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  #6461  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 3:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
This would actually be very useful information to have. I wonder if such stats exist somewhere in the bowels of the Department of transportation.

It would also be interesting to have information on the relative severity of accidents and the fatality rates. I imagine more accidents in northern Ontario are serious head on collisions while your typical wussy accident in downtown TO is simply a fender bender........
Good luck on that.

You could get it via Access to Information, however, the data would be so large and overwhelming that it would take months or even years to decipher the information into anything meaningful.

The Northern Ontario Party learned that when we went looking for information on the provincial budget and how it is spent in various locations.
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  #6462  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 3:25 AM
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Oh, I'm mocking the people who oppose highway upgrades in this region because Toronto deserves everything since people live there.

I wonder if anyone has ever looked at accidents per 1,000 AADT and if the rates in the north are higher or lower than in the south? And how would that affect people's opinions on highway upgrades in this region? If you have 1 accident per week on a 5 km stretch of northern highway with 5,000 AADT, a stretch of highway with 400,000 AADT would need to have 80 accidents per week (one every two hours) to be "equally dangerous".
It sucks for Northeastern Ontario as there are two major routes (11 and 17) that serve their own individual niche. Favoring one means neglecting the other. I'm an optimist, but I can't justify two very low AADT four lane routes across the huge landscape of the Northeast. If there was only one route that served everybody (like in the Northwest), I'd be much more supportive.

The idea of collisions in relation to AADT might be an interesting idea, but I could see it breaking down at extreme ends of the comparison - one accident on a low AADT secondary highway would skew the rates hugely, whereas a high volume highway might not get safety issues addressed because it didn't qualify as being 'dangerous'. I like jmt's idea of holistic evidence-based highway improvements and I believe that most highway departments tend to use that in design.
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  #6463  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 3:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
It sucks for Northeastern Ontario as there are two major routes (11 and 17) that serve their own individual niche. Favoring one means neglecting the other. I'm an optimist, but I can't justify two very low AADT four lane routes across the huge landscape of the Northeast. If there was only one route that served everybody (like in the Northwest), I'd be much more supportive.

The idea of collisions in relation to AADT might be an interesting idea, but I could see it breaking down at extreme ends of the comparison - one accident on a low AADT secondary highway would skew the rates hugely, whereas a high volume highway might not get safety issues addressed because it didn't qualify as being 'dangerous'. I like jmt's idea of holistic evidence-based highway improvements and I believe that most highway departments tend to use that in design.
Highway 17 Between Arnprior and the Soo and from Thunder Bay to the MB border as well as 11 from Nipigon east and south to North Bay would be what I would suggest first.

That's still well over 1000 km.
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  #6464  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post
The severity is important - imagining the severity is less so.
As a generalization I'd say most fatal car accidents in Toronto are pedestrians being struck, which isn't going to happen very often on the TCH. Accidents do happen on Toronto's freeways/expressways of course, but they don't tend to be fatal. In Southern Ontario, fatalities involving multiple vehicles tend to happen in rural areas. When I lived in London it seemed like there was a fatal accident every other week in the surrounding rural counties, especially Huron. However nobody is calling for the twinning of the county roads or concession roads.
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  #6465  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 4:58 PM
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Highway 401 Median in SW Ontario

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/08/30/hi...n-chatham-kent

I would agree that better protections are needed in the median of the 401 between London and Tilbury, where it can be rather narrow. Large parts of the 401 in Eastern Ontario, where it is only two lanes each way, have barriers now where the median was narrow.

However I disagree with the petition calling for all 400-series highways to have these barriers. Many other 400-series highways have very wide medians, where a barrier would be unnecessary. There are sections of the 402 between Strathroy and Sarnia where there are trees in the very wide median, and I know portions of the 417 east of Ottawa also have a very wide median.
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  #6466  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2017, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
http://www.lfpress.com/2017/08/30/hi...n-chatham-kent

I would agree that better protections are needed in the median of the 401 between London and Tilbury, where it can be rather narrow. Large parts of the 401 in Eastern Ontario, where it is only two lanes each way, have barriers now where the median was narrow.

However I disagree with the petition calling for all 400-series highways to have these barriers. Many other 400-series highways have very wide medians, where a barrier would be unnecessary. There are sections of the 402 between Strathroy and Sarnia where there are trees in the very wide median, and I know portions of the 417 east of Ottawa also have a very wide median.
That is farmland. That is very flat and smooth. The 400 near Parry sound is hilly and has deep ditches. There is no way anything is crossing to the other side.
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  #6467  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 12:12 AM
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Well, the BC NDP have just officially made the worst political decision in BC within the last couple decades and have cancelled the entire George Massey Bridge and highway 99 upgrade project.

My post from the Vancouver section:

Worst decision a provincial government has made in decades.

Such a waste.

Design work, done, pre loading, done, pre engineering work, done. Cancelled!

This project would have been entirely built within pre-existing land reserved for the highway (no loss the ALR like many misinformed believed), and the major interchanges would actually have had smaller footprints than the existing ones (also not known by the miss informed) and involved the best realistic transit solution possible for this corridor with a true rapid bus system / HOV system that involved direct ramps from the highway to Bridgeport Skytrain Station (also largely ignored / not know by those who were against net it). Then of course there was also the benefit of actually being able to ride / walk across this new crossing.

Fuck, seriously, fucking stupid.

It is also interesting how many I know who voted for the NDP are now coming out of the woodwork surprised and angry about this decision. They actually didn't know it was their plan to cancel this project. Really wish people would research before they vote. A similar thing is starting to happen regarding site C now as well.

Nearly all of the people against this project were also against the Highway 1 Port Mann Project. I am curious, now that that project is done, do you still desire to have the old Highway and bridge back? Do you wish to erase all the new highway 1 HOV / 555 bus infrastructure that was only possible to have with a full highway and bridge rebuild?
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  #6468  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 12:42 AM
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Says here it's been put under review, not cancelled, but I agree if they cancel it then it would be an incredibly moronic decision. I'm so glad the Alberta NDP might as well be a different party altogether to the BC version and have not done anything similar.

B.C. government puts Massey Tunnel bridge on hold; independent review to take place

The BC Liberals didn't just decide to build a 10 lane bridge, it was decided by qualified people given a careful deliberation of the options. Repeating this is a massive waste of time and money.
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  #6469  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Says here it's been put under review, not cancelled, but I agree if they cancel it then it would be an incredibly moronic decision. I'm so glad the Alberta NDP might as well be a different party altogether to the BC version and have not done anything similar.

B.C. government puts Massey Tunnel bridge on hold; independent review to take place

The BC Liberals didn't just decide to build a 10 lane bridge, it was decided by qualified people given a careful deliberation of the options. Repeating this is a massive waste of time and money.
BC resemble more and more like Quebec, back in the days (1990-2005). Now we are proactive with our big infrastructure projects.
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  #6470  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Says here it's been put under review, not cancelled, but I agree if they cancel it then it would be an incredibly moronic decision. I'm so glad the Alberta NDP might as well be a different party altogether to the BC version and have not done anything similar.

B.C. government puts Massey Tunnel bridge on hold; independent review to take place

The BC Liberals didn't just decide to build a 10 lane bridge, it was decided by qualified people given a careful deliberation of the options. Repeating this is a massive waste of time and money.
Don't be naive. Unless there's another election in short order where the NDP is kicked out of power this project is dead which is not only bad for the Vancouver metro region but for the nation economically.
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  #6471  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 5:28 AM
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I am glad they have put a moratorium on the project. Yes the GMT is grossly over capacity but a bridge was never the best option. Twinning the tunnels would have been easier to build and much cheaper. Christy was hell bent on a bridge but refused to say how much the tolls would be. The PM came in 2X over budget and was soaked with Liberal Party kickbacks.

Vancouver road infrastructure is the worst on the continent by a long shot and it will take decades to bring it up to the standards it should be at right now. Decades of non-investments/expansion and incredibly poor planning has led to this.
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  #6472  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 5:22 PM
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Keep waiting Kitchener and Guelph....


https://www.therecord.com/news-story...ning-drags-on/

Quote:
New Highway 7 delayed again as 28 years of planning drags on
Sep 07, 2017 by Jeff Outhit Waterloo Region Record



KITCHENER — The government has again delayed completing a new Highway 7 to Guelph, 28 years after planning began and after spending more than $100 million.

The new deadline to finish the highway is some time after 2021, according to a timetable released in August by the Ministry of Transportation.

A design document from 2012 indicates the province expected to complete the highway by 2021. In 2013 the province set completion at beyond 2016 in its annual five-year construction forecast. Since then it has steadily delayed completion to beyond 2021 in the latest annual forecast.

If the highway is completed after 2021, that is more than 32 years after planning began in 1989 and more than 14 years after it was approved in 2007.

"I'm concerned," said Art Sinclair, vice-president of public policy for the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce. "We just need that connection, between two growing communities. There's obviously a lot of economic activity going on in both communities.

"I think it's time in this community we got this back on the priority list for the Province of Ontario."

Sinclair and others recall that the province wanted to have the new highway built by 2014 after approving it in 2007.

Ontario has spent up to $102 million preparing for the new highway. The four-lane freeway, divided by a grass median, will run just north of the current Highway 7 for almost 19 kilometres between Kitchener and Guelph. The government won't say how much it will cost.

Here's a summary of work to date:

•The government has bought all the property it needs for $70 million. Land costs had been estimated at $11 million in 2002 and $36 million in 2007.

•The transportation ministry is currently relocating pipes and utilities and installing retaining walls where ramps will connect the new highway to the Kitchener-Waterloo expressway. The ministry is currently realigning Shirley Avenue near a planned highway interchange. It has already widened the Guelph Street bridge. The total cost for all these works is up to $32 million.

•The transportation ministry will demolish and replace the Victoria Street bridge next year, closing the crossing to traffic for a year. Costs are not released.

•Construction of new twin bridges over the Grand River, a major part of the new highway, is to be completed by 2020 according to the new timeline. Costs are not released.

There's still no firm timeline or contracts tendered to build most of the new highway.

Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca did not respond directly when asked to explain delays. "We remain committed to keeping people and goods moving across the Guelph and Waterloo regions, and will continue to provide updates on the progress being made on the new Highway 7," he said in a statement.

Progressive Conservative MPP Michael Harris asked the government last fall to count all the provincial staff exclusively dedicated working on the new Highway 7. The government said there's one.

"I was shocked," said Harris, of Kitchener-Conestoga. "The Liberals will promise you the world before an election to get your vote, but when shovels need to go in the ground they're not quick do that … It's frustrating. We know the need is there for Highway 7. It's been there for decades."

Former Liberal transportation minister Donna Cansfield approved the new highway in 2007. She cited traffic congestion, improved safety and economic development and said the highway had been put off for too long. She then left the provincial cabinet and her government put off the highway again.

The Liberal government revived the new highway in 2012 in what was seen as a failed bid to win the riding of Kitchener-Waterloo in a byelection. Sinclair expects Highway 7 delays to be raised again in the Ontario election next June.

Current construction next to the expressway is meant in part to prepare for flyover ramps that will connect the expressway to the new Highway 7.

Starting in January, the yearlong closure of the Victoria Street crossing will send traffic to other expressway bridges, including at Frederick and Wellington streets. Governments are working on detour plans.

A wider Victoria Street bridge is expected to open by the end of next year. Victoria Street will also be widened between Edna and Bruce streets. The new bridge and street will include four lanes and sidewalks. A median to prevent collisions will separate traffic until the new Highway 7 opens. The new highway is expected to reduce Victoria Street traffic, allowing the median to be replaced by a continuous centre left-turn lane. Bicycle lanes are not planned.

A water pipe attached to the current bridge is being buried beneath the expressway. Other underground pipes are being relocated to separate them from future construction.

Retaining walls currently under construction on both sides of the expressway will support future highway ramps and a new road connecting Edna and Wellington streets.

With limited exceptions, the expressway is expected to stay open to traffic when new Highway 7 flyovers are built above it. "To me this is a lifeline for this area," said Jasan Boparai, a Ministry of Transportation engineer.
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  #6473  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:38 PM
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We're going to consider splurging on guardrails, imagine that, along an area of the TCH that has killed multiple people, several recently.

All ye other provinces should follow our ground-breaking lead.



Sssooo sick of people dying on this effing highway. I know we're developing world by any objective standard, that's fine, but we have third-world deaths on this road - the reasons are far too often a result of the infrastructure, as opposed to JUST wildlife, driver error, etc.

This poor girl left a party at Memorial University and died on her way home. For no good reason.
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  #6474  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2017, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I am glad they have put a moratorium on the project. Yes the GMT is grossly over capacity but a bridge was never the best option. Twinning the tunnels would have been easier to build and much cheaper. Christy was hell bent on a bridge but refused to say how much the tolls would be. The PM came in 2X over budget and was soaked with Liberal Party kickbacks.

Vancouver road infrastructure is the worst on the continent by a long shot and it will take decades to bring it up to the standards it should be at right now. Decades of non-investments/expansion and incredibly poor planning has led to this.
Considering that Hwy 99 would narrow to 4 lanes across the Oak Street Bridge, I thought that 10 lanes was a bit ambitious. The GMT needs upgrading/replacing, but it seems that it would have been odd to have it that big. Maybe if it tied into some sort of bypass through Vancouver, but that didn't seem part of the plan (nor would it ever be).
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  #6475  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2017, 4:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Well, the BC NDP have just officially made the worst political decision in BC within the last couple decades and have cancelled the entire George Massey Bridge and highway 99 upgrade project.

My post from the Vancouver section:

Worst decision a provincial government has made in decades.

Such a waste.

Design work, done, pre loading, done, pre engineering work, done. Cancelled!

This project would have been entirely built within pre-existing land reserved for the highway (no loss the ALR like many misinformed believed), and the major interchanges would actually have had smaller footprints than the existing ones (also not known by the miss informed) and involved the best realistic transit solution possible for this corridor with a true rapid bus system / HOV system that involved direct ramps from the highway to Bridgeport Skytrain Station (also largely ignored / not know by those who were against net it). Then of course there was also the benefit of actually being able to ride / walk across this new crossing.

Fuck, seriously, fucking stupid.

It is also interesting how many I know who voted for the NDP are now coming out of the woodwork surprised and angry about this decision. They actually didn't know it was their plan to cancel this project. Really wish people would research before they vote. A similar thing is starting to happen regarding site C now as well.

Nearly all of the people against this project were also against the Highway 1 Port Mann Project. I am curious, now that that project is done, do you still desire to have the old Highway and bridge back? Do you wish to erase all the new highway 1 HOV / 555 bus infrastructure that was only possible to have with a full highway and bridge rebuild?
So stupid and frustrating.
Just as you feared might happen when the NDP seized the reins of power.
I hope they don't kill the Kicking Horse Canyon work on the TCH too.

BTW - What is "site C" ?

Last edited by craner; Sep 9, 2017 at 6:13 AM.
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  #6476  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2017, 4:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dmuzika View Post
Considering that Hwy 99 would narrow to 4 lanes across the Oak Street Bridge, I thought that 10 lanes was a bit ambitious. The GMT needs upgrading/replacing, but it seems that it would have been odd to have it that big. Maybe if it tied into some sort of bypass through Vancouver, but that didn't seem part of the plan (nor would it ever be).
This is a common misconception. Reality is the majority of drivers through the tunnel don't go onto Vancouver. So thee wouldn't be a bottle neck at oak. Not to mention people can divert to knight
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  #6477  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2017, 6:12 AM
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Nm
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  #6478  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 5:04 AM
dmuzika dmuzika is offline
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Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
This is a common misconception. Reality is the majority of drivers through the tunnel don't go onto Vancouver. So thee wouldn't be a bottle neck at oak. Not to mention people can divert to knight
Fair enough. I was hoping a direct 'Y' would have been built at Knight.
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  #6479  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:37 AM
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We've had around 15 deaths on the highways over the past few weeks and people are starting to turn on the government for it. The flashpoint seems to be the two-lane Veterans Memorial Highway on the Northwest Avalon, where people are demanding passing lanes. Government is pushing back saying people just need to slow down and drive to the conditions. The highway gets up to 9,000 vehicles today with speeds ranging from 120-150 km/hr despite a speed limit under 100.
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  #6480  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
We've had around 15 deaths on the highways over the past few weeks and people are starting to turn on the government for it. The flashpoint seems to be the two-lane Veterans Memorial Highway on the Northwest Avalon, where people are demanding passing lanes. Government is pushing back saying people just need to slow down and drive to the conditions. The highway gets up to 9,000 vehicles today with speeds ranging from 120-150 km/hr despite a speed limit under 100.
15 highway deaths in a couple of weeks in a province of 500k people? Holy crap!
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