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  #61  
Old Posted May 12, 2008, 9:58 PM
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I don't disagree with you Retro, however, if you assume that Mac wants a location 'as convenient as possible' to Toronto then the QEW and Appleby Line makes sense. Remember, this is an off-shoot of the DeGroote School, which will still be on the main campus--therefore locating in Downtown Toronto (already U of T territory as previously stated) doesn't make logisitical sense and would be a high-cost alternative. Secondly, as nice as Downtown Hamilton would be--I doubt it would be worth the expense considering the current proximity of the main campus to downtown.

For everything to "make sense" you have to keep in mind that this isn't so much a second campus as a very specific, singularly focused satellite operation which exists only to churn out Executive MBA degrees. Keeping that in mind ONLY the QEW location makes sense--regardless of opinions to the contrary.
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  #62  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
Please provide statistics of these claims. Please provide evidence that Hamilton has fewer MBA positions than Burlington. The basis of your argument is that the school would be better located in Burlington because of higher MBA numbers. I am skeptical that this is the case.

Locating the school in Mississauga would be a non-starter, it is already U of T territory. Milton is already receiving a Laurier campus.

The Mac MBA program could easily occupy upper floors of Stelco Tower or something like that without ever needing to build a new campus.
Statistics to back up what claims? That the QEW in Burlington is closer to Toronto and Mississauga than is downtown Hamilton? Who said anything about higher MBA numbers in Burlington than in Hamilton? How is that the basis of my argument when I did not suggest anything of the sort? What happened to your claim of over 100 MBA employers in downtown Hamilton?
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  #63  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 2:12 AM
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How many major corporations are there in Hamilton and area? There is likely one MBA per business on average with over fifty persons. You do the math. This is my experience with Toronto businesses I can't see Hamilton being any exception to this.

I don't see how the QEW location is convenient at all for anyone. I am ticked anytime that I need to travel to a GTA business park from Toronto CBD. It takes hours out of my day. It is major inconvenience.

If the main campus is in Hamilton for the business what possible advantage will a drive to Burlington be? Business is conducted in the core. The business parks just move things around and store them. Paper flipping is done in the core with the exception of a few spur offices. MBAs would prefer to be downtown.
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  #64  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 2:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BCTed View Post
Statistics to back up what claims? That the QEW in Burlington is closer to Toronto and Mississauga than is downtown Hamilton? Who said anything about higher MBA numbers in Burlington than in Hamilton? How is that the basis of my argument when I did not suggest anything of the sort? What happened to your claim of over 100 MBA employers in downtown Hamilton?
Anyways I can't foresee a modicum of business sense in what you post. From what I can tell, you are not employed downtown and do not know the ins and outs of real business. The MBA community is not negligible in downtown Hamilton. I can't believe people on this thread can tolerate such nonsense being posted without major objections.

Over 9000 people are employed at Canadian headquarters in the Hamilton area.
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  #65  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 2:22 AM
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The Mac poobahs don't do anything without conducting surveys and focus groups. They have consciously decided to become a commuter university servicing the 905, with all that that entails geographically and culturally. No doubt they've done the math and discovered that their target market wants a drive-by education somewhere within easy reach of Mississauga/Brampton/Insert Exurb Here, close to a highway so they don't have to deal with messy downtowns.

Hamilton should start seriously courting U of T for the downtown.
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  #66  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
Anyways I can't foresee a modicum of business sense in what you post. From what I can tell, you are not employed downtown and do not know the ins and outs of real business. The MBA community is not negligible in downtown Hamilton. I can't believe people on this thread can tolerate such nonsense being posted without major objections.

Over 9000 people are employed at Canadian headquarters in the Hamilton area.
"Anyways" what? I may not not have a modicum of business sense, but I am not the one throwing out outlandish and unsupported claims:
- you can think of over 100 potential employers of MBA students in downtown Hamilton "right now"
- You believe that 40,000*3% = 1200 MBAs or potential MBAs work in downtown Hamilton

I have no idea what "9000 people employed at Canadian headquarters in the Hamilton area" even means. Where did that number come from? How do you define Canadian headquarters? How big is the "Hamilton area"? Does this group of 9000 people include cleaning staff?

Many top-tier MBAs look for management consulting and investment banking gigs. Such jobs just do not exist in Hamilton (and the DeGroote MBA school doesn't really open doors to those careers). Various strategy, marketing, accounting, other financial services, et cetera, positions may exist and be deemed MBA-type positions, but I imagine that they are few and far between in downtown Hamilton, where much office space is taken up by call centres and places with primarily administrative type of roles.

I don't think the Burlington campus is a great idea either and I agree that it is not a very convenient location because of QEW congestion, but Burlington is still geographically closer to MBA-type employers than is downtown Hamilton. End of story.
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  #67  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:46 AM
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I just did two quick searches on workopolis.com:

1) I typed in the keyword "MBA" for "Toronto and area".
Number of job postings that popped up: 453

2) I typed in the keyword "MBA" for "Hamilton and area".
Number of job postings that popped up: 5
One of those jobs was in Oakville for an unnamed company and another was for CUMIS in Burlington.

HAMRetrofit, it is time for you to stop talking out of your derriere.
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  #68  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:51 AM
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Sorry BCTed your random search of Workopolis proves absolutely nothing. It is equivalent to searching MLS and listing the number of homes you find there. It is not an indication of anything.
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  #69  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:54 AM
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Sorry BCTed your random search of Workopolis proves absolutely nothing. It is equivalent to searching MLS and listing the number of homes you find there. It is not an indication of anything.
And all of the numbers that you have been throwing out off the top of your head mean something?
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  #70  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 5:14 AM
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I am not saying that they are perfect but they are quite good. I am an experienced financial analyst. I don't have the time right now to do a full analysis but you should presume that I am close to being right.

As someone that could potentially look into doing an MBA one day I have to be honest I would never want to go to Burlington. I like the CBD as the place to conduct business and would want the same environment for my school. All amenities are close and there are synergies with other businesses located close. The business parks are for poor lazy overweight 905ers. They are grossly spread out and difficult to conduct business efficiently. The space is usually terrible and I enjoy commuting to work on rapid transit. I enjoy going to the gym in my building at lunch. The food within close proximity is high end. Nothing in this world could possibly convince me that a suburban business park could offer anywhere near as many amenities as downtown Toronto. I cringe thinking about making trips to the business parks. They are so depressing.

What needs to be done is locate the school in the downtown of Hamilton and run an efficient train service between the cities. Build a solid downtown corporate base using the school as the center.
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  #71  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 1:08 PM
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The business parks are for poor lazy overweight 905ers.
You guys really kill me and you must carry a fairly large brush. You'd have to in order to slag 100's of thousands in a single swipe. Quite the generality, and very telling regarding your opinions of others who are unlike yourself.
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  #72  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 1:50 PM
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Yes, we should really stick to facts and avoid stereotypes and overgeneralizations.

I think it's pretty clear that Mac wants a spot along the QEW near Burlington/Oakville because it's central to the many head offices and business parks located throughout the corridor between Hamilton and Toronto. I'm sure a lot of the courses will be attended by managers from the many smaller companies in that corridor and not necessarily by high level executives from downtown Toronto.
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  #73  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
The business parks are for poor lazy overweight 905ers.
and people who live downtown but can't find work there.

you might add underslept to that list as well, that being my observation from working in one.
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  #74  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 2:25 PM
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I am sorry about that line but it is true.

Most people working in those environments do not like them. When I started my career I was in business park outside of Malton. It was a terrible experience that I would not wish upon anyone. The CBD is preferred by most major execs and those that can afford central Toronto real estate. This is the reality, sorry if it does not correspond to your views of the world. Just try working in one of those single story slaughter houses in the middle of no where and you will know. It just is not a pleasant experience for the most part. If you like them all the power to you but realize you are a minority.
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  #75  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
I am sorry about that line but it is true.

Most people working in those environments do not like them. When I started my career I was in business park outside of Malton. It was a terrible experience that I would not wish upon anyone. The CBD is preferred by most major execs and those that can afford central Toronto real estate. This is the reality, sorry if it does not correspond to your views of the world. Just try working in one of those single story slaughter houses in the middle of no where and you will know. It just is not a pleasant experience for the most part. If you like them all the power to you but realize you are a minority.
ROFLMAO, I didn't like it so most others must not like it........ What a myoptic view.

As asked with other posts, please site the study to back-up a such a broad wide-sweeping statement. Or, is it just your opinion? Sorry, your 'true' opinion.

Also, I'd like to state that I work at 366 Adelaide Street West (pretty close to downtown TO), so I'm certainly not sticking up for myself. It's just an inane statement, positioned as fact/truth with no back-up.
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  #76  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
Most people working in those environments do not like them. When I started my career I was in business park outside of Malton. It was a terrible experience that I would not wish upon anyone.
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Just try working in one of those single story slaughter houses in the middle of no where and you will know. It just is not a pleasant experience for the most part. If you like them all the power to you but realize you are a minority.
I guess those suburban areas were sucessfully able to create an urban environment that induced people to live in the area, and then businesses followed filling in the industrial malls.

Based on your previous agrument; http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...140319&page=21, I'd argue that people love to live and work in those areas.

Not scientific only interpreting one of your opinions.
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  #77  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:03 PM
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McMaster art and music department is getting outdated and small. The same for Mohawk. I know Mohawk showed interest in relocating the Art and Music department to the downtown core (was part of Phase II of Lister Block, might still be I dunno).

If the School Board decides to relocate to the Mountain perhaps the City should investigate the idea of convincing McMaster to take the School Board site with the city proposed idea. Would be a great spot as it's neighbouring the Art Gallery.
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  #78  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:48 PM
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If the School Board decides to relocate to the Mountain perhaps the City should investigate the idea of convincing McMaster to take the School Board site with the city proposed idea. Would be a great spot as it's neighbouring the Art Gallery.
While I agree any higher education for the core would be good I still think we need to further discuss looking outside of the Hamilton City Limits for candidates. Hamilton needs more diversification within the city, not more of the same.

Think of the fanfare and exposure of a brand new (to Hamilton) university or college establishing a presence in downtown. WOW, that would get coverage in local media, in Toronto media and media in the city where the institution is headquartered. All good things.

And I think it would bring new ideas, vibrancy and new ways of doing things to downtown. If anything I think that should be Hamilton's goal.
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  #79  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 4:59 PM
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I guess those suburban areas were sucessfully able to create an urban environment that induced people to live in the area, and then businesses followed filling in the industrial malls.

Based on your previous agrument; http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...140319&page=21, I'd argue that people love to live and work in those areas.

Not scientific only interpreting one of your opinions.
They induced cheap taxes and cheep buildings and jammed people in cubicles. Yes they created the right economic environment to attract businesses, but they have also created an easy target. These areas will have more difficulty competing when all the problems and cheep logic that built them start to tangle.

It seems you are distorting my argument entirely, which I do not appreciate.
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  #80  
Old Posted May 13, 2008, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
They induced cheap taxes and cheep buildings and jammed people in cubicles. Yes they created the right economic environment to attract businesses, but they have also created an easy target. These areas will have more difficulty competing when all the problems and cheep logic that built them start to tangle.

It seems you are distorting my argument entirely, which I do not appreciate.
Not distorting, interpreting. You don't have to appreciate it, but you will have to tolerate it just as I and everyone else has to tolerate it with our posts.

I've moved back to talking about Mac, because we are too way off topic with all this bickering. Post a link to the scientific study outlining how all the 905er's are overweight and hate their work environments and lets move on to talking about Mac.

Right now, I don't see Burlington providing Mac with $10M for a side of highway campus. They might provide something else, but not $10M.

Most likely they hate the thought of a highway side campus. It used to be (I don't know if it's still the case) that cities got 'Payment in Lieu of Taxes' on educational property which was less than regular property taxes. I'm guessing highway side property is assessed at a higher rate than non-highway side property and the city will lose tax money with the move in location. Just my guess.
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