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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
I don't. That kind of thinking is the same crap that idiot planners and politicians in this state are already using to build a suburban hell hole.
consolidating sports venues creates suburbia?
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 1:21 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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no, building things and then tearing them down creates garbage. If you build up a value of a neighborhood, and then take away what created it's value, you get ghettos.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 1:59 AM
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Theres just really no need to consolidate sports stadiums. The football stadiums due to footballs nature arent programmed all the time but UofP does alright with holding big events and expos in it during the offseason. Chase Field has 81 home games a year and the smaller arenas like Jobing, USAC and WFA are super busy.

Like I said you can not redo WFA and make it into a NHL caliber arena without flatting it and totally redoing it, Im not sure why you're insisting that you can. First off the capacity would be far too low as it is right now, then you toss a hockey rink in there and you're going to lose more seats. Then add in another concourse, suits, widening the existing concourse, etc....getting the picture? It was designed to be a medium sized venue (large by college standards) not a pro arena.

Also I don't really think any of our current stadiums are in 'sprawling' locations. The ones in Glendale are 'inside' the 101 after all and while they were formerly cotton fields its not as if that land wouldn't have just filled up w/ stucco boxes anyhow. Some of the Spring Training stadiums, Goodyear, Surprise, etc may be in sprawling locations but our big stadiums really aren't that far away from current and soon to be coming population centers.
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:24 AM
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Rio Salado Park:

I've mentioned this before but since this is the big idea thread, Id like to see the Rio Salado project improved and greatly expanded. Currently the project is underwhelming to me. While its a nice wild life refuge, its not much for human use. There's a few hiking trails, but there's not near enough diversity of use. What I'd like to see (assuming we'll never see the river filled w/ water) is from Priest to 19th Ave the river bed turned into basically a huge 9 mile linear park, think the Indian Bend Wash on steroids (minus the testicle shrinking).

My (very rough) estimate is the park would be about 1,200 acres which is about the same size as Papago Park but it would be in a much different shape obviously. That would make it larger than both Golden Gate Park in San Fran and Central Park. Because of its location and shape it could be a main spine in a connected Phoenix parks system. Phoenix has gone a great job with our desert and mountain preserves but a very poor job on traditional parks, Id imagine an expanded Rio Salado Park to be a combination of both (nature preserve and traditional park, not poor job and good job).

The park would be large enough to host a championship length golf course with the course meandering through the bed of the river and up onto its banks. It could also have various lakes, ponds and streams. A wide variety of trails of varying difficulty could traverse the park, some paved, some unpaved as well as specific bridle paths. There could be open sports fields for football, soccer and baseball in the river bed or in open space along the banks. Perhaps in the future if the Twins, Cardinals or Astros moved to Phoenix for Spring Training there site could be on one of the banks adjacent to the riverbed.

I like how today you can drive over Central Ave and look down into the riverbed on the West side and see this thick stand of trees (the same is true of the river bed east of the 101/202 interchange), its beautiful. Id love to see that extended and programmed more and planned out carefully to bring a great mix of traditional park elements and nature preserve.

Of course it would be exceedingly important to smartly rezone the areas surrounding the river. No ones going to visit it if its still a bunch of warehouses on all sides. The city could zone for mixed use probably no higher than 8 stories but not lower than 3. Hopefully the park would be enough of an incentive to attract development around it and it could be the thing that finally makes South Phoenix (or that portion of it anyhow) at least somewhat livable. A LRT spur running down Central w/ a stop at the trailhead just North of the riverbed would be nice as well.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:25 AM
Tranquility Tranquility is offline
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So you think the gal I talked to (wish I could remember this cunts name) would appreciate someone trying to get involved and point me in the right direction, right?
LOL. Luckily, there are no women on this webpage.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Rio Salado Park:

I've mentioned this before but since this is the big idea thread, Id like to see the Rio Salado project improved and greatly expanded. Currently the project is underwhelming to me... assuming we'll never see the river filled w/ water...
I was actually preparing to post something about this.

I would love to see the Salt River flow again to the way it once was. I understand the reason why it does not flow, we need to hold the water for, basically, our lives. But I think it would just add a real sense of culture and pride for our city to have the river flow year round, not just when our dams get full.

I know this is impossible because, where would be get our water from? But this is a visionary thread. I sure can dream.

I think the only way to allow for the river to flow would be if every house and building could be designed to collect every drop of water that falls on its roof during our storms could be collected into individual cisterns. I know this would not be enough for us to even take a shower with, but it could be the start in the right direction to allow the Salt River flow one day.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 2:00 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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I'm in favor of demolishing BOB/Chase and redesigning it so it isn't a 17-story high fortress that is an abomination to the city's skyline.

I recently went out to Glendale to check things out. Westgate is (currently) a failure. Whatever happened to "Phase II"? Are any of the offices rented (besides Ellman Co)? Why anyone would rent an apartment in the parking lot of a football stadium is beyond me. I'm going to assume that the only tenants are servers/bartenders to the restaurants close by.

This development was basically a scam/promise to the city of Glendale in order to receive millions of tax dollars.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 11:00 PM
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Oh another big idea, One Million Trees for Phoenix. Admitadly this is a blatant rip off of something they're doing in Los Angeles but its a great idea. Through public and private means there needs to be a massive urban forestry project undertaken in Phoenix.

The positive effects it would have are numerous. First and most obvious would be city beautification. Phoenix's built environment is rarely beautiful which is unfortunate as our climate dictates certain challenges that could be answered with beautiful local buildings. Due to that same unique climate we have a lot of unique vegetation that could be planted to soften the citys hardscape. Phoenix probably has fewer trees per square mile than any other major city I'd bet. Planting the million trees should also have planting more shrubs, flowers, cacti, etc as part of it.

Secondly would be the environmental impact. It would help combat the urban heat island which is getting worse and worse. Anyone driving into Arcadia at night in the summer in a convertible can notice the drop in temperature due to all the trees there, it would be nice if more of the city was like that. It would also probably help (though only minutely) with the smog and air quality issues we have.

Third there would be a public health benefit. The cooler temperatures and most importantly the shade provided by the trees would mean less incidences of heat related illness and heat stroke and that seems a worthy goal in it of itself.

Finally more trees in medians, sidewalk planters, public spaces, pocket parks, etc would increase property values. It would make places more visually pleasant and desirable. It could also help sensor a better sense of place with different neighborhoods adopting different cohesive planting patterns to give a coordinated look.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 11:08 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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All we need is Mike Meyers as the spokesman for the TV campaign.

"ONE MILLION TREES!!"
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 1:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Oh another big idea, One Million Trees for Phoenix. Admitadly this is a blatant rip off of something they're doing in Los Angeles but its a great idea. Through public and private means there needs to be a massive urban forestry project undertaken in Phoenix.
The problem with this idea is that we are in a desert, there will never be the amount of tree density and shade as Seattle or Denver which is why we have to focus more on architectural solutions. I know you don't like the indoor mall idea but there are ways you can adapt design to accommodate varying weather conditions.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PhxPavilion View Post
The problem with this idea is that we are in a desert, there will never be the amount of tree density and shade as Seattle or Denver which is why we have to focus more on architectural solutions. I know you don't like the indoor mall idea but there are ways you can adapt design to accommodate varying weather conditions.
There are quite a few trees in the desert, especially the Sonoran. In fact its the wettest desert in the world. Nowhere did I say we should have the dense type trees of Seattle or Denver either. We can plant lots more mesquites, palo brea, palo verde and the like. They'll take a good bit of watering to get established but then they can survive on rainfall. Big grassy lawns and non native trees are the problem water wise, not native trees.

Thats not to say architectural shade features shouldn't be pursued as well, they should. The Urban Form guidelines have whole sections on awnings, permeable pavers, orientating buildings to shield from the sun, etc. Indoor malls are a lazy solution though, they create dead streetscapes and a dull city.

EDIT: VVV Id like something like that as well, but I think another alternative for the land owners would be replacing the dirt lots with green space. That could be mini orchards, public gardens, small parks, etc.

Last edited by HooverDam; Aug 17, 2009 at 4:51 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 4:25 AM
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You're all such big dreamers. All I want is for the City of Phoenix to have a 500% property tax on parking lots that are not at least 25% commercial. Owners can avoid this property tax by either a)building something of value or b)covering lot with solar panels that feeds the power grid.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 3:37 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxPavilion View Post
The problem with this idea is that we are in a desert, there will never be the amount of tree density and shade as Seattle or Denver which is why we have to focus more on architectural solutions. I know you don't like the indoor mall idea but there are ways you can adapt design to accommodate varying weather conditions.
Phoenix has potential. Just look at Arcadia. The LA Basin is a desert too. That whole area would be grasslands and scrub brush, very similar to the natural scape around the "Hollywood" sign. Prior to the 1920's there were no Palm trees in LA, they were brought in to make the city more 'exotic'. When I was in SF, I talked to a Park Ranger at the Coit Tower, he told me that every tree you see in present day SF was planted and the SF peninsula was primarily sandy hills. It almost never rains in SD with the exception of a few winter storms that actually make it that far south along the coast.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2009, 5:31 PM
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I got this email today which is sort of related to coming up with big ideas for Phoenix:

Quote:
Come join Radiate Phoenix, on August 25th from 5:30 to 7:30 at Hanny's (40 N. 1st Street, Phoenix) and answer the question "What do you value most about Phoenix?" This is the first "big question" we will be asking during the visioning phase of the Phoenix General Plan Update.

Please rsvp by going to the Radiate Phoenix website - http://radiatephx.ning.com/
Radiate Phoenix is thecommunity networking group of people who care about place making, design, community building, and our vital urban core.
Ive attended a couple of these radiate things, theyre pretty cool (I met Silverbear at one too!) and maybe this will be a good place to dream, think and talk big and have it actually be heard.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 4:21 AM
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Another idea I had was one for the Centennial. Sadly with the current state budget issues we'll probably have a pretty shittastic Centennial with very little accomplished for it. My idea was to create a "Centennial Statuary Walk" from City Hall to the State Capitol building of statues. I think in general the City has done pretty good with the public art program, but its all very abstract and 21st Century type of stuff. I like that very much, but this city needs a lot more of the traditional important guy turned into a statue sort of art.

So you could have 100 statues (or more, but that number of course seems fitting) between the City Hall and State Capitol of people who have been important to the City, State and County. The people who were more instrumental with state affairs near the state buildings, the city people near the city buildings, etc. You'd of course include plaques to tell what the person had done and it would perhaps serve as some bit of a connection between Downtown and the Capitol which we once had but lost so long ago. Plus it would maybe help people have a better sense of Phoenix and Arizona history which is fascinating but mostly unknown.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 7:03 AM
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Man, are there really 100 people from this state that are worth memorializing in a statue? When you think of famous Arizonans, they are usually criminals. The Clantons, Keeting, Symington, Renzi, etc...
Goldwater, Corbett, Mofford, Greenway, um...that's all I got.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 8:08 AM
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Goldwater, Corbett, Mofford, Greenway, um...that's all I got.
Like Hoover said, we have a lot of great history, but most of it is unknown. I mean think about it, Arizona has only been a state 97 years, but we have been inhabited by 'modern' man since the 1700's. I'm sure historians could list off 100 people, 100 good people, who are important to the state without even thinking about it.

Just off the top of my head...
Dorothy Gilbert... led campaign to preserve the mountains in and around Phoenix
Juan Bautista de Anza... spanish explorer
John Wesley Powell... explorer who navigated the Colorado River
Frank Lloyd Wright... considered worlds greatest architect
Cesar Chavez... founder of the United Farm Workers
Pat Tillman... NFL player turned soldier

I'm not sure if some of the people I have above is what Hoover means by "people who have been important", but my point is that there are tons of people who have meant a lot to the State of Arizona.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 5:04 PM
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^ would sandra day o'connor count?...
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 5:29 PM
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^How many statues do we need for Pat Tillman? The guy got killed by friendly fire. While he is infinitely more heroic than that Piestewa squaw, I don't think we need a statue of him in every part of town.

But ya, I guess you could do influential people TO the state, not necessarily FROM the state. Swilling, Kino, Del Webb, O'Conner, Rehnquist, Goldwater, Babbitt, a couple Udalls, FLW, Zane Grey....ya, I guess you could do a bunch. They might lose their importance after about 10 though. At some point, someone will say, we need a Randy Johnson/Curt Schilling statue or some nonsense like that and the whole project will be a joke.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 6:43 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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I vote for 1,000 pots being placed along valley freeways as this would both create a visionary display of what public art can and should be, and would bring the neighborhoods closer when everyone gathers around the pots to make friends.
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