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  #141  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 2:24 AM
Docere Docere is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Istanbul seems like it was pretty diverse judging by the Ottoman 1914 Census.

As general background, the Ottomans only asked about religion, not ethnicity, thus they didn't distinguish between Muslims who were Turks, Arabs, Kurds, etc. Anyway:

Muslim: 61.9%
Greek Orthodox: 22.7%
Armenian Orthodox: 8.1%
Jews: 5.8%
Armenian Catholics: 1.1%
Others: 0.5%
Good find. Obviously much more diverse than today!
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  #142  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 2:37 AM
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Vilnius was a city of Poles and Jews before WWII.

1931:

Poles 128,600 65.5%
Jews 54,600 27.8%
Russians 7,400 3.8%
Lithuanians 1,579 0.8%

1897:

Jews 61,847 40%
Poles 47,795 30.1%
Russians 30,967 20%
Lithuanians 3,131 2%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius#Demographics
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  #143  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 7:15 AM
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I guess another place/region that experienced an obvious diversity drop in the 20th century was Crimea.

1897

Russians 180,963 33.11%
Ukrainians 64,703 11.84%
Tatars 194,294 35.55%
Belarusians2,058 0.38%
Armenians 8,317 1.52%
Jews 24,168 4.42%
Others 72,089 13.19%

1939

Russians 558,481 49.6%
Ukrainians 154,123 13.7%
Tatars 218,879 19.4%
Belarusians6,726 0.6%
Armenians 12,923 1.1%
Jews 65,452 5.8%

According to Wikipedia,

Quote:
Other minorities are Black Sea Germans, Roma, Bulgarians, Poles, Azerbaijanis, Koreans, Greeks and Italians. The number of Crimea Germans was 45,000 in 1941.[15] In 1944, 70,000 Greeks and 14,000 Bulgarians from the Crimea were deported to Central Asia and Siberia,[3] along with 200,000 Crimean Tatars and other nationalities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._and_languages
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  #144  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 7:31 AM
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Sort of a tangent, but I see these forced relocations in European history sometimes described as "deportations" as in that Wikipedia quote above.
Quote:
... "deported to Central Asia and Siberia".
But it seems like "expulsion" or "exile" rather than just "deportation" are common ways of describing deportations by cruel authoritarian or totalitarian regimes with no due process or fair rule of law and can include removing people whose ancestors lived there for generations.

By contrast we use a word like deportation today for scenarios like removing illegal immigrants and their kids (what we consider civilized, free or democratic countries generally at the very least do not forcibly remove born-and-bred citizens, even if you consider deporting non-citizens who almost lived their whole lives in a country, say arriving as a baby, but were never born citizens).

So is the definition of deportation basically any forced relocation or transfer of individuals? Just the cruel and capricious ones in history are called "exile" or "expulsion"?

Or are exile and expulsion sending away born-and-bred citizens vs. deportations in general?
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  #145  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 10:00 AM
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There's no difference in literal meaning between 'deportation' and 'expulsion' (except that you must be deported to someplace, which is not necessarily a foreign country, as opposed to being simply expelled). However deportation is generally used w/r/t forced relocations of certain classes of citizens or certain ethnicities. Because these are classes of people as opposed to individuals, there is always 'due process' in the bureaucratic sense, even if the process is completely arbitrary. The Jews of Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe were stripped of their national citizenships (made stateless) prior to being 'deported' to concentration camps. Stalin's deportations to Siberia targeted classes of peasants (kulaks), particular nationalities, and alleged Nazi collaborators. Porfirio Díaz violently deported thousands of native Yaquí from Sonora to the south of Mexico. The most brutal deportations tend to be internal relocations. It's odd, but for some reason I never hear it said that native tribes in the US were 'deported' to reservations -- I suppose because ostensibly they relocated there voluntarily after signing a treaty?

Not to minimize or deny the brutality of Stalin's deportations, but it's worth mentioning (because no one ever does) that the industrial settlements he created in Siberia were the reason that the USSR (and therefore the Allies) won the war against fascism.

'Exile' usually refers to individuals rather than classes or groups of people.
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  #146  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 9:07 PM
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According to Wikipedia, 300,000 people of Czech origin lived in Austria proper (almost all Vienna) and about 150,000 ethnic Czechs left the country after WWI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechs_in_Austria

Obviously the descendants of Czech and Hungarian Viennese have long assimilated but the influence of the Austro Hungarian empire remains in terms of influence on cuisine, surnames etc.

Last edited by Docere; Apr 21, 2018 at 10:38 PM.
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