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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Maybe there was some irony in your post that I missed. If so, I apologize.
Or maybe your question was posed in irony as well? And that I missed it.

Anyway, no worries!
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:31 PM
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Ben Shapiro (speaking at Yale) explaining/exposing SJW ideology

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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:39 PM
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What gets lost is how far we have progressed (possibly our the greatest accomplishment) in these situations where we hold people from the 19th century up to today's standards. It's not any different from those that believe all human technological advances were acquired instead of achieved (that crazy haired alien guy is so much fun to watch)

It wasn't entirely good intentions to indoctrinate First Nations at the time but, it's not comparable to the cause of finally removing confederate idols from the Southern States.
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I'm not buying into the "destroying history" argument. It's a statue, who really gives a fuck either way? It's not like it's a historic building or cultural ceremony.
So if there is a plaque honouring local heroes of the LGBT movement that has to come down too, because most of the rest of us don't give a fuck? It works both ways.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
What gets lost is how far we have progressed (possibly our the greatest accomplishment) in these situations where we hold people from the 19th century up to today's standards
I think we've regressed: decency, civility, respect are lost ideals today.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:49 PM
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Well, here we are. 23 posts in and not a single person has come to the defense of the Elementary Teachers' Federation or Idle No More on this issue.

And I think that SSP Canada is a good litmus test of whether a radical social policy will sink or float. I mean, you have a forum that's disproportionately made up of gay, educated and left-leaning urbanites. The forum is also made up of people who have a deeper than average knowledge of history and geography and a greater-than-average commitment to the communities they live in. We're not exactly polling people outside of a Tim Horton's drive thru here. If you can't find someone to rush to your defense on this forum, then you're probably doomed to fail.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:50 PM
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I am not sure how reviling the founder of this country is going to lead us to reconciliation.

The founders of this country had a challenge on how to deal with the indigenous population. How were we going to transform from a nomadic society to a modern society? How were we going to integrate the indigenous population? We cannot and should not glorify what was going on for centuries past. It was inevitably going to end, no matter what. Did our 19th ancestors make the right choices? Were they even equipped to make the right choices at that time?

It is correct to shine the light on the decisions that were made but I question that totally staining the reputations of our 19th century leaders is going to lead us forward in a positive manner.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Aug 28, 2017 at 3:15 PM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
And I think that SSP Canada is a good litmus test of whether a radical social policy will sink or float. I mean, you have a forum that's disproportionately made up of gay, educated and left-leaning urbanites.
Really? No wonder I get into so much trouble
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Well, here we are. 23 posts in and not a single person has come to the defense of the Elementary Teachers' Federation or Idle No More on this issue.

And I think that SSP Canada is a good litmus test of whether a radical social policy will sink or float. I mean, you have a forum that's disproportionately made up of gay, educated and left-leaning urbanites. The forum is also made up of people who have a deeper than average knowledge of history and geography and a greater-than-average commitment to the communities they live in. We're not exactly polling people outside of a Tim Horton's drive thru here. If you can't find someone to rush to your defense on this forum, then you're probably doomed to fail.
My gut tells me that a good chunk of our political élites will nonetheless be responsive to the teachers and Idle No More, regardless of the views of the population in general.

You see this in Europe where polls show a clear disconnect between what the people want and government policy decisions. In some cases these things don't end up being deal-breakers or ballot issues and the political élites do end up surviving the storm.

But there is an inherent danger in this when the people have had enough and decide that there is only one side that truly shares their views and can be counted on to act upon them.

And these days that side is usually... you-know-who.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
So if there is a plaque honouring local heroes of the LGBT movement that has to come down too, because most of the rest of us don't give a fuck? It works both ways.
I don't really care either way. The debate here is about a pretty cheap looking statue of a known slaver that was only erected in the 1960s. The mainland debate is about a guy who meant nothing to us and whose name has only been on streets and buildings here since the 1950s. I just don't consider these things important to our history and am perfectly fine with them staying or going. Deep down I'd probably prefer if both were gone, but only as a thought experiment. I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome at all - they don't please or bother me.

What would bother me is anything I consider to be historically significant being threatened. The Peter Pan statue in Bowring Park, the churches, Devon Row, whatever else. Those I don't want gone no matter who they offend.

As for LGBT stuff, hasn't come up yet but I would get some Joy from a plaque marking our first gay bar from the 60s, or a statue of Gemma Hickey where Mount Cashel once stood. But meh...


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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:03 PM
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The problem is common sense and common ground are lost in a bid to try to accommodate the feelings of individuals, and it can't be done.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:14 PM
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There is work to do on the reconciliation front, but it is possible for proponents to overplay their hand and lose large amounts of goodwill in the process. I think hipsterduck made a really good point in that regard... this is a pretty friendly crowd for those types of ideas generally, but the response to the Sir John A. stuff tells you what you need to know about how it's flying with the broader population.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
But there is an inherent danger in this when the people have had enough and decide that there is only one side that truly shares their views and can be counted on to act upon them.
That's why I love Trump. This whole cancer has been festering for decades and he's brought it into the open where hopefully people can start dealing with it without too much heartache (if that is even possible now). What I am saying is I want it exposed but I don't want the violence that unfortunately is going to come with it.

The elephant in the room has been exposed. We know Trump is an ahole, now people are starting to find out so are CNN and the New York Times, Hollywood and many others and their leftist agendas. I worked in the national media into the early 90s and the landscape today is unrecognizable. It is a total disgrace.

Just as an example, after Trump's speech the other night, CNN was showing a protest outside the building. Their camera was only aimed at the cops standing there doing nothing after they set off their concussion grenades and smoke bombs. They were just standing there, meanwhile on the other side the masked "protestors" were going apeshit, you could barely see it on the far right of the camera. The cameraman panned right and "accidentally" caught a "protestor" throwing the teargas back at the cops. But you can't have that, he jerked it back left to again show the cops standing there doing nothing. I doubt even today that a cameraman would have done that without a producer yelling in his earpiece to get off it.

In my day you would never show people just standing there you follow where the action is. Anyway CNN is a total joke with their frothing at the mouth "commentators", any pretense at objectivity is long gone.

The left lost the election fair and square and they can't stand it. For the first time in history they can't accept a freely elected leader and want to take him out. That is reprehensible, what if the right had done that to Hillary? They couldn't have anyway because they don't have the controlling power of the national media.

Their latest ploy is to call Trump mentally ill when he is in fact one of the greatest trolls of all time. He has run an end run around them taking them out of the equation of how he delivers his message and they hate him for it.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:37 PM
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Looks like we have a bunch of fragile snowflakes in this thread.

But I wouldn't expect anything more from idiots who actually use the term "SJW" and people who equate anybody with Trump's base of White Supremacist neo-Nazi supporters. Let alone defend them and find it hilarious while he pushes his bigoted policies. People like elly63 are more repulsive than any supposed "SJW" I've ever come across; you have to be mentally ill to find the suffering of minorities under a reprehensible White Supremacist some stroke of genius.

Discussions can't be had exactly because of the reactions in this thread. White fragility on display every single time social issues even come up regardless of what is being discussed. Canada isn't the progressive nation many believe it to be, I'm just glad the disgusting shit expressed in this thread is the exception rather than the norm and you, eventually, will die out.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bkd View Post
Looks like we have a bunch of fragile snowflakes in this thread.

But I wouldn't expect anything more from idiots who actually use the term "SJW" and people who equate anybody with Trump's base of White Supremacist neo-Nazi supporters.

Discussions can't be had exactly because of the reactions in this thread. White fragility on display every single time social issues even come up regardless of what is being discussed.
I don't feel guilty about being white as apparently you do. I've never knowingly prevented anybody from following their dreams in a free country like Canada where they are free to do so. If you're non white and feel that way I'm happy for you, but you are sorely misguided. If you're white and feel that way you are misguided and pathetic.

We've been following what seems like your policies for how long 40 years? Are the people you seem to represent better off after these so many years? Maybe it's time we went back to a little individual responsibility and taking responsibility for one's own actions instead of blaming others.

How about "mensching" up?
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bkd View Post
People like elly63 are more repulsive than any supposed "SJW" I've ever come across; you have to be mentally ill to find the suffering of minorities under a reprehensible White Supremacist some stroke of genius.
Name calling of someone you don't know, instead of logic, reasoning and discourse, par for the course. You mentioned colour instead of the contents of one's character which by your acknowledging of colour is the very basis of racism. How about discussing whether a person is decent or not regardless of colour.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:47 PM
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Congrats SHWs you just turned me against most of your causes.
When is BC getting a new name? Any problem the natives ever had on this continent can be traced directly back to Columbus.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:47 PM
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I remember posting a few months ago in another thread that I thought we were at the early stages of a new era wrt aboriginal issues in this country. And that as part of the learning curve there would be cases of "overreach" that would give rise to push back and, one hopes, a new accommodation with broad support. The debate (if there is a debate) re John A's place in Canada's history could be our first real example of this. I suppose it's inevitable that this would play out at the level of symbolic issues, as dealing with the substantive issues is beyond the capacity of civil society or the timeframe of activists.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:48 PM
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When is BC getting a new name? Any problem the natives ever had on this continent can be traced directly back to Columbus.
I believe that left wing governments in a couple of Latin American countries did remove monuments to Columbus in recent years.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkd View Post
Looks like we have a bunch of fragile snowflakes in this thread.

But I wouldn't expect anything more from idiots who actually use the term "SJW" and people who equate anybody with Trump's base of White Supremacist neo-Nazi supporters. Let alone defend them and find it hilarious while he pushes his bigoted policies. People like elly63 are more repulsive than any supposed "SJW" I've ever come across; you have to be mentally ill to find the suffering of minorities under a reprehensible White Supremacist some stroke of genius.

Discussions can't be had exactly because of the reactions in this thread. White fragility on display every single time social issues even come up regardless of what is being discussed. Canada isn't the progressive nation many believe it to be, I'm just glad the disgusting shit expressed in this thread is the exception rather than the norm and you, eventually, will die out.
It would probably be useful to remind yourself that probably 90-95% of the people on this thread vote either NDP or Liberal.

Your position is becoming an increasingly lonely place.
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