HARRISBURG-LANCASTER-LEBANON-YORK | South Central, PA | Regional Development Thread

[Young Gun]

I was reading wired.coms Autopia blog and ran across this statistic

Amtrak Is Feeling the Love.... The Chicago to Milwaukee Hiawatha line was up 22.4%, the Raleigh to Charlotte Piedmont route jumped 27.5%, and the Keystone line between New York and Harrisburg PA was up 19.1%. The biggest gainer in the entire Amtrak system? The scenic Boston to Portland, Maine Downeaster -- up nearly 33%.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/07/t...-are.html#more

Just some general good news...

[MidtownMike]

Originally Posted by Young Gun

Has anyone heard of this before? It has somehow flown under the radar. Found it while cruising commercial realty sites



Midtown Harrisburg's newest development in years includes 34,400 SF of office and retail space adjacent to the Harrisburg's expanding urban campus. This three-story development is the first phase of two mirrored buildings yielding a total of 68,000+ SF on Harrisburg's northern gateway, which may include the new Federal Court House. The widening of N. 7th street will be completed by the second quarter of 2008, making this the primary route in/out of Harrisburg from the north.

details in listing Here

Considering we're in the 3rd quarter of 2008, I don't see that happening...

[Young Gun]

Originally Posted by MidtownMike

Considering we're in the 3rd quarter of 2008, I don't see that happening...

Cynic.... haha

[chris.butcher]

I've been away for a while, traveling, beach, etc., but I'm back at it now.

Here is a link to some additional photos of the Pennsylvania Judicial Center http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.bu...JudicialCenter These were taken a few weeks ago, before the crane came down. I'll update these again in the very near future. As you can see, the building is looking really, really good. It just gets better and is one excellent addition to an already impressive Capitol Complex!

Also, I'll be posting additional photos of the Harrisburg U Tower and a few other developments around the City/Region.

[chris.butcher]

A thought which is not directed at any particular moderator of this thread or anything

The next time someone starts bitching about how Harrisburg holds itself back in this Forum, take a look at the Philly pages. Just check out the two full pages - or more - of discussion about whether to allow a sign by Unisys, then tell me how pathetic Harrisburg is for debating everything new.

The truth is that people in EVERY city fight over new development: Harrisburg, Philly, Chicago, New York or BFE. My point about this fighting isn't just that it happens, rather, that it is a mark of civic pride that people care enough to fight for their city.

Right EastSide?

Besides, who doesn't like a little mix-up once in a while?!

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by chris.butcher

A thought which is not directed at any particular moderator of this thread or anything

The next time someone starts bitching about how Harrisburg holds itself back in this Forum, take a look at the Philly pages. Just check out the two full pages - or more - of discussion about whether to allow a sign by Unisys, then tell me how pathetic Harrisburg is for debating everything new.

You're going to compare the passion for world-known buildings like Liberty Place and one of the best skylines in the country (subjective? sure, but one can never debate how recognizable the Philly skyline is) and a company like Unisys (also very well known) coming to your city's center and wanting to possibly "deface" one of said buildings, to HBG city council debating for years over if they should approve another boring, run of the mill 8-story building that won't stand out at all?!? That is HARDLY an apples to apples comparison. And lest we forget that we are on a skyscraper forum, and such proposals like Unisys' will always result in debate...

The problem with HBG vs. other cities is that everything usually does end up in a big debate for no good reason at all, which in turn ties fairly mediocre projects in the grand scheme of things up for years. I've seen more change here in Philly in 2+ years than I did in Harrisburg in 10, and that says an awful lot about a region...an awful lot.

The truth is that people in EVERY city fight over new development: Harrisburg, Philly, Chicago, New York or BFE. My point about this fighting isn't just that it happens, rather, that it is a mark of civic pride that people care enough to fight for their city.

Right EastSide?

Besides, who doesn't like a little mix-up once in a while?!

...but your point is appreciated: it is because people care about their city that they point out the faults and want them improved. If they didn't care they wouldn't be noticing and commenting at all! I have a lot of beefs with Harrisburg (A LOT) but I do care about its future and really do wish it the best!

[chris.butcher]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

You're going to compare the passion for world-known buildings like Liberty Place and one of the best skylines in the country (subjective? sure, but one can never debate how recognizable the Philly skyline is) and a company like Unisys (also very well known) coming to your city's center and wanting to possibly "deface" one of said buildings, to HBG city council debating for years over if they should approve another boring, run of the mill 8-story building that won't stand out at all?!? That is HARDLY an apples to apples comparison. And lest we forget that we are on a skyscraper forum, and such proposals like Unisys' will always result in debate...

Yes, I sure am...because to Harrisburgers, what is debated is every bit as important to them as to more widely known buildings are to other cities. Just saying.

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

...but your point is appreciated: it is because people care about their city that they point out the faults and want them improved. If they didn't care they wouldn't be noticing and commenting at all! I have a lot of beefs with Harrisburg (A LOT) but I do care about its future and really do wish it the best!

All of us appreciate your interest and good will EastSideHBG. Harrisburg needs all the goodwill and love that it can earn, and we're thankful for all of the caring that good people - like EastSide and the many others on this forum - show each and every week here. Thanks to you all for making this a great forum thread!!

[EastSideHBG]

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[chris.butcher]

I promised some updates to the PA Judicial Center at the Cap. Complex and here they are: http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.bu...dicialCenterII. As I said before, the building is really shaping up nicely. I especially like the tops of the columns on the columnade at the front - the stylized keystones are perfect for the building and are unique in their representation of Pennsylvania's symbol [see the third pick in my album].

The building is huge and really infills the last open space at the Capitol Complex. I am hoping to take a tour when they hold an open house [if indeed they do]. By the way, a friend and I got a good look at the external security features of the building and the Commonwealth has used its head in this regard. I have not posted pictures of the security features, so as not to compromise the safety of the building or those working therein.

Enjoy the pics, ladies and gentlemen.

[cb3cb3]

what is the latest with the federal court house? where are the latest potential locations? last time i saw a post on it it was to be the tallest building in harrisburg. i also remember it being all glass

[chris.butcher]

Originally Posted by cb3cb3

what is the latest with the federal court house? where are the latest potential locations? last time i saw a post on it it was to be the tallest building in harrisburg. i also remember it being all glass

cb3cb3, this is from The Patriot News on July 25, 2008, regarding the Courthouse Project in Harrisburg:

"My sense of it is because the Bush administration is leaving office in less than sixth months, some of the top people at the regional office of GSA in Philadelphia are leaving at the same time, if not sooner," Reed told The Patriot-News' editorial board this week.

"Our strategy is to wait out those who are opposing Sixth and Reily and then make the appropriate move to assure a subsequent GSA decision approving the Sixth and Reily site. We are kind of in that mode right now," Reed said.

A spokeswoman for Shelton said the director was unavailable for an interview Thursday. The spokeswoman, Gina Blyther Gilliam, added that it's too early to speculate when Shelton might depart in a change of administrations, noting that it's common for regional administrators, who serve at the pleasure of the president, to continue in the early months or years of a new administration.

Gilliam said lower-level GSA staff working on the Harrisburg project would remain with the agency."

Say what you will about Mayor Reed [and there is plenty to say], he has been consistently correct on his assessment of this project and the very arrogant manner in which the GSA has approached it. I think it would be a great "shot in the arm" for the City to have the courthouse underway right now, but I agree that 6th and Reily is a great site for it.

Btw, in case some of you out-of-towners are wondering, follow the link for pictures of the 6th and Reily Streets proposed site for the courthouse http://picasaweb.google.com/chris.bu...ndReilyStreets

[Young Gun]

I like both the 6th and Reily site and the site in the Southern Gateway. 6th and Reily site would be a good stabilizing force in that section of the city, Already there is that proposed condo building in that area.

On the other hand putting it in the Southern Gateway would help to beautify the entry to downtown. Either way I call it a win if it gets put at those 2 sites.

I somehow feel that we wouldn't have had this long of a fiasco if there was a different administration in Washington. Hopefully Reed is right, but I guess that means another year until a decision is made. We might see it built by 2011. As slow as the goverment moves the whole area around the new courthouses could be filled with development by the time that the courthouse get finished.

[EastSideHBG]

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Nice pics, Chris! I have friends that own a townhouse in the group you can see in your second pic, and they rent it out. I haven't talked to them in a few years so they may have sold it, though.

I think 6th and Reily is the best bet. There is a lot of room, it would help push DT outward, that whole immediate area is garbage and like you guys said, it would be a nice shot in the arm for the area. Also, I always thought it was cool how DT was divided into two distinct districts, and I like the idea of having this fed bldg. in the "gov't side of town".

[Young Gun]

Eastside,

Your opinion of sorts based on your comments above. If downtown continues to push itself out (around established historical districts) Do you eventually see the City of Harrisburg evolving into a high density (downtown) area with most of the residential areas falling outside the current city limits??

To me it seems that if the current development trends, (with hopeful acceleration of development over time as the city grows) The city is doomed to become mainly a CBD with residential around the edges. Already the downtown is pushed against the two sides of the city (west and south) and is spreading Northward along the river as the land is cheaper there and easy access to the interstate. It seems logical to me that once the expansion of 7th Street is completed we'll see more development there too as it will be easy (and quick) to get in and out of the city from there. That would leave Midtown, and uptown surrounded.

[chris.butcher]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Nice pics, Chris! I have friends that own a townhouse in the group you can see in your second pic, and they rent it out. I haven't talked to them in a few years so they may have sold it, though.

I think 6th and Reily is the best bet. There is a lot of room, it would help push DT outward, that whole immediate area is garbage and like you guys said, it would be a nice shot in the arm for the area. Also, I always thought it was cool how DT was divided into two distinct districts, and I like the idea of having this fed bldg. in the "gov't side of town".

Thanks, EastSideHBG, glad you liked the pics. I'm working on more in the very near future, as there has been significant advancement on the Harrisburg U Tower, downtown.

Yes, the ability to extend the downtown [DT] to the north around 7th and 6th Streets, seems to be in the works. Frankly, there are still HUGE tracks of available land in that area, if you clear off some isolated residences and abandoned/run-down structures. Speaking specifically about the courthouse, the federal judges are the ones really pushing the courthouse to be DT, but I think they're going to lose this fight. They have the great misfortune of having US Rep. Tim Holden on the House Committee which oversees GSA's budget. Ah well, let them have their tantrum.

YoungGun made a point, in the previous post, about the core of Harrisburg becoming a rather large Central Business District [CBD], with housing limited to the fringes of the City. I've thought that myself, but there is always another option: more condos and apartments in the CBD!! I still think we're a good 10 or 15 years from that kind of development, but I do believe it will happen. The thing preventing that right now, is, imho, the availability of land in the City [hence the option to build dwellings where it is less expensive] and the obstinate refusal of many suburbanites to actually want to live in the CBD. One will change fairly quickly [the land availability], the other, not nearly so, but it will, following the lack of land "close in" on which to build more suburbia.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Young Gun

Eastside,

Your opinion of sorts based on your comments above. If downtown continues to push itself out (around established historical districts) Do you eventually see the City of Harrisburg evolving into a high density (downtown) area with most of the residential areas falling outside the current city limits??

To me it seems that if the current development trends, (with hopeful acceleration of development over time as the city grows) The city is doomed to become mainly a CBD with residential around the edges. Already the downtown is pushed against the two sides of the city (west and south) and is spreading Northward along the river as the land is cheaper there and easy access to the interstate. It seems logical to me that once the expansion of 7th Street is completed we'll see more development there too as it will be easy (and quick) to get in and out of the city from there. That would leave Midtown, and uptown surrounded.

Well it can live in harmony if done right, just look at Philadelphia and DC. Yes they are much, MUCH larger but on a smaller scale HBG is identical. Again the trick is if done right, though.

But yeah, unless like Chris said and many of us have been saying for years HBG gets some condos/new apartments in its core, I do think the CBD will be really just about that and most of the residential will be in Midtown, across Cameron and up Market, etc. With the city limits being so small it almost seems like this is the best route to go anyway (think of Australia's big cities).

[chris.butcher]

Forgive me if this is a duplicate post, but I went back through this thread several pages and did not see any mention of this project. [Also, apologies for the size of this pic, but that is the size as posted on the Patriot News' website] This is really a nice addition to the hospital and will, in my opinion, actually help the traffic at the intersection of Chestnut and Front Streets. [It appears to me that entering the hospital grounds from along Front Street will not be an option any longer, hence the improvement].



I like the addition, as it is a good way to tie together the more modern, black glass tower with the earlier brick tower, using a neutral white curtain and brick at the southern end. This addition should be really interesting at night, as a large portion of it will be glass. This expansion is worth $28 million and will bring the emergency room capacity to over 60,000 patients per year, as per the Patriot News. The article http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...r_er.html#more also indicates that the number of examination rooms will be increased from 28 currently, to 57. This is a great project, but a pitiful comment on our overall health care system. This project should be completed by 2010.

I'm going to try to get the camera out tomorrow and get a few pics, because the foundation excavations are already started.

[EastSideHBG]

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Seems to me like they could've done this work when they were adding the laboratory or soon after, as they reconfigured the ER and even had to have a temporary entrance elsewhere for a while.

[chris.butcher]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

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Seems to me like they could've done this work when they were adding the laboratory or soon after, as they reconfigured the ER and even had to have a temporary entrance elsewhere for a while.

I wondered that very thing, EastSide! I cannot understand the "planning" process that PinnacleHealth Systems uses, but it seems rather haphazard, as you pointed out. There is supposedto be a master plan for the Harrisburg Hospital campus, but I don't know if its ever been published or made public. The Mayor has referred to the Hospital being a major player in the coming Southern Gateway Project, but again, no firm plans released covering that role.

I will just enjoy the appearance of the new addition, though. It should be a very nice addition to the downtown and to the more modern portion of Front Street, south of State Street.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by chris.butcher

I wondered that very thing, EastSide! I cannot understand the "planning" process that PinnacleHealth Systems uses, but it seems rather haphazard, as you pointed out.

I know MANY people who work/have worked for the company and it does appear that there is no planning at all. Like many companies in America (especially in health care) too much money and not enough brains I guess LOL

Yes, It does indeed look like it will be a nice, modern addition.