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  #3841  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 7:42 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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I guess people who live in condos & apartments are screwed because they have no access to electrical outlets. Also being able to charge your vehicle at certain stops along a highway is great for greenies but it will require decades to install nationwide charging centres for the 5 million Canadians who gas up everyday.

Also if they do transfer gas stations to electrical charging ones what are people suppose to do, wait around for an hour till the car is charged?

EV stations for charging are useless except for politicians who like a good olf fashioned ribbon cutting to prove their eco credentials. They will remain uselss for decades until a totally new system of charging takes place such as MUCH smaller and lighter batteries where you go to the "gas" station and drop off your current battery an simply buy/rent a fully charged one and putting it in the car is as easy as trruning on the radio. Until such a time EV is little more than a politician's wet dream.
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  #3842  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 7:49 PM
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Anyway back to provincial economies....................

Alberta's famed "can do" entreprenuriel spirit always seems to become a "can't do" when it comes to diversifying their economy. Most of you are too young to remember the 80s when oil tanked, Alberta's economy collapsed and they swore up and down that they would diversify the economy so it doesn't go thru these wild boombust cycles. Problem is that when the economy and oil tank, revenues shrink and the governments of the day say they don't have the money to diversify the economy which is their way of treading water until the good times return. When they do eventually return, everyone including the politicians see nothing but good times and forget all about the busts.

Alberta however cannot keep this mentality up. Good times will return but each boom will be smaller than the last as the world very slowly eases off oil.
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  #3843  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I guess people who live in condos & apartments are screwed because they have no access to electrical outlets. Also being able to charge your vehicle at certain stops along a highway is great for greenies but it will require decades to install nationwide charging centres for the 5 million Canadians who gas up everyday.

Also if they do transfer gas stations to electrical charging ones what are people suppose to do, wait around for an hour till the car is charged?

EV stations for charging are useless except for politicians who like a good olf fashioned ribbon cutting to prove their eco credentials. They will remain uselss for decades until a totally new system of charging takes place such as MUCH smaller and lighter batteries where you go to the "gas" station and drop off your current battery an siply buy/rent a fully chared one and putting it in the car is as easy as trruning on the radio. Until such a time EV is little more than a politician's wet dream.
People in apartment buildings still have parking spots. You just install poles at each spot. Charge up at night and it should be fine for regular use to and from work and the store that day, before you come back and charge it at night again. It could become a requirement for new construction, or gradually phased in in existing buildings as residents buy electric cars. No one's saying this will happen overnight, but it is coming. I really don't think it'll be all that messy.
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  #3844  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 10:58 PM
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The smart ones will (and are), and the rest will go bankrupt. Alberta, and anyone else involved in the oil industry can ignore what's looming ahead at their peril. Oil isn't going away anytime soon, but it certainly will diminish in importance. Hedging our bets by not putting all our eggs in one basket is simply good business.
I agree with that. It makes me think of how big the tobacco industry used to be and how it is today. It's not going to be completely gone and it will still have significance for awhile but won't be nearly as big as it once was. The companies will try to use a lot of PR and advertising as much as they can but more and more people will not buy their products.
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  #3845  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Anyway back to provincial economies....................

Alberta's famed "can do" entreprenuriel spirit always seems to become a "can't do" when it comes to diversifying their economy. Most of you are too young to remember the 80s when oil tanked, Alberta's economy collapsed and they swore up and down that they would diversify the economy so it doesn't go thru these wild boombust cycles. Problem is that when the economy and oil tank, revenues shrink and the governments of the day say they don't have the money to diversify the economy which is their way of treading water until the good times return. When they do eventually return, everyone including the politicians see nothing but good times and forget all about the busts.

Alberta however cannot keep this mentality up. Good times will return but each boom will be smaller than the last as the world very slowly eases off oil.
The reality is significantly more nuanced than that. If you consider Alberta and its dependence on oil in 1986 vs 2016, I would say it has dropped significantly. O & G is still a large part of the economy but its importance to Alberta has dropped.

http://www.albertacanada.com/files/a...esentation.pdf

Basically in the 1980s O & G was 23.2% and now its 16.4%. Still the largest but it has dropped. Business and Commercial Services, Real Estate, Finance & Insurance when combined have grown from 20.10% to 28.3%
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  #3846  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 7:36 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I guess people who live in condos & apartments are screwed because they have no access to electrical outlets. Also being able to charge your vehicle at certain stops along a highway is great for greenies but it will require decades to install nationwide charging centres for the 5 million Canadians who gas up everyday.

Also if they do transfer gas stations to electrical charging ones what are people suppose to do, wait around for an hour till the car is charged?

EV stations for charging are useless except for politicians who like a good olf fashioned ribbon cutting to prove their eco credentials. They will remain uselss for decades until a totally new system of charging takes place such as MUCH smaller and lighter batteries where you go to the "gas" station and drop off your current battery an simply buy/rent a fully charged one and putting it in the car is as easy as trruning on the radio. Until such a time EV is little more than a politician's wet dream.
That's where government can help. Tax credits or interest free loans to help multifamily buildings install the infrastructure. That would do more to lower emissions than all the bike lanes in Canada!
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  #3847  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 10:00 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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Asking landlords to install electrical outlets is like asking them to renovate everyone's apartment free of charge........ain't gonna happen. It will be MUCH more expensive to install electrical charging stations underground as it would require a massive amount of work done on the entire building's electrical system. If they do it then there will be a HUGE backlash from the residents themselves as their rent rises to pay for it. Same goes for townhomes and condos...........the price would be added to their condo/strata fees.

All of this of course makes any long distance travel a no-go. It will be a niche market for greenies and politicians looking for re-election until the mass infrastructure is in place and that will take at least 40 to 50 years..........gas stations aren't going anywhere.
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  #3848  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 10:05 PM
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I know that oil & gas is down to 16.4% of GDP but that is misleading. Part of the reason it has dropped is because the economy has shrank and most of that shrinkage took place in O&G. Also prices are much lower now but if they were to rebound that would also show up on the % of GDP.

Alberta is addicted to oil like BC is to housing. Addiction can feel good at first but withdraw is a very painful experience but in the long term it's benefits are many. The sooner Alberta realizes this the better off it will be.
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  #3849  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Better put your family in touch with those crazy environuts at Bloomberg:

Say goodbye to gasoline. The world's slow drift toward electric cars is about to enter full flood.

China, one-third of the world's car market, is working on a timetable to end sales of fossil-fuel-based vehicles, the country's vice minister of industry and information technology, Xin Guobin, told an industry forum in Tianjin on Saturday. That would probably see the country join Norway, France and the U.K. in switching to a wholly electric fleet within the lifetime of most current drivers...

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...-tipping-point
If you think any of those countries will stop the sale of fossil fuel cars within the next 20 years I have a bridge to sell you.
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  #3850  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 4:57 PM
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As for your copper example, unless we replace a significant amount of its use with something else, why would there be nearly no need for new copper? It doesn't last forever and I don't think you can 100% recycle it.
It is actually cheaper to recycle copper than mine new ore and refine it! Around 4% of the worlds petroleum production is used as feedstock for plastics with another 3-4% used as energy to manufacture it.

Quote:
For nearly 5,000 years, copper was the only metal known to man. Today, it's one of the most used and reused of our "modern" metals. Look closely at the next penny you see and consider these bright facts about copper:

The copper on that penny maybe as old as the pharaohs, because copper has an infinite recyclable life. Copper, by itself or in any of its alloys, such as brass or bronze, is used over and over again.
https://www.copper.org/environment/l.../g_recycl.html
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  #3851  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 6:41 PM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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Some building codes are already putting in EV charging requirements:

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-de...uirements.aspx

http://thenewswheel.com/california-b...ging-stations/
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  #3852  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 7:29 PM
big W big W is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I know that oil & gas is down to 16.4% of GDP but that is misleading. Part of the reason it has dropped is because the economy has shrank and most of that shrinkage took place in O&G. Also prices are much lower now but if they were to rebound that would also show up on the % of GDP.

Alberta is addicted to oil like BC is to housing. Addiction can feel good at first but withdraw is a very painful experience but in the long term it's benefits are many. The sooner Alberta realizes this the better off it will be.
Both numbers are a couple years after the crash so not really misleading.
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  #3853  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 8:05 PM
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Census 2016: Income grows in resource-rich provinces, Ontario and Quebec lag behind

Interesting statistics published by statscan

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...beandmail.com&
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  #3854  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 8:19 PM
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Maybe I run in different circles but I have seen business start to diversify here in Alberta. Sure probably not as fast as most would like but after O&G tanked I noticed that our business didn't drop all that much. The lost business was replaced with tech companies, financial companies (banking/insurance),..etc.

In the past downturns I didn't see that sort of thing happening.
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  #3855  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 9:42 PM
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GreaterMontréal GreaterMontréal is offline
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Census 2016: Income grows in resource-rich provinces, Ontario and Quebec lag behind

Interesting statistics published by statscan

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...beandmail.com&
that was to be expected, '' over the past decade ''

the 2021 Census will look totally different
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  #3856  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 10:14 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by craneSpotter View Post
It is actually cheaper to recycle copper than mine new ore and refine it! Around 4% of the worlds petroleum production is used as feedstock for plastics with another 3-4% used as energy to manufacture it.



https://www.copper.org/environment/l.../g_recycl.html
Thanks for that info. I had no idea that copper was nearly infinitely recyclable.
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  #3857  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
There's also this which looks very interesting.

"London street lamps are being turned into electric car charging points "

A number of London’s street lamps are being adapted so they can also charge electric cars, making it easier for drivers to use the vehicles around the city.

German firm Ubitricity is working with a number of the capital's boroughs to install the streetlamps with energy efficient LEDs.

Owners of hybrid and electric cars can order a charging cable with an in-built electricity meter and will be able to charge their vehicles using lampposts in areas of Barnes, Hounslow, Twickenham, Kensington and Westminster.

The charging points offer a solution to the challenges of installing dedicated EV parking bays and removing parking spaces from the general supply, by giving residents who do not have access to off street parking the opportunity to charge their cars locally. However, the sockets offer lower power charging.

Full article at: http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7809126.html
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  #3858  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 10:54 PM
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Our cities are already extensively wired, if EVs grow in popularity the way a lot of people expect they will, the infrastructure will sprout up faster than most think.

My next car is almost assuredly going to be an EV.
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  #3859  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 3:09 PM
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This is going to be a fun week.

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  #3860  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2017, 6:46 PM
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More people seeing the writing on the wall:

A new report by the Centre for International Governance Innovation is questioning the need for new pipelines to carry oilsands production to tidewater for export.

Jeff Rubin, a senior fellow at the centre and a former chief economist at CIBC, says in the report that the claim that additional pipeline capacity to tidewater will unlock higher prices is not corroborated by either past or current market conditions.

Rubin says overseas markets pay even lower prices for bitumen than in North America, so there is no economic case for additional pipeline capacity to tidewater or expanded oilsands production. He says international commitments to reduce global carbon emissions over the next three decades will also reduce the size of future oil markets...


http://business.financialpost.com/co...m-the-oilsands
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