suppose, we can always use more retail downtown.

Maybe w/ Jos A Bank, Urban Outfitters, Charming Charlie's, etc. CityScape is getting close to a sustainable mix of retail. It still feels like we need an anchor in the next/future phase, i.e a City Target or even something like a Marshalls, Ross or Kohls.

[gymratmanaz]

They did not, but I am guessing it is a women's shoe store. There was nice furniture going in, so guessing something upscale.

[HX_Guy]

Things look like they're moving forward! Still just a "Phased Review", not an actual permit to build, but it's the next step in the process. Previous "Phased Review" permit was for a 14 story apartment addition, looks like it's been revised to 12 stories.

Permit# PHAS-0705627-17 Issue Date 11/9/12 Expires 11/9/13
Permit Description CORE AND SHELL
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE
Address 2 E JEFFERSON ST PHOENIX AZ 85004 Zoning
L 1 B * REPLAT OF REPLAT OF BLOCK 22 QS Q10-28 APN 112-27-126 Dist 08
Description/Scope of Work: COMMERCIAL NEW

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: 12-STORY APARTMENT BUILDING ON TOP OF EXISTING PALOMAR HOTEL.

[Jjs5056]

I spent last Sunday downtown and have to say I was pleasantly surprised at how much more alive it is these days (of course, it would've been impossible to get any worse, as it was a complete dead zone in the past on weekends). We started with lunch at Bliss, which actually seemed to get more crowded as the day went on... This area can only see more traffic as Roosevelt Point wraps up and opens.

We then walked on over to CityScape for some frozen yogurt and while I have been critical in the last over the design, there were quite a few highlights as we walked around:

1. With Jos A Bank opening, that whole intersection looks VERY urban with Urban Outfitters, Jos A Bank and Charming Charlie's all opening up to the street.
2. There was quite a bit of foot traffic, with people heading to Copper Blue's; on the down side, it didn't look like Lucky Strike or Gypsy Bar were too crowded- and Gypsy Bar's signage is downright disgusting. From the articles I had read, it seemed like they were going for an upscale approach, but the signage read dive bar to me.
3. I ran into *several* groups of people who were trying to go to Arrogant Butcher; all were very disappointed when I told them it was closed on Sundays. On the other hand, the fact that so many people get lost is a testament to the poor design.
4. As we walked through the plaza, I realized it isn't as bad as I thought- the architecture is still cheap and gross, but at least the plaza is open enough that you are able to see the retail inside, unlike Arizona Center and Colliers. I'm not sure why they said they are 100% full, though, as I noticed at least one open space next to Urban.

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience as I have been quite down on this place previously. But, I remember walking through this area on a Saturday afternoon back in 2008 after the election and it was a ghost town. The fact that there was life in the streets on a Sunday shows that it has had a positive impact on our city, in spite of the cheap architecture and poor design.

The one thing I'll always be disappointed in is the failure to provide any kind of retail on Jefferson. You head that way and it's like downtown ends, which is a real shame because CityScape could have been the connection between the business district and the entertainment section (Us Airways and Chase Field), as well as the historic buildings with Luhrs and the warehouses to the south. Maybe the apartments can help with this? Could more residents spur some tenants in Luhrs?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

3. I ran into *several* groups of people who were trying to go to Arrogant Butcher; all were very disappointed when I told them it was closed on Sundays. On the other hand, the fact that so many people get lost is a testament to the poor design.

That's funny because last time I ate at Arrogant Butcher, I sat at the bar and could overhear the chatter at the host station. Several times, people wandered into Arrogant Butcher thinking it was the Tilted Kilt. Most of the confused customers sounded like people who go Downtown only occasionally, yet CityScape's design makes it harder than it should be for them to find places they've heard about.

[Vicelord John]

so Central is closed and the ice rink is going in the middle of the street???????

[gymratmanaz]

traffic wise that sucks, but it is a much better idea for everything else. Will look cool. Probably bigger too!

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

so Central is closed and the ice rink is going in the middle of the street???????

I dont know but it wouldnt surprise me. A big part of REDs strategy on selling the City on losing the public space of Patriots Sq Park was that Central Ave between Washington and Jefferson for bigger events and make it a public space.

[Vicelord John]

well i confirmed it. it's posted on cityscape's facebook and on the city's traffic closure website. Central closed between jeff/wash until january 11.

[PHXflyer]

While I have no doubt that will look nice and create a great courtyard atmosphere, how can the city continue to bow down to RED? Closing a main thoroughfare and the primary entrance to downtown from the south? That whole block of Central is already jacked. Have you ever checked out the sight lines down Central and noticed how the lanes meander through that area? Somehow RED was able to build the east block far closer to the street than any other buildings on central, except the Renaissance.

[NorthScottsdale]

Originally Posted by PHXflyer

While I have no doubt that will look nice and create a great courtyard atmosphere, how can the city continue to bow down to RED? Closing a main thoroughfare and the primary entrance to downtown from the south? That whole block of Central is already jacked. Have you ever checked out the sight lines down Central and noticed how the lanes meander through that area? Somehow RED was able to build the east block far closer to the street than any other buildings on central, except the Renaissance.

I think people will cope just fine. It's just one block!

[gymratmanaz]

I went down for the tree lighting. it was awesome. They had a quartet from Phoenix Symp[hony playing, tons of people, and it looked great!!!

[Vicelord John]

I had been on the bicycle for 12+ hours yesterday. It was 9pm, riding up central from south mountain, and that stupid damn ice rink got in the way. After 212 miles of cycling, you'd think I'd be mentall tougher than to let something like that bother me.

It bothered me a lot, and I can't believe the city gave up central.

[PHXflyer]

Originally Posted by NorthScottsdale

I think people will cope just fine. It's just one block!

While you're correct that it is just one block and yes people will cope, you're missing the overall point. I park at Renaissance garage, as do many. When leaving there to go north you have to turn south on 1st Ave, wait at the light at Washington. Then continue to Jefferson to wait at a light where hardly anyone realizes you can take a left on red between two one way streets. Next you travel east, but now Central is closed so you stop at that light. Now continue to 1st street and take another left going north to Washington. That's two more lights. Take a left on Washington while making sure to get on the correct side of the light rail tracks to make a right onto Central and finally be on your way. No joke, it can take 10 min to go this "1 block", and that's for a downtown resident. Good luck to someone not familiar with the streets. Anyway, now I've strayed from the real point as well. At least it turned out nice and has a good vibe.

[plinko]

^Whine much? Your car makes right turns as well. And going down to 3rd Avenue is not exactly a detour to Avondale.

That's the kind of mentality that will never allow Phoenix to become a city about people instead of one about cars.

[ljbuild]

New term for cityscape, " CHEAPY-SCAPE"

This is no comparison the the NEW TALLEST of Oklahoma, called the


DEVON ENERGY TOWER which stands at 850 ft and/or 52 STORIES tall.

That building would be more fitting in Phoenix that little bitty Oklahoma city

which is actually where the tower is.

This place had just opened up in October 2012, to give the state of

Oklahoma and Oklahoma city its NEW TALLEST.

WHEN WILL PHOENIX OR ARIZONA GET ITS NEW TALLEST ?:koko

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Whine much? Your car makes right turns as well. And going down to 3rd Avenue is not exactly a detour to Avondale.

That's the kind of mentality that will never allow Phoenix to become a city about people instead of one about cars.

Seriously. And as you said, why not take 1st Ave to Washington, then make a right and then another right on 3rd Ave and take that north?

Or if you insist on taking Central north, you don't have to turn on Washington off of 1st St and deal with the light rail tracks, you could take 1st St to Adams and then to Central.

[PHXflyer]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Whine much? Your car makes right turns as well. And going down to 3rd Avenue is not exactly a detour to Avondale.

That's the kind of mentality that will never allow Phoenix to become a city about people instead of one about cars.

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Seriously. And as you said, why not take 1st Ave to Washington, then make a right and then another right on 3rd Ave and take that north?

Or if you insist on taking Central north, you don't have to turn on Washington off of 1st St and deal with the light rail tracks, you could take 1st St to Adams and then to Central.

Holy hell.... I'm a bit of a novice to forums and make it a practice to rarely post because of immaturity like this. I'm not whining, just stating my stance on why I think the city closing a major artery through downtown to benefit a private businesses initial lack of planning or vision is not a good idea.

Aren't you the same people who are against the 7's and 5th and 3rd avenue being used for major arteries into the city? I could swear I've seen that argument on here in the past, but now you call me a whiner and recommend using 3rd Ave as a way in and out of downtown? That's a great idea. Let's push more traffic through the historic neighborhoods that have already been raped by the city so that CityScape can have an ice skating rink. With that mindset you should be in city hall in no time! By the way, 3rd Ave is two blocks west resulting in 3 blocks back east to get to Central.

As for PHX being a city based on cars, unfortunately you're right. I agree wholeheartedly, but at under 3000 miles a year on my car, I'm not the problem. Believe it or not, there are some things a person cannot find downtown which requires driving. I choose to do a majority of my business as close to central Phoenix as possible and it's for this reason that Central is nice to use.

Overall, my point again is that you are missing the point. It's not about the traffic detour, I was merely providing an example. It's about the city lying down for a poorly designed project. Try to stay focused on the larger point at hand.

Sorry to fly off the handle, but I've never attacked anyone's ideas or views on here and would assume we can all be adults and listen to everyone's ideas and thoughts without calling others "whiners". Perhaps things like this bother me more because along with a select other couple on this forum, I actually live in downtown and all my daily activities take place here. I'm not a weekend warrior who drives down to imagine life here once or twice a month. With that in mind, tell me that you wouldn't complain a tad to a friend or neighbor if the city shut down the main road into your neighborhood for a month and a half, and again that's not the bigger point at hand.

Now back to the subject: the ice skating rink is great. Much better than the first year. I like the idea of street festivals and such, but 1st street would be the ideal spot for this. Unfortunately as we all know, CityScape didn't follow through with that last phase of the project so that wouldn't work.