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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:26 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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It looks like the biggest problem with the games is the track and field stadium/opening closing ceremony stadium. It's a white elephant, with a double whammy of needing a big field and a huge capacity.

Atlanta's was reconstructed after, Athens's filled a void, Sydney's was reconstructed after, Beijing's is never used and might be converted to a shopping center after, London's will be reconstructed after.

Building a new one and reconstructing it would be fine if we didn't have enough similar size venues already.
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combusean View Post
It looks like the biggest problem with the games is the track and field stadium/opening closing ceremony stadium. It's a white elephant, with a double whammy of needing a big field and a huge capacity.

Atlanta's was reconstructed after, Athens's was there already, Sydney's was reconstructed after, Beijing's is never used and might be converted to a shopping center after, London's will be reconstructed after.

Building a new one and reconstructing it would be fine if we didn't have enough similar size venues already.
LA's was used twice, has been used by USC football, and has been used intermittently for NFL... but as I already said, football sucks in there. If you've ever been to a game there, you know what I mean. The field is off to one side with bleachers built on the field (leaving rows of seats unused behind them and in complete disrepair as you walk in that end of the stadium), and the proportions are still wrong side to side.

Although I still disagree that that's the biggest obstacle for a Phoenix olympics. Let's all be honest, the biggest obstacle for a Phoenix olympics is what Don said.
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Don B. View Post
I don't see the Olympics ever coming to a cheap lowest-common-denominator state like Arizona.

People shoot each other over taxes here for crying out loud.

--don
Sometimes I think you sound like the curmudgeony old battleaxes that makes this place what it is. =P You forget the thread title. The people commenting would like to think Phoenix will be different by then.

People don't shoot each other here over taxes. And as I said above most of the funds to pay for it would come out of money that's already purposed to things like Spring Training and football anyway. The biggest one that would be new is transportation which has to happen anyway.

Arizona shows an odd amount of practicality in how backwards it is. Natural outgrowths of existing industries are practical which is what the Olympics ultimately are. Stadia on the order of half a billion dollars that aren't needed to begin with are not.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:14 AM
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***WARNING LONG POST AHEAD*****

Did anyone see the article today in the Republic about Sun Devil Stadium? Its in desperate need of repairs, its 50 years old, by the time Phoenix had a realistic chance at the Olympics it would be over 60. They could do repairs on it or....hello new Olympic stadium. With UofP being available, ASU could temporarily play there while you demolish SDS (and trust me I love that place and would be sad to see it go) and put in an Olympic stadium that holds 80-90K then can be paired down to 60-70K for ASU. You can't use UofP like has been mentioned because there's no room for a track, but in a new stadium in Tempe you could do it.

I disagree with this notion that Phoenix wouldn't tax itself for something like the Olympics. Phoenix is still a conservative town and while it likely won't vote to tax itself over things that are viewed as kinda leftist or whatever I think they would for sports arenas/infrastructure (the past 40 years attest to this). This Valley is sports bug nutty and would jump at the chance I think to go for an Olympic bid.

As far as when like I said before I think Africa has the inside track on 2020, 2024 would be the very earliest and by that point it would've been 28 years since the US had the games.

Glynnjamin, the problem with your idea about spreading things out across the state is the IOC doesn't really love that. A big draw for London was that the average Olympian traveling from their village to the event would only have a 20 minute commute. Obviously there's no way we'd be able to match that, but for the most part we'd want to try to limit commutes to 40 minutes maximum.

The exception would be Soccer which has so many teams every host city outsources some of the earlier matches (Atlanta had games in Florida & Alabama). Luckily Arizona Stadium in Tucson & the Walkup Skydome in Flagstaff (which would have to have field turf put in) would work ideally. Again I don't think you can count on Chase Field for many events as its the D'backs season and they're not going to want to risk destroying their field. Incidentally, Im sure the D'backs would love the spillover boost in attendance they'd see from all the foreign visitors going to their first major league baseball game.

As far as an Olympic village goes I hadn't thought of the Railyards, thats interesting because it would feed more directly into downtown and that would certainly be a good thing. It wouldn't have super direct access to LRT but I guess the short 2 or 3 block walk up to the 12th St stations wouldn't be too bad. And if you had a stop at Central & Lincoln on a Southbound line that could serve the Village as well. Additionally, perhaps a temporary stop along the Commuter/HSR could be made for the Olympic Village.

Atlanta used housing from their Olympic village after the game as Residential housing for GaTech which would be a model I'd hope PHX would follow, the Olympic Village could become the campus of a new university.

Breaking the topic down into two categories here's what we'd need/the best fits in my estimation:

Infrastructure:
  • Cross state High Speed Rail: You'd want to use the opportunity to build rail from Nogales to Williams (with then likely a shuttle taking people to the Canyon) and then onto Las Vegas. Also a Phx-LA connection to help get people in/out of the city.
  • Commuter rail: this just piggy backs on the HSR system really in the "X" shape we saw that MAG put out a while back
  • Rehabbed/revitalized Phx Union Station w/ either a people mover or shuttle to a...
  • New Phx Central Terminal, a real terminal not just a bus stop
  • Vastly expanded LRT:
    • to Downtown Glendale & Westgate via Glendale ave. LRT down Thomas Rd West connecting to Criket.
    • North up 51st Ave going by Maryvale stadium, through Downtown Glendale and onto ASU West.
    • Expand the East leg to Stapley & Main in Mesa (w/ shuttles taking people to HoHoKam park).
    • LRT or modern streetcar connecting Papago Park/DBG/Zoo/Phx Muni, across McDowell and up to Old Town S'Dale and S'Dale stadium
    • LRT south on Central Ave to Ed Pastor Transit Center (especially if the Village is on the riverbanks)
  • Make sure Terminal 4 expansion and Terminal 2 rebuild are finished in time to handle increased loads
  • Increase capacity at Phx-Mesa Gateway airport as a reliever airport
  • Replace Convention Center South building w/ a new matching building, likely wouldn't need to span the entire block maybe something slightly larger than the West building
  • Increase (double?) Downtown Phx hotel space
  • New Central Ave Bridge (explained later)

As far as the Olympic Village goes I really can't decide if I think a River Centric spot or something on the rail yards would be better. I like the Railyards because it feeds into downtown, but would UP go for that? The River area has a lot more open space and would likely lead to everyone's dream of the Salt Flowing, so thats a wonderful long term effect. I think my gut would lean towards a Salt River Centric site, take a look at this aerial from Expo 67 in Montreal to get an idea:



While Combusean is right that there's a big suitable parcel over by 19th Ave, I think its a beat too off the beaten path/not along potential LRT to be suitable. It would be better suited as a place displaced businesses from an Olympic Village around Central Ave could move to. Here's where I'd envision the Village going (with the river flowing all the way from Tempe to 19th Ave):



Thats a pretty huge grouping of parcels totaling approx. 281 acres according to Google Maps (NW quadrant: 99 acres, NE: 15 acres, SW: 122 acres, SE: 45 acres). I don't think just the Village proper would take up nearly all of that but due to the airport and its location you'd likely want to cap all the buildings at 80-100 feet so it would only be moderately dense at best.

Also that area could house on the South Bank a new Spring Training facility (2 of out of the 3: Cardinals/Astros/Twins) and its fields (or those could go over by 19th ave as well) which would of course be used as an Olympic venue then afterwards be re-purposed for Spring Training.

Before you fill in the river though I think you'd want to demolish the Central Ave bridge and build a new one. One that carries both automobiles, pedestrians, bikes and a LRT over the river. Great cities have great bridges and that could be Phoenix's lone opportunity to build a great bridge.

OK onto the Venues:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combusean
How many people can the Convention Center conceivably fit for an athletic event?
I couldn't find this info anywhere. I even called and asked how many they had for that Celebrity Game they had there but the only info they had was 125K for the entire game session, not how many actually sat and watched the Celeb Game. My guess would be about 5K though from what it looked like on TV.

Here's how Id preliminarily break down events between venues:
  • Sun Devil/Olympic Stadium: Track & Field/Opening & Closing ceremonies
  • USAC: Basketball & Handball
  • Jobing.com: Gymnastics
  • Veterans Memorial Coliseum: Swimming/Diving, etc
  • UofP Stadium: Soccer
  • Wells Fargo Arena: Boxing, Judo, Taekwondo
  • Scottsdale Stadium: Field Hockey
  • HoHoKam Park: Soccer
  • Maryvale Stadium: Archery
  • Phoenix Muni: Shooting (Ben Avery is good too but SO far away, trying to keep things central & transit proximate)
  • (New) Rio Salado Spring Training stadium: Tennis
  • Dodge Theater: Table Tennis
  • Phoenix Convention Center: Fencing, weightlifting
  • Mona Plummer Aquatics Center: Water Polo
  • Westworld: Equestrian
  • Salt River: Canoeing/rowing, potentially sailing (if enough room)
  • Lake Pleasant: Sailing (if Salt River is too small)
  • TPC Scottsdale: Golf (if added)
  • (New) Small Glendale "Main Street"/Westgate arena: Volleyball
  • (New) Velodrome @ Olympic Village: Cycling
  • (New) Beach Volleyball @ Olympic village: Beach Volleyball
  • (New) MLS Stadium in Mesa or Olympic Village: Soccer
  • Arizona Stadium (Tucson): Soccer
  • Walkup Skydome (Flagstaff): Soccer

For the odd sort of multi area events like Modern Pentathlon and such you would try to have them in and around the Olympic Village/Park as much as possible as I know the IOC likes things huddled together for obvious reasons.

Something like the Velodrome could be designed in mind to convert to a large Student Rec Center/Arena for the new College that the Olympic Village would become.

If Phoenix did decide to aggressively pursue a MLS team theres some ideal space along Main St & Dobson in Mesa where a 20K soccer specific stadium could go, it would have to be an indoor stadium & that spot provides enough room for a roll out field. Or depending on room and what Phx wanted to do perhaps that facility could go as part of the Olympic Village area. A further benefit to this would be that since MLS is a summer sport the College could use it for football way down the line, graduations, big events, etc.

HoHoKam Park is one of the larger Cactus League facilities and could be expanded a bit for soccer matches that are expected to be less well attended.

Divvying up the events like I've done keeps most everything in just a few zones: Central Phx (Downtown, Coliseum, Olympic Villaga @ Rio Salado), Glendale Westgate & ASU Tempe. You've got a few events in places like Mesa, Scottsdale & perhaps Peoria (Lake Pleasant) to get further buy in from those cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
I'd be in favor of it if they would bulldoze down Garfield and take over the whole sq. mile and build an urban village with thousands of units to house the athletes during the games and new residents afterwards.
Thats a terrible idea. Have you learned nothing from Phoenix tearing down entire historic neighborhoods in the past? Sure parts of Garfield are crappy right now, but once Downtown finally turns around and becomes the 'it' place to be, Garfield will be turn around as well and be a greater feeder neighborhood for Downtown. Your proposal is reminiscent of all the awful 'urban revitalization' plans of the mid century that gave us places like Cabrini Green.
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:31 AM
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I think, generally speaking, a lot of us see the potential for Phoenix to do something BIG and create a name for itself. When it comes right down to it, while it is easy to say Phoenix would never get it, I think a lot of people felt that way about Atlanta. It just took someone as high-powered as Ted Turner and the Time Warner empire to make that happen. What we need here are big time thinkers with big time budgets. Unfortunately, we have pushed the only one we have left out - Colangelo.

I like all of the ideas and I think they could all work. The money is obviously not there NOW but it could be. The opportunity will present itself to re-build Sun Devil Stadium or the Memorial Colosseum and someone will have to step up and say - "What if..."

Ultimately, this would not be a Phoenix thing - it would have to be an AZ, LA, LV, USA thing. We would need funding help from everyone who would benefit. In reality, places like Vegas and LA would benefit hugely from a Phoenix Olympics and we would need to convince them of that. The money and coordination could be there but it requires the strength and will that may not ever appear.
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:35 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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You guys are really getting into this...

Phoenix is not getting the summer olympics anyway, so....
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
You guys are really getting into this...

Phoenix is not getting the summer olympics anyway, so....
What would you say are the major differences between Atlanta in 1996 and Phoenix in say 2024? What huge, insurmountable advantages did Atlanta have over Phoenix?
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:47 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Um atlanta is a much larger city, is on the east coast closer to a lot of population, and isn't 120 degrees. Yes i know its humid but 120 is 120.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
Um atlanta is a much larger city,
Much larger? They have about 1 million more at present time and we're talking about 2024 here, Phoenix will surely eclipse Atlantas 1996 population by then if it hasn't yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
is on the east coast closer to a lot of population,
That is a challenge, but rail to Vegas and LA and an expanded sky harbor can help overcome that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
and isn't 120 degrees. Yes i know its humid but 120 is 120.
How often is it 120 in September in Phoenix? Average temps for Sept in Phx is 99/75 in Atlanta in July (when their games were) its 89/71 with humidity.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:00 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Thats a whole 10 degrees. Athletes will be in danger training and competing outdoors + phoenix is not a world class city anyway. Too many slums here and a poor, undereducated population make us a joke to a lot of the world.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
Thats a whole 10 degrees. Athletes will be in danger training and competing outdoors
Huh? Look at the event list/venue list, a LOT of the events are indoors. The new olympic stadium could be built similar to the new Tampa Bay Rays stadium w/ a retractable shade sales and other cooling features. It was in the mid 80s in Beijing and athletes had to breath thick smog, Im sure they'd do A-OK here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
+ phoenix is not a world class city anyway.
Neither were Atlanta or SLC before their Olympics (you may say they still aren't)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
Too many slums here and a poor, undereducated population make us a joke to a lot of the world.
Yep, no poor people in China, I forgot.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:13 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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I have ran (cross country mostly) all my life. I also walk golf courses. Humidity feels miserable, but doesnt affect your body and dehydrate you as bas as the dry 100+ temps do here.

Denver, chicago, dallas, miami, new york, and probably a few others would be ahead of us on any list, i'd think.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
I have ran (cross country mostly) all my life. I also walk golf courses. Humidity feels miserable, but doesnt affect your body and dehydrate you as bas as the dry 100+ temps do here.

Denver, chicago, dallas, miami, new york, and probably a few others would be ahead of us on any list, i'd think.
Certainly at this moment they are, but that doesn't preclude Phoenix from leap frogging them or make it impossible. Atlanta was a dark horse as well, Phoenix already has a world class sports infrastructure and thats a big advantage. Additionally its in a state thats known the world over for its diverse beauty and people Im sure would love to use the Olympics as an excuse to come check it out.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:41 AM
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
People don't shoot each other here over taxes. And as I said above most of the funds to pay for it would come out of money that's already purposed to things like Spring Training and football anyway. The biggest one that would be new is transportation which has to happen anyway.
I quote from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Field

The iissue was so controversial and divisive that in August 1997, Maricopa County Supervisor Mary Rose Wilcox was shot and injured while leaving a county board meeting by Larry Naman, a homeless man, who attempted to argue in court that her support for the tax justified his attack. In May 1998, Naman was found guilty of attempted first-degree murder.

LOL. Only in Phoenix.

I stand by my comments. We can't even build a single 500+ foot skyscraper. Fucking Des Moines, Iowa and Mobile, Alabama have taller skyscrapers than Phoenix, yet we have more than three times the population of both of those cities combined. We have a state capitol that is worse than perhaps 47 other state capitol buildings. We are a cheap-assed state that doesn't want to pay for anything. It took three tries to pass funding for a real mass transit system like light rail. Remember Valtrans in 1989? Went down in flames with 68% of the vote against it. Our property taxes are less than half what many other states have, yet most people here can only see as far as their pocketbook and are moaning about a piddly 2% food tax increase, even though most of them are overweight and could afford to give up those two snickers bars this would affect in a $100 grocery purchase. They'd rather have Phoenix lay off 500 cops than tax themselves eight candy bars a year for a couple of years until our sales-tax-based-economy starts coming back to life.

The sooner you realize just how tight and ignorant the voters are here, the sooner you will stop with these fantasies of Olympic glory. After all, Phoenix was the only major city that was carried by McCain and Phoenix voters have re-elected Sheriff Joe four times. I guarantee you most elderly and conservative voters here who like these folks don't like big "gummint," and sure as hell don't want those damned "Olympic whippersnappers" clogging up traffic.



Our Centennial, by the way, next year, is going to be a couple of white tents on Tempe Beach Park with the Gin Blossoms playing. Our state and local governments are nearly so dysfunctional at the moment, they are selling off their office buildings for pennies on the dollar and leasing them back, a most asinine and stupid myopic step ever taken by local governments.

--don

P.S. Atlanta is way bigger than Phoenix. Atlanta's metro population is almost 6 million, we are barely past 4 million, and their per capita income is considerably higher, resulting in a gross economic footprint that is almost twice the size of Phoenix, if not more.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:52 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Thank you don for saying what i wanted to, yet couldnt find the words or facts, to say.
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
Thank you don for saying what i wanted to, yet couldnt find the words or facts, to say.
Waaa? Who are you and what have you done with the John that we have all come to know and love? I'm going to bronze this post...



--don
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:10 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Im just sayin' i was right and you backed me up. Thanks.

I still think youre a weirdo. Hahha
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 4:34 AM
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Don, you are entitled to your opinions but come on, you're referencing a deranged homeless man? Skyscrapers and Sheriff Joe are a red herring. Valtrans was very poorly executed and MAG/Metro's management wouldn't let that happen on their watch today. We already have enough of a precedent with building athletic venues which cross the left/right spectrum.

Most importantly, the people on this board will only become more able to effect change as they grow older and the NIMBYs will just die off to be replaced by people that feel closer to the way we do.

And yes, people are going to bitch about new taxes in a recession. The 2006 Phoenix bond would have never passed in today's economic climate, which is why it's important to have a plan ready for the next boom.
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 6:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don B. View Post

P.S. Atlanta is way bigger than Phoenix. Atlanta's metro population is almost 6 million, we are barely past 4 million, and their per capita income is considerably higher, resulting in a gross economic footprint that is almost twice the size of Phoenix, if not more.
Its funny how you always find a way to word things negatively about Phoenix lately. They're "almost" at 6 and we're "barely" past 4. What was the Atlanta area's population in '96? I can't seem to find any good info on it quickly but Im sure it was less than where Phoenix will be in 2024.

Further Georgia's 2nd City, Augusta (#95 at 534,218) is significantly smaller MSA than Tucson (#52 at 1,012,018). Though Georgia on a whole is considerably large (by about 3.2M) a lot of that is rural/small town population that Id assume (just guessing here) has less disposable income. Phoenix is very easy to travel to from LA, SD, LV and ABQ and all of those areas are growing rapidly and will continue to through 2024, like Glynnjamin mentioned it would of course have to be a regional effort.

Further the Phoenix MSA is almost the exact size of the Sydney metroplex, bigger than all of Catalonia and about the size of Catalonia and Madrid combined, bigger than Montreal currently and certainly much bigger than that city was in 76.

So looking only at a raw population number isn't really telling the whole story, Phoenix and Arizona are certainly large enough (though on the smaller side now, but likely more on the average size by 2024) population wise. The Census Bureau predicted at one time a 64% increase in Arizona's population between 2000 and 2020, lets say thats way too aggressive and go with just a more conservative 40% that would put us at over 7 million which seems like a considerably large enough number to me.

You're right about Atlantas superior per capita income and economic base, but its not like per capita income is exactly through the roof in places like Beijing or Rio. Plus you have to think if Phoenix shooting for the Olympics in 2024 or whenever as part of a plan to help grow things like that, it would mean more jobs in areas we're already strong (construction, tourism) and new jobs in white collar fields like marketing.

No city thats not an Alpha World City is going to be a perfect fit for the Olympics in its present form, but why should the Olympics go to some place like LA or NY again? Seems kinda lame to me but thats just a personal opinion.

The real downside to Phoenix is the heat, thats concern #1-10 in my book, if you can find ways through scheduling, stadium and infrastructure design, city wide shade programs, etc to deal with that, then you're cooking. Phoenix already has world class (and I do mean world class) athletic facilities and Arizona already has proven it can throw a big party and is great w/ tourism, lets just hope guys like John Junker and Jerry Colangelo live long enough and have the vision to get the ball rolling on something like this.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
***WARNING LONG POST AHEAD*****
We need more long posts on this topic. I didn't think anyone shared the idea of the Phoenix Olympics

Quote:
Did anyone see the article today in the Republic about Sun Devil Stadium? Its in desperate need of repairs, its 50 years old, by the time Phoenix had a realistic chance at the Olympics it would be over 60. They could do repairs on it or....hello new Olympic stadium.
Yes.

Quote:
With UofP being available, ASU could temporarily play there while you demolish SDS (and trust me I love that place and would be sad to see it go) and put in an Olympic stadium that holds 80-90K then can be paired down to 60-70K for ASU. You can't use UofP like has been mentioned because there's no room for a track, but in a new stadium in Tempe you could do it.
Sun Devil Stadium it is.

Quote:
I disagree with this notion that Phoenix wouldn't tax itself for something like the Olympics. Phoenix is still a conservative town and while it likely won't vote to tax itself over things that are viewed as kinda leftist or whatever I think they would for sports arenas/infrastructure (the past 40 years attest to this). This Valley is sports bug nutty and would jump at the chance I think to go for an Olympic bid.
Exactly. My brother loves the idea. lol. Sports arenas are arguably a bigger push because they are professional venues and limited to the public off hours. A velodrome and whitewater park would have certainly enough public use to at least warrant a city subsidy if not be ultimately profitable, and they'd be hosting events in the future that just don't exist here yet. The Olympics would fully round out our craze for building new venues so we could finally focus on other shit.

Quote:
As far as when like I said before I think Africa has the inside track on 2020, 2024 would be the very earliest and by that point it would've been 28 years since the US had the games.
If emerging cities in Africa can get the games there's no reason we shouldn't. We are an emerging city as well.

Quote:
Glynnjamin, the problem with your idea about spreading things out across the state is the IOC doesn't really love that. A big draw for London was that the average Olympian traveling from their village to the event would only have a 20 minute commute. Obviously there's no way we'd be able to match that, but for the most part we'd want to try to limit commutes to 40 minutes maximum.
Athens, GA was 80 miles from Atlanta and I doubt they had rail. An 80 MPH train isn't *that* hard to connect to Tucson. I don't know about other cities tho that are harder to get.

Quote:
The exception would be Soccer which has so many teams every host city outsources some of the earlier matches (Atlanta had games in Florida & Alabama). Luckily Arizona Stadium in Tucson & the Walkup Skydome in Flagstaff (which would have to have field turf put in) would work ideally. Again I don't think you can count on Chase Field for many events as its the D'backs season and they're not going to want to risk destroying their field. Incidentally, Im sure the D'backs would love the spillover boost in attendance they'd see from all the foreign visitors going to their first major league baseball game.
Not having Chase Field available would absolutely suck. I would hope that things could be timed easily and maybe the D-backs could do out-of-town "home" games in other cities (they did this in Monterrey at least once iirc).

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As far as an Olympic village goes I hadn't thought of the Railyards, thats interesting because it would feed more directly into downtown and that would certainly be a good thing. It wouldn't have super direct access to LRT but I guess the short 2 or 3 block walk up to the 12th St stations wouldn't be too bad. And if you had a stop at Central & Lincoln on a Southbound line that could serve the Village as well. Additionally, perhaps a temporary stop along the Commuter/HSR could be made for the Olympic Village.

Atlanta used housing from their Olympic village after the game as Residential housing for GaTech which would be a model I'd hope PHX would follow, the Olympic Village could become the campus of a new university.
Good idea to bring a new university into the discussion. I will factor that in.

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Breaking the topic down into two categories here's what we'd need/the best fits in my estimation:

Infrastructure:
  • Cross state High Speed Rail: You'd want to use the opportunity to build rail from Nogales to Williams (with then likely a shuttle taking people to the Canyon) and then onto Las Vegas. Also a Phx-LA connection to help get people in/out of the city.
I think any mass transit service to those areas is warranted, even if those venues are ultimately needed.

I see this as a two phase approach, where we build at the bare minimum of what we need anyway, and in phase 2 build the Olympic Ideal once mustered by the IOC. Start with 79 MPH diesel electric commuter rail and see what a fully electrified line. The great thing about this whole idea is that puts every other plan for Phoenix in context.

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  • Commuter rail: this just piggy backs on the HSR system really in the "X" shape we saw that MAG put out a while back
  • Rehabbed/revitalized Phx Union Station w/ either a people mover or shuttle to a...
  • New Phx Central Terminal, a real terminal not just a bus stop
Who knows how this works out. A South Central line for LRT would bridge the RR tracks, but the buses are where they're at now. There's a two block empty lot on Central and the tracks with siding space further east.

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  • Vastly expanded LRT:
    • to Downtown Glendale & Westgate via Glendale ave. LRT down Thomas Rd West connecting to Criket.
    • North up 51st Ave going by Maryvale stadium, through Downtown Glendale and onto ASU West.
    • Expand the East leg to Stapley & Main in Mesa (w/ shuttles taking people to HoHoKam park).
    • LRT or modern streetcar connecting Papago Park/DBG/Zoo/Phx Muni, across McDowell and up to Old Town S'Dale and S'Dale stadium
    • LRT south on Central Ave to Ed Pastor Transit Center (especially if the Village is on the riverbanks)
  • Make sure Terminal 4 expansion and Terminal 2 rebuild are finished in time to handle increased loads
  • Increase capacity at Phx-Mesa Gateway airport as a reliever airport
  • Replace Convention Center South building w/ a new matching building, likely wouldn't need to span the entire block maybe something slightly larger than the West building
  • Increase (double?) Downtown Phx hotel space
  • New Central Ave Bridge (explained later)
I think we might not be so lucky in our availability to use the Spring Training facilities. I like the idea of an I-10/101 LRT connection (because that's what they're going to build anyway) and a Glendale Avenue connection with a full on cross-town streetcar on Thomas Rd from Cricket/Desert Sky to Scottsdale CC.

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As far as the Olympic Village goes I really can't decide if I think a River Centric spot or something on the rail yards would be better. I like the Railyards because it feeds into downtown, but would UP go for that?
Yes. The present yards would be used very little if at all if the Picacho yards were built.

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The River area has a lot more open space and would likely lead to everyone's dream of the Salt Flowing, so thats a wonderful long term effect. I think my gut would lean towards a Salt River Centric site, take a look at this aerial from Expo 67 in Montreal to get an idea:



While Combusean is right that there's a big suitable parcel over by 19th Ave, I think its a beat too off the beaten path/not along potential LRT to be suitable.
The Grand Avenue streetcar could connect the Coliseum and go back down 19th Avenue to the river. With LRT down Washington on its way to the 10 we'd fully loop the State Capitol area with transit and connect that sketch central area all the way south.

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It would be better suited as a place displaced businesses from an Olympic Village around Central Ave could move to. Here's where I'd envision the Village going (with the river flowing all the way from Tempe to 19th Ave):



Thats a pretty huge grouping of parcels totaling approx. 281 acres according to Google Maps (NW quadrant: 99 acres, NE: 15 acres, SW: 122 acres, SE: 45 acres). I don't think just the Village proper would take up nearly all of that but due to the airport and its location you'd likely want to cap all the buildings at 80-100 feet so it would only be moderately dense at best.
Both are good candidates. I'm way more inclined to use open parcels of land rather than than force a whole bunch of businesses out. There are pros and cons to each concept. Built out ... a brand new neighborhood of 8 story buildings? Imagine the street scene. 8 storiesish make the best neighborhoods and street scenes (using mostly early 20th century examples but still).

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Also that area could house on the South Bank a new Spring Training facility (2 of out of the 3: Cardinals/Astros/Twins) and its fields (or those could go over by 19th ave as well) which would of course be used as an Olympic venue then afterwards be re-purposed for Spring Training.

Before you fill in the river though I think you'd want to demolish the Central Ave bridge and build a new one. One that carries both automobiles, pedestrians, bikes and a LRT over the river. Great cities have great bridges and that could be Phoenix's lone opportunity to build a great bridge.
Your bridge idea might have sold me on Central Ave. Actually, since it needs to be rebuilt anyway that easily favors the Central Avenue site. The location of the velodrome on the way to South Mountain gives it another point so cyclists can eat up the future Blue Line.

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OK onto the Venues:

I couldn't find this info anywhere. I even called and asked how many they had for that Celebrity Game they had there but the only info they had was 125K for the entire game session, not how many actually sat and watched the Celeb Game. My guess would be about 5K though from what it looked like on TV.
http://www.phoenix.gov/conventioncenter/stackedPlan.pdf

I am assuming two venues are available here--one on the top ballroom and one on the lower level.

Two images I took of the lower level:





8,000 people sounds about right. The competition area for a variety of events could be in the center columned area with good seats on 4 sides and crappy seats on the corners squares.

The upper level:



Shorter roof gives it about 6,000. It could be raised maybe?

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Here's how Id preliminarily break down events between venues:
I'm compiling the 1996-2016 venues into a table sorted by sport along with 1 - 3 options suggested by everyone for Phoenix along with an eyeball estimate of construction costs. Everything should be in context by then.
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