Atlanta Project Thread IV

[Chris Creech]

Not everyone does the tailgating thing, seems a waste of space for that, why not just do a deck for most everybody and maybe a small outside parking area with premium/more expensive parking for tailgating, wider spots, add some add some landscaped strips with picnic tables. between each row. Trash receptacles.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech

Not everyone does the tailgating thing, seems a waste of space for that, why not just do a deck for most everybody and maybe a small outside parking area with premium/more expensive parking for tailgating, wider spots, add some add some landscaped strips with picnic tables. between each row. Trash receptacles.

Tailgating is sometimes better than the actual game!!!

[teejay]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I am so tired of hearing about that playoff game that wasn't a sellout back in 199?. Some people need to let it go and move on - it doesn't define Atlanta's fan base and has no relevance today.

Sadly, it does. Game 4 against SF last October was pretty empty. Admittedly, game 3 was packed and as loud as any SEC stadium, and after the letdown of game 3 I think everyone expected game 4 to be far from a sellout.

[Newnan_Eric]

I find it interesting that all of the significant projects that have any life in them right now are in-town. And of them, most are centered around downtown specifically:

OTP:
Gwinnett Hotel

ITP - Buckhead:
Re-start of Streets of Buckhead

ITP: Midtown:
Re-branding Atlantic Station
Beltline and new spoke streetcar lines
Dual-branded hotel @ 10th Street

ITP: Downtown
College Football Hall of Fame
Civil/Human Rights Center
Downtown Streetcar
Beltline and new spoke streetcar lines
Gulch re-development

If all of this starts getting built, we could see some significant changes to the feel of the in-town areas of Atlanta. It could be exciting to see in about 5 years.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Newnan_Eric

I find it interesting that all of the significant projects that have any life in them right now are in-town. And of them, most are centered around downtown specifically:

OTP:
Gwinnett Hotel

ITP - Buckhead:
Re-start of Streets of Buckhead

ITP: Midtown:
Re-branding Atlantic Station
Beltline and new spoke streetcar lines
Dual-branded hotel @ 10th Street

ITP: Downtown
College Football Hall of Fame
Civil/Human Rights Center
Downtown Streetcar
Beltline and new spoke streetcar lines
Gulch re-development

If all of this starts getting built, we could see some significant changes to the feel of the in-town areas of Atlanta. It could be exciting to see in about 5 years.

I love the stuff I see going on intown right now and don't want this statement to take away from that, but I respectfully disagree.

the OTP projects are just different in type and scope, but have a major impact on our growth. For example the widening of Mcginnis Ferry will help further spur growth in a rapidly growing suburban office corridor. This is particularly notable for the I-85 corridor near Sugarloaf and Mcginnis Ferry and Medlock Bridge Rd, which in many respects is like a mini-edge city. I know some people don't like this, but this is an important part if our ultimate goal is to build a city where people can live closer to whee they work.

The intersection with Buford Highway and Pleasant Hill was reworked. and much of Pleasant Hill west of the mall is getting upgrades.

Another sizable project people are overlooking is the extension sugar loaf parkway is nearing 316. Most of the new parts are semi-freeway parkways. This is no small thing for Gwinnett, even it people hate the idea of building roads Gwinnett is still an expanding county and we can't keep letting people funnel onto the same original rural roads.

US78 recently got a huge facelift that greatly improved capacity, safety, and aesthetic quality of the corridor. Gwinnett is also dotted with several small town center projects. They are all smaller in scope, but given the build of the area we need more areas like this that are smaller, rather than larger and concentrated in one place.

The I-85 and 316 got reworked and I-85 is getting the HOT lane conversions. They are also slowly building better collector distributor lanes in the whole corridor. I know it isn't as sexy as beltline, but this greatly improves capacity and helps local transportation in the area.

Now there are several projects that are several years away, but they are in the early works. The CID at Gwinnett Place and Gwinnett Villlage is slowly helping to start change the area. Crime on retail businesses is down, the area aesthetic appeal is slowly getting better. Gwinnett Place is in the early stages of a retail rebound after nearly a decade of many places sitting empty.

They have planned the reworking of the interchange with Pleasant Hill Rd, Jimmy Carter, and 124 @ 78. They are also in the early stages of planning of an extension of Ronald Reagan Parkway to both Gwinnett Place Mall and I-85. The CIDs are also exploring and conducting the preliminary studies for LRT in the I-85 corridor.

A few small things going unnoticed as well... (things Gwinnett is doing better than the intown parts in a few respects) is changing the development of curb cuts along arterial roads. This goes a long way at making what we already have work better. All counties to some degree are working on this. Gwinnett has done a better job of identifying key routes to protect.

We are also continuing to rapidly expand the park, school and sewer system. I know these projects aren't as exciting, but they are still important and have a big impact on many peoples lives in the area.

Perhaps much of this isn't as exciting, but it is certainly making our community better

[Newnan_Eric]

Roadwork in OTP areas, ,meh. This kind of stuff is perpetual. Things like the light rail projects in town and the Gulch re-development have the potential to be transformative projects. The Gulch project will re-shape an enormous section of downtown and could be a catalyst for a lot of development in the future.

And, if gas prices remain high and go higher, transit oriented projects will continue to be popular.

I can name plenty of road widening and intersection improvement projects in my part of town too. Sure they'll make life better for those residents in the near future, but they aren't going to significantly alter development momentum that was already there.

Sorry, I think you missed my original point.

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I love the stuff I see going on intown right now and don't want this statement to take away from that, but I respectfully disagree.

the OTP projects are just different in type and scope, but have a major impact on our growth. For example the widening of Mcginnis Ferry will help further spur growth in a rapidly growing suburban office corridor. This is particularly notable for the I-85 corridor near Sugarloaf and Mcginnis Ferry and Medlock Bridge Rd, which in many respects is like a mini-edge city. I know some people don't like this, but this is an important part if our ultimate goal is to build a city where people can live closer to whee they work.

The intersection with Buford Highway and Pleasant Hill was reworked. and much of Pleasant Hill west of the mall is getting upgrades.

Another sizable project people are overlooking is the extension sugar loaf parkway is nearing 316. Most of the new parts are semi-freeway parkways. This is no small thing for Gwinnett, even it people hate the idea of building roads Gwinnett is still an expanding county and we can't keep letting people funnel onto the same original rural roads.

US78 recently got a huge facelift that greatly improved capacity, safety, and aesthetic quality of the corridor. Gwinnett is also dotted with several small town center projects. They are all smaller in scope, but given the build of the area we need more areas like this that are smaller, rather than larger and concentrated in one place.

The I-85 and 316 got reworked and I-85 is getting the HOT lane conversions. They are also slowly building better collector distributor lanes in the whole corridor. I know it isn't as sexy as beltline, but this greatly improves capacity and helps local transportation in the area.

Now there are several projects that are several years away, but they are in the early works. The CID at Gwinnett Place and Gwinnett Villlage is slowly helping to start change the area. Crime on retail businesses is down, the area aesthetic appeal is slowly getting better. Gwinnett Place is in the early stages of a retail rebound after nearly a decade of many places sitting empty.

They have planned the reworking of the interchange with Pleasant Hill Rd, Jimmy Carter, and 124 @ 78. They are also in the early stages of planning of an extension of Ronald Reagan Parkway to both Gwinnett Place Mall and I-85. The CIDs are also exploring and conducting the preliminary studies for LRT in the I-85 corridor.

A few small things going unnoticed as well... (things Gwinnett is doing better than the intown parts in a few respects) is changing the development of curb cuts along arterial roads. This goes a long way at making what we already have work better. All counties to some degree are working on this. Gwinnett has done a better job of identifying key routes to protect.

We are also continuing to rapidly expand the park, school and sewer system. I know these projects aren't as exciting, but they are still important and have a big impact on many peoples lives in the area.

Perhaps much of this isn't as exciting, but it is certainly making our community better

[cybele]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Perhaps much of this isn't as exciting, but it is certainly making our community better

Well, the man in the paper says the gulch thing will take decades which means I won't get to see it, but until they get it built people still has to have a way to get around. Therefore the roads and so forth are not such a bad thing.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Newnan_Eric

Roadwork in OTP areas, ,meh. This kind of stuff is perpetual. Things like the light rail projects in town and the Gulch re-development have the potential to be transformative projects. The Gulch project will re-shape an enormous section of downtown and could be a catalyst for a lot of development in the future.

And, if gas prices remain high and go higher, transit oriented projects will continue to be popular.

I can name plenty of road widening and intersection improvement projects in my part of town too. Sure they'll make life better for those residents in the near future, but they aren't going to significantly alter development momentum that was already there.

Sorry, I think you missed my original point.

A few decades ago the only jobs Gwinnett had were locally related retail jobs and a few industrial districts. Now we have a job base of over 300,000, which is starting to be a more proper for a county its size.

It might seem like nothing to you, just perpetual, or unexciting... but these are important corridors not just for fixing existing conditions, but starting renewal along the I-85 corridor on the southern end of the county.

If we want improve our older areas we have to improve the transportation bottlenecks and access to those areas. In many ways the Beltline is helping do this for Atlanta. Whether it is transit or roads... it is all about improving access.

I'd also like to spot out Gwinnett County has added a huge amount of park land. Perhaps you don't like people living in suburban houses and driving to a park, but that doesn't make these projects just "meh" and meaningless. This is improving a way of live for over 800,000 people and giving them better access to jobs without battling I-85.

I think the stuff going on intown is great, but at the end of the day it isn't going to support all of the region's 5 million people. It will support the residential growth for a few hundred thousand. So in the meantime I am going to be looking at all of the other things going on in the region as well... looking at parks, schools, transportation access, and revitalization in older suburban areas. Those areas don't have a huge gulch to fix. What they do have are cluttered arterial roads that aren't safe and not aesthetically pleasing (think Buford Highway). Like Atlanta... they have below average amounts of park land.

And talking about future gas prices, traffic, etc... A few LRT projects aren't going to fix this for a region of 5 million people. It will fix it for a few hundred thousand people at the end of the day (which by all means IS apart of the solution). But the good thing is there are other things we can do with the existing resources we have... if you are willing to look at what it is and see it. Part of the issue in influencing zoning and where businesses and jobs are built. Making it so people can live close to where they work, even when a car is required

The other thing I was kind of trying to convey a little bit... that I don't think you quite understand. Urban planners and civil engineers have moved a long way in the last few decades rethinking how we use roads and how we use access to those roads. There are alot of trans-formative issues regarding zoning that have a direct positive impacts. It isn't just going on in Gwinnett. It is happening everywhere... Gwinnett just jumped on the bandwagon earlier on changing building codes along roads.

A side effect from Atlanta, which many people publicly heard about was the zoning issue with Varsity Jr. on Lindbergh drive. The older growth allowed for huge curb cuts along roads making it a very unsafe environment for drivers and pedestrians. Control the curb cuts and demand inter-parcel access you can make the area safer and make the corridor look nicer.

I think what I'm trying to say... the only reason why initially said not much is going on in OTP is you are picking and choosing what you are willing to look at.

There are alot of things going on OTP... in fact even more residents, businesses, park land, and office space are being constructed than in Atlanta.

Don't get me wrong I love the stuff going on in Atlanta right and want it all to happen, but sometimes I think people get on these forums and go into tunnel-vision and forget there are a TON of people that live (and for that matter work) OTP and all of the issues I mentioned have a direct impact on their lives.

You can't drive the US78 corridor from Stone Mountain to Snelleville and not notice a huge change in safety, ease of driving, and aesthetic appeal to the area. Even Memorial Drive through Dekalb are getting a nice overhaul and face lift. Town centers are becoming more important. Nocross, Duluth, and Suwannee all have great town center projects going on. Lawrenceville and Lilburn are in the earlier stages.

[TarHeelJ]

I agree that discussing highway construction/maintenance isn't very exciting...it doesn't matter wether it's ITP vs OTP. It seems more appropriate for the AsphaltPage Forum. But anyway...

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I agree that discussing highway construction/maintenance isn't very exciting...it doesn't matter wether it's ITP vs OTP. It seems more appropriate for the AsphaltPage Forum. But anyway...

But that is your preference and is hardly any excuse to say nothing is going on OTP

[NativeAtlantan]

Just got this email:

The Integral Group, Cousins, Forest City selected to build Atlanta's transportation hub

"Atlanta needs to have a hub, a place that will organize all of the various means of transportation – bus, rail and auto, with flexibility as we bring in commuter rail, high-speed rail, a streetcar," says Egbert Perry, chairman and CEO of The Integral Group. "That is a job we are anxious to do."

For Perry, the week of the "Ides of March" has been auspicious. The Georgia Department of Transportation's announcement that a consortium that includes The Integral Group was selected to build one of Atlanta's most-needed infrastructure projects, a "multi-modal passenger terminal" (MMPT) – the hub that Perry says is so critical to the city.

The other important news during the week was that Perry assumed the chairmanship of Central Atlanta Progress, a 70-year-old, 200-member group whose current mission is to build a vibrant downtown in the heart of the Metro Atlanta region.

The MMPT will satisfy an ambition Atlanta has had for more than two decades – to put a transformative energizing presence into what residents call "the Gulch," a vast expanse of asphalt and train tracks adjacent to Philips Arena. The MMPT will connect MARTA's rail and bus lines, regional bus systems and existing rail networks. It will also be a catalyst and hub for future transportation functions, including commuter rail, local light rail, regional high-speed rail and streetcars.

And, transportation is only part of MMPT's mission. It will be one of the largest "transit-oriented developments" in the nation, combining residential, office, retail and recreational components. Just planning the huge and complicated project will take two years, Perry estimates. The ultimate investment in all components will be more than $1 billion.

Leading the MMPT consortium along with The Integral Group will be Cousins Properties, one of Atlanta's premier development firms and the company that developed what is now called CNN Center and Philips Arena, which border the Gulch; and the Cleveland, Ohio, based development giant, Forest City Enterprises.

The Integral Group has honed its reputation as an agent of transformation in urban centers, especially Atlanta. As Perry puts it, the company's mission is "to create value in cities and (re)build the fabric of communities."

More on the MMPT can be found on the Georgia DOT website.

[PedestriAnne]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well, the man in the paper says the gulch thing will take decades which means I won't get to see it, but until they get it built people still has to have a way to get around. Therefore the roads and so forth are not such a bad thing.

I'm in my 30s and it might take enough decades that I won't get to see it either. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but so much money has to be lined up and so many things have to fall into place for this thing to happen...I just don't know.

[smArTaLlone]

The Biz Chronicle reports that Novare is once again looking to get back into the development business. Several factors including demographics and the dearth of new multifamily development in recent years has them and several others scouting intown areas for apartment projects as well as sources of financing. The article surmises that the Novare is looking at high rise apartments but Novare had no comment.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

The Biz Chronicle reports that Novare is once again looking to get back into the development business. Several factors including demographics and the dearth of new multifamily development in recent years has them and several others scouting intown areas for apartment projects as well as sources of financing. The article surmises that the Novare is looking at high rise apartments but Novare had no comment.

This confirms what I heard last week. My bet would be that they're are going to convert unbuilt condo tower sites at Twelve Centennial and Viewpoint into apartment buildings.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by Terminus

This confirms what I heard last week. My bet would be that they're are going to convert unbuilt condo tower sites at Twelve Centennial and Viewpoint into apartment buildings.

Last year I heard some real estate expert that predicted that we could see high rise apartments break ground as early as this year. It sounded outrageously optimistic at the time but I guess he really is an expert.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

Last year I heard some real estate expert that predicted that we could see high rise apartments break ground as early as this year. It sounded outrageously optimistic at the time but I guess he really is an expert.

The tens of thousands of metro Atlantans foreclosing on their single family residences have to live somewhere, don't they?

There's a demand for apartments now, while some neighborhoods with single family residences have one empty house for every two or three occupied.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

But that is your preference and is hardly any excuse to say nothing is going on OTP

Again, it's not about OTP vs. ITP...it's road construction vs. actual development.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Again, it's not about OTP vs. ITP...it's road construction vs. actual development.

But that is just the point... there is lots of development there and much of it is driven by the increase of access provided by critical road projects in a growing area. The problem is most of it doesn't get alot of attention unless it is like the the 20+ story hotel near the Mall of Georgia that would be highly visible.

Atlanta's northside isn't just a quiet little suburb like many on here seem to want to believe. Albeit, it is very spread out and autocentric in comparison. Some people don't like that and I understand, but given the route they have gone with that places like Gwinnett Co have done very well. In fact outside the Atlanta city proper it has a much better local arterial road network that makes travel easier and efficient... at least within itself. Mix that with the congestion getting intown and the affluence of some of the residence there has been a significant increase in the number of jobs in the are.

[Pessimistic Observer]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

But that is just the point... there is lots of development there and much of it is driven by the increase of access provided by critical road projects in a growing area. The problem is most of it doesn't get alot of attention unless it is like the the 20+ story hotel near the Mall of Georgia that would be highly visible.

Atlanta's northside isn't just a quiet little suburb like many on here seem to want to believe. Albeit, it is very spread out and autocentric in comparison. Some people don't like that and I understand, but given the route they have gone with that places like Gwinnett Co have done very well. In fact outside the Atlanta city proper it has a much better local arterial road network that makes travel easier and efficient... at least within itself. Mix that with the congestion getting intown and the affluence of some of the residence there has been a significant increase in the number of jobs in the are.

lets take a poll on what should be covered in this thread road construction; public transit; or standard devolopment construction
or all of the above

i vote for standard devolopment construction

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by Terminus

I have it from reliable sources that Novare is planning up to three 20+ story apartment buildings at three different sites in Downtown and Midtown, but specific sites were not mentioned.

My prediction is that they will reposition sites originally planned for condos (i.e. Phase II of Viewpoint and Phase II of Twelve Centennial) as apartment buildings.

I believe this is just a drawing that the developer is using to market the site but something like this on the corner of 4th street would be really welcome infill.