Phoenix Development News (3)

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

No, zoning in Desert Ridge is not near the density of downtown or central Phoenix; for one, there are crazy height restrictions and another is the required parking for suburban stretches of Phoenix. You might want to stick with your Denver posts because you don't seem to know too much about Phoenix.

When it comes to my knowledge of any zoning specifics, I don't have a clue and that would be in either Denver or Phoenix.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Another thing...as much as all of us urban enthusiasts want Phoenix to be something that it's not, the reality is that people (and most companies) don't come to Phoenix for the urban experience. People come to Phoenix to get away from "urban" cities, that is one of the draws of Phoenix. That's not to say that we can't have an active downtown, but to wish that anything and everything that is built from now on be built south of the I-10 and north Jackson is unrealistic.

Couldn't agree with you more. It is a push and pull factor for Phoenix. Many people/companies migrate to Phoenix to escape the costs and hardships of the big city. Many people also leave Phoenix to other places to experience what Phoenix is lacking - city life.

Phoenix will always be a sprawling city. Most cities sprawl including the big cities of the East Coast. This is the reality of today's city. It will sprawl to the edge of Federal lands. It took LA a century to fill-up the LA basin. It has sprawled as far as it possibly can. Phoenix will do the same, but like HX Guy said, DT can also grow simultaneously (and it is).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Another thing...as much as all of us urban enthusiasts want Phoenix to be something that it's not, the reality is that people (and most companies) don't come to Phoenix for the urban experience. People come to Phoenix to get away from "urban" cities, that is one of the draws of Phoenix. That's not to say that we can't have an active downtown, but to wish that anything and everything that is built from now on be built south of the I-10 and north Jackson is unrealistic.

I live out here b/c my son's Mom lives out here and he was attending Pinnacle HS which just happens to be on Mayo Blvd. but on the north side of the 101. Fair to say his Mom is not an "urbanist" and so far that's still not a crime.

Where I live I can without going out on a major street, even walk or bike to one bank for a credit card payment, Circle K for gas etc. go grocery shopping (Fry's), change my oil and car maintenance, buy auto parts and choose from a couple of fast food places. Within a couple of blocks I can get my plants, flowers, and household needs at Home Depot, shop at Walmart go to two other banks which I use, pay my utility bill, all the fast food choices though other food choices is limited to a Saba's and Rubio's.

Northeast Phoenix/Scottsdale/metro area is a "favored" area. What other part of town is served by three freeways? Many of my son's friends live along Pima Road. One, who's mom married her bf from NJ after he sold his business for $4 million and moved out and paid cash for a $1 million home off Pima Road and Carefree. Folks up there could give a rats patooti about transit or sprawl. It's their piece of heaven and they've earned it is how they feel... like it or not.

[Vicelord John]

Takefive we might know some of the same people. I dated a girl for two years who went to pinnacle and lives on Danbury and 54th. I've got another friend on that same street who went to pvhs.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Takefive we might know some of the same people. I dated a girl for two years who went to pinnacle and lives on Danbury and 54th. I've got another friend on that same street who went to pvhs.

Well for that matter we might know some of the same people because I went to PVHS (as a Freshman and Sophomore (98-00)) and Pinnacle (Jr/Sr 00-02).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

Phoenix isn't really drawing many companies to begin with.
Phoenix can't buy land quick enough to turn it into preserve/park land...

One thing we can all agree and see is that your heart is in the right place!!
Plus you've stimulated some thought and a few comments.

My son who's of all of 18 is lucky if he can keep his left elbow straight from his right. To (most of) his friends Downtown is where you go to see a baseball game or maybe to a Sun's game.
A couple of year's ago we started coming into the city to find interesting places to eat. We've probably hit 20 or so different restaurants mostly west of the 51 to 35th Ave. and south to Buckeye.

Couple of years ago my memory of downtown was from the late 1980's (or earlier). I like to just park somewhere and get out and walk around. Whenever we eat some place we always drive the area,
the neighborhoods. One of my kid's "best day's of my life" was spent with his gf and me at Encanto Park. Most of his friends wouldn't think of going there.
(I happen to have spent time there with a five-year-old girl, the love of my life (Daddy and daughter) back in the mid-1970's).

My son understands his friends, but he now thinks he's discovered a neat secret.... what downtown really is all about.

[exit2lef]

Interesting discussion about the Mayo complex. A week ago, I was sitting in the balcony of the Orpheum Theater and winced a little when I heard our new mayor, whose campaign I supported, talk enthusiastically about this development. My gut feeling about it is negative. It's more job sprawl, something that is much worse than residential sprawl. Decentralized living can at least be supported by a hub-and-spoke transit system, but decentralized employment results in suburb-to-suburb commutes that almost always require driving alone.

I'm also highly skeptical of the "better than no Mayo at all" or "better than having it in Scottsdale" arguments. Are we really so desperate that we'll sell our city's soul to land a prestigious employer in a suburban freeway location? While it might be possible to envision Desert Ridge as a "second Downtown" if we already had a robust city core, right now we need to concentrate on improving the existing core before trying to replicate it somewhere else. Whether it's Mayo, USAA, or any other employer, Phoenix needs to be willing to insist on central locations as a condition of any incentive or partnership.

That said, if were mayor, I'd probably have talked up the Mayo development as Stanton did during his inaugural address. As many have pointed out, it's something he inherited. He probably couldn't stop it even if he wanted to. Since it's already happening, it makes political sense to embrace it. Remember that Stanton's campaign was least successful in the northern reaches of Phoenix. By touting a major project there in his inaugural address, he can dispel notions that he's only the mayor of Central Phoenix and make it clear that he works for the entire city.

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Well for that matter we might know some of the same people because I went to PVHS (as a Freshman and Sophomore (98-00)) and Pinnacle (Jr/Sr 00-02).

Ick. Pinnacle. The school where everyone that got drink in high school al parents houses every night still hang out just now they hang out at sandbar instead.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Interesting discussion about the Mayo complex. A week ago, I was sitting in the balcony of the Orpheum Theater and winced a little when I heard our new mayor, whose campaign I supported, talk enthusiastically about this development. My gut feeling about it is negative. It's more job sprawl, something that is much worse than residential sprawl. Decentralized living can at least be supported by a hub-and-spoke transit system, but decentralized employment results in suburb-to-suburb commutes that almost always require driving alone.

I'm also highly skeptical of the "better than no Mayo at all" or "better than having it in Scottsdale" arguments. Are we really so desperate that we'll sell our city's soul to land a prestigious employer in a suburban freeway location? While it might be possible to envision Desert Ridge as a "second Downtown" if we already had a robust city core, right now we need to concentrate on improving the existing core before trying to replicate it somewhere else. Whether it's Mayo, USAA, or any other employer, Phoenix needs to be willing to insist on central locations as a condition of any incentive or partnership.

That said, if were mayor, I'd probably have talked up the Mayo development as Stanton did during his inaugural address. As many have pointed out, it's something he inherited. He probably couldn't stop it even if he wanted to. Since it's already happening, it makes political sense to embrace it. Remember that Stanton's campaign was least successful in the northern reaches of Phoenix. By touting a major project there in his inaugural address, he can dispel notions that he's only the mayor of Central Phoenix and make it clear that he works for the entire city.

Very true...and although east coast cities may sprawl, they don't in the way Phoenix has been built and many of the most sustainable have a transit system that the population can rely on when energy (gas, etc) becomes much more expensive. L.A. is a shit hole and we shouldn't use that city as an excuse to continue with our unsustainable ways. No one in NE Phoenix has really "afforded" their lifestyle: not until full-cost pricing is established for their choices.

[Vicelord John]

Have you been to LA? It's a great city.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Have you been to LA? It's a great city.

Yes, I develop temporary asthma from the ozone and smog every time I go. I also don't like sitting in traffic for two hours to get to any two places. That is not a future I envision for Phoenix. We already have to deal with dust pollution unique to our desert locale (the brown cloud); throw in L.A. style traffic and smog and this place will be uninhabitable...Seattle is a better city compared to L.A.; their downtown and its employment density are great. I have issues with Seattle's sprawl as well and lack of real mass transit aside from electric trolley buses and bus transit in general, but it is a better example of what a city should look like away from the suburbs.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Have you been to LA? It's a great city.

You mean this place?


Anschutz Entertainment Group

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

You mean this place?

LOL, "Farmer's Field" doesn't yet exist and may never. However, the new design for the stadium is outstanding. What isn't outstanding about the stadium and its location:

"Parking: 32,000 parking spaces within a 15-minute walk to Farmers Field are already in operation.

Traffic: To limit congestion, Farmers Field will utilize four freeways and over 20 interchanges (on/off ramps), and continue to use the successful traffic and parking model employed by STAPLES Center, L.A. LIVE, and the Los Angeles Convention Center." No emphasis whatsoever on transit planning...why, because no one in L.A. uses it.

And I mean this place:

http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources.../LA-smog-2.jpg

http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources.../LA-smog-1.jpg

And

http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...ot-likely.html

[TakeFive]

LOL... Three pics to one. Not fair.
What an Uglie place.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

LOL... Three pics to one. Not fair.
What an Uglie place.

The ugliness of Phoenix's sprawl and brown cloud aren't too far behind though there is much, much less of it. That is why it is important to limit far-flung developments like the Mayo bio-meds campus and more Desert Ridges and City Norths...

http://archplanbaltimore.blogspot.co...nd-sprawl.html

[TakeFive]

Nifty link w/ photos of Phoenix.

Not new, but still a fav.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGJt_YXIoJI" target="_blank">Video Link

[bwonger06]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

The ugliness of Phoenix's sprawl and brown cloud aren't too far behind though there is much, much less of it. That is why it is important to limit far-flung developments like the Mayo bio-meds campus and more Desert Ridges and City Norths...

http://archplanbaltimore.blogspot.co...nd-sprawl.html

How can anyone argue against the Mayo development? It delivers the two things Phoenix needs most... education and high quality jobs. You think San Francisco would be what it is if it didnt have Berkeley, Stanford, Silicon Valley, etc.? Seattle without Microsoft and Boeing? Boston without Harvard and MIT? Outside of NYC which is not a reproducible model, there are synergies between urban type companies and "sprawl type companies"

There are so many positives from this development and they far outweigh all the negatives. This is a building block for the future of Phoenix and downtown. You'll need law firms and other service companies to support this growth (most of which are concentrated in the downtown core area). On top of that, a big elephant like Mayo can only help in bringing and retaining top intellectual talent.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

However, the new design for the stadium is outstanding. What isn't outstanding about the stadium and its location:

No emphasis whatsoever on transit planning...why, because no one in L.A. uses it.

Obviously you'd be agreeable and love this, No? (Guess what league I'm a fan of)
http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/12/29/...arclays-center

[Vicelord John]

Sunsfan you know la is one of the densest cities in the country right? I'm not a fan of its suburbs either but I'm talking about the city itself.

[Leo the Dog]

Farmer's Field is running into obstacles right now, giving SD time to work on their East Village stadium plan. People are worried the Chargers will bolt to LA, but at least not for another year.

Phoenix is basically making a much small version of LA Live right now with the LED boards and CS office/hotel and USAC.

Vicelord John: By some calculations, LA is the densest urban area in America, exceeding NYC metro.

PhxSunsFan: Why hate on LA? I would think that Phoenix would be honored to be mentioned alongside a world-class city. I didn't expect false stereotypes of LA from a SSP member. As for traffic, yeah it's heavy and can be bad, but I consistently make it to Marina del Rey in under 2 hours from San Diego. LA smog is usually attributed to water vapor from the Pacific, Hollywood has done a great job portraying this as it ads to the effect and visual appeal of many films. Many LA air monitoring stations are consistently lower than Phoenix and Houston.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpo...in_Los_Angeles

Despite the congestion in the city, the mean travel time for commuters in Los Angeles is shorter than other major cities, including New York City, Philadelphia and Chicago. Los Angeles' mean travel time for work commutes in 2006 was 29.2 minutes, similar to those of San Francisco and Washington, DC

Yet LA is much larger than SF and DC metros.

Despite the assertion of the popular song that "nobody walks in L.A.", 3.4% of Los Angeles residents commute to work by walking

Ranked by daily ridership, the Los Angeles subway ranked as the ninth-busiest rapid transit system in the United States. Ranked by passengers per route mile, however, the system ranks sixth, transporting 8,846 passengers per route mile,[32] more than San Francisco's Bay Area Rapid Transit or the Chicago 'L'.

LA is actively working on the "subway to the sea" and the expo line LRT to Culver City is about to open with the 2nd phase meeting at the SM subway.

Including other municipal bus operators, Los Angeles County averages 1.7 million bus boardings per weekday

Nobody in LA uses mass transit...really?!