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  #11321  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 1:06 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Guys have been all over that lot the past few weeks marking sewer and water tie ins.
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  #11322  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 1:32 AM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Where is it located on Roosevelt? I can't seem to visualize it.
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  #11323  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 2:14 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Sorry guys... Ill eventually stop posting experiences, as its getting annoying and redundant.... unfortunately happening WAY to often.

But literally just saw homeless aggressively catcalling (whom Im guessing are) ASU freshman inside CVS. Proceeded to walk out door onto Central and immediately witness another guy pissing into a water bottle on the sidewalk
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  #11324  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 2:59 AM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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I don’t know if the worsening of the homeless problem is exclusive to downtown. Just recently I’ve seen homeless people roaming the streets in my Northeast Mesa neighborhood. I’ve never seen them in my area before. It’s almost like someone bussed a bunch of hobos into the Phoenix area.
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  #11325  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 3:11 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Sorry guys... Ill eventually stop posting experiences, as its getting annoying and redundant.... unfortunately happening WAY to often.

But literally just saw homeless aggressively catcalling (whom Im guessing are) ASU freshman inside CVS. Proceeded to walk out door onto Central and immediately witness another guy pissing into a water bottle on the sidewalk
I don't associate catcalling with the homeless. I'm more used to seeing the homeless, who are often mentally ill, mumbling to themselves or shouting at imagined adversaries. Catcalling is an act of harassment and disrespect but not usually a symptom of mental illness. In any case, while I'm seeing the homeless in some new places (e.g. Civic Space Park and Shadow Play), I'm not encountering the massive upsurge in behavioral problems being reported in this forum, despite being Downtown every day.

Last edited by exit2lef; Nov 21, 2017 at 3:23 AM.
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  #11326  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 3:58 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Anyone got access:

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...h-phoenix.html

Rising rents should mean new office construction.
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  #11327  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:14 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Double-digit tech-sector employment growth in the Phoenix metro area has ranked the city in the top third of markets in the U.S. for rising office rents over the past two years, according to a new report.

CBRE’s annual Tech-30 report measures the tech industry’s impact on office rents in the 30 leading tech markets in the U.S. and Canada.

Phoenix saw 13.4 percent growth, while Tempe had the highest tech rent growth of any submarket in the country, with just under 30 percent growth over the same period, according to the report.

“Overall, Metro Phoenix’s office market is performing well, with tech being a major driver,” said Bryan Taute, executive vice president with CBRE’s Phoenix office. “Downtown Phoenix and Scottsdale continue to garner attention from tech companies, but Tempe tops the charts in terms of tech rent growth. All of these areas have seen significant demand from tech companies looking to draw from a high concentration of millennials, whom they hope will fulfill their current and future labor needs. These areas also benefit from being centrally located, amenity rich, walkable and nearby to Sky Harbor International Airport.”


Thirteen of the Tech-30 markets posted rent growth of 10 percent or more between the second quarter of 2015 and the second quarter of 2017.

Phoenix’s high-tech employment grew 25.4 percent over 2015 and 2016, according to the report.

Average office rents rose 13.4 percent to $25.01 a square foot during this time in Phoenix, while Tempe’s average office asking rent is $28.35.

“Of the top 10 markets for tech rent growth, Metro Phoenix is one of the most affordable from an office rent standpoint,” said Kevin Calihan, executive vice president with CBRE’s Phoenix office. “With prime office rents in Austin and San Francisco reaching north of $60 per square foot and $100 per square foot, respectively, and only a handful of buildings in metro Phoenix reaching $40 per square foot, metro Phoenix is still far more affordable than many of the other markets it competes with.”


The report also shows that tech companies willing to pay a premium for office space in the hot tech markets has a trickling effect into neighboring submarkets as available space dwindles. Adjacent submarkets, such as the Phoenix metro area, benefit from this, which creates an opportunity for commercial real estate investors.

“Office rents have increased in every primary tech submarket over the past two years, illustrating stiff competition among tenants to locate in talent-rich areas such as Tempe, east Cambridge, Minneapolis’s North Loop and south Orange County, all of which have very low office vacancy,” said Colin Yasukochi, director of research and analysis for CBRE and the report’s author. “If tech companies that are used to paying a premium for space in the top tech submarkets are forced to move to adjacent submarkets in order to expand, we could start to see significant rent growth in those more traditional markets as well.”

Other stats from the report:

Tenants in Phoenix’s top tech submarket, Tempe, pay a premium of 13.4 percent compared to the broader market.
Tempe was the top submarket for net absorption growth from Q2 2015 to Q2 2017, at 33.2 percent. This was followed by Nashville (13.5 percent), Seattle’s Lake Union (27.5 percent) and Salt Lake City’s South Valley (19.3 percent).
For the sixth consecutive year, San Francisco was the top Tech-30 market for high-tech job growth. Its high-tech job base grew by 39.4 percent over the past two years, while its average asking rent increased by only 7.1 percent.
Charlotte (31.6 percent), Pittsburgh (31.4 percent), Indianapolis (27.8 percent) and Phoenix (25.4 percent), all low-cost markets, had the next highest job growth rates and rent increases of 16.9 percent, 3.5 percent, 6.5 percent and 13.4 percent, respectively.
Double-digit office rent growth was achieved in 13 markets over the past two years, led by Orange County (23.3 percent), Nashville (21.2 percent), Atlanta (17.6 percent) Charlotte (16.9 percent) and Silicon Valley (16.8 percent).
Los Angeles-based CBRE Group Inc. (NYSE: CBG) is among the world’s largest commercial real estate services and investment firms.
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  #11328  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 5:22 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Just took part in a long conversation about plans to close Cave Creek and Encanto golf courses in the next couple of years. Not sure if this might be an opportunity for redevelopment of either (encanto could be an interesting opportunity for someone) or if it will be like Maryvale and a private entity will continue to operate it as a public course.

This is a water issue more than anything, the long term forecast for golf courses is grim.
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  #11329  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 9:21 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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I've never put two and two together that the golf courses were always deep green and the local parks were always bone dry when I lived there. It suggests a massive misallocation of public funds and goodwill--the peasants get the dirt, the gentry get the grass.

That being said, losing Encanto would be the end of an era, and turning it into a vacant lot would be a nightmare.

Then you get stuck with what to do with it that could additionally appease people whose property values suddenly plummeted. I hope this is planned well.
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  #11330  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 9:50 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Since it's just the golf course we're talking about, I can't imagine currently that huge parcel could be developed. The swankier southern end surrounding the park is the better half. Trying to figure out what kind of development would be appropriate at 15th Ave. & Thomas.
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  #11331  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 9:50 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
I've never put two and two together that the golf courses were always deep green and the local parks were always bone dry when I lived there. It suggests a massive misallocation of public funds and goodwill--the peasants get the dirt, the gentry get the grass.

That being said, losing Encanto would be the end of an era, and turning it into a vacant lot would be a nightmare.

Then you get stuck with what to do with it that could additionally appease people whose property values suddenly plummeted. I hope this is planned well.
Golfing is a dying activity generally. Its too expensive for what it is and has lots of courses private and public have close dup because they cant maintain their properties and TBH the land is more valuable as redevelopment.

Its actually quite a crazy situations because due to the zoning, and agreements that had these courses built in the first place cities can force a company to keep it a golf course so courses have turned to letting the plants die so the community demands something be done.

basically like most of our problems its because of crazy laws and promises made decades ago with no regard for weather this makes sense long term coming to back to bite ...well the grandkids of those who made the promises in the first place.
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  #11332  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 10:33 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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When Maryvale Golf Course was going to close the residents near it were just saying things like "oh, too bad that is happening. Nothing I can do about it".

That certainly will not be the case with residents in Encanto and Palmcroft. Once this thing goes public (it's still on the discussion table privately so nothing to take public) you're going to hear some salty voices. Actually, you'll probably first hear about this from a report of angry residents opposing golf course closure for redevelopment or something similar.
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  #11333  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 11:34 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
When Maryvale Golf Course was going to close the residents near it were just saying things like "oh, too bad that is happening. Nothing I can do about it".

That certainly will not be the case with residents in Encanto and Palmcroft. Once this thing goes public (it's still on the discussion table privately so nothing to take public) you're going to hear some salty voices. Actually, you'll probably first hear about this from a report of angry residents opposing golf course closure for redevelopment or something similar.
I actually like the greenspace that golf courses provide. I'd hate to see Encanto go.
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  #11334  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 11:39 PM
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They should sell the golf courses at full market value, then use the money to route the pool of water east of Tempe Town Lake down the Salt River channel to restore the habitat there. You turn the manufactured waste of the golf course into real nature.

Hance Park renovations could also use the money, especially now that the private market is showing a lot of interest developing near it.
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  #11335  
Old Posted Yesterday, 12:25 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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My understanding is the hance park renovations are nearing their start.
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  #11336  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:57 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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As someone who golfs, the demographics around Encanto are not really ideal to sustain that course. It is an old course. I feel the city just wanted to subsidize it for all this time because they felt they needed to provide a cheap alternative to the residents. I noticed that those that use that course are older and probably dwindling in numbers. Most everyone from the affluent to retires prefer the courses far north and east valley. I say turn it into a distribution development!
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  #11337  
Old Posted Yesterday, 6:19 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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I noticed that those that use that course are older and probably dwindling in numbers.
This is not specific to Encanto Golf Course. Golf is, in general, a dying sport. More literally than figuratively.
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  #11338  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:47 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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This is not specific to Encanto Golf Course. Golf is, in general, a dying sport. More literally than figuratively.
huh? The narrative that 'golf is dying' is, well, dying.


Golf had a CRAZY boom in the early 2000's, mostly attributed to Tiger Wood's popularity and a great economy. Courses were popping up like mushrooms, market got WAY too saturated... seemed to be the case for just about every industry, ha!

Like any bubble, it popped, and we saw years of consolidation. Plus the worst economic recovery since the Depression certainly doesn't help a sport that has an expensive barrier to entry.

Looking at actual golf participation statistics, the industry bottomed out about 2 years ago (still above pre-Tiger levels) and is coming back STRONG. In 2016 2.5 million people played golf on a golf course for the first time (higher than at it's peak during Tiger).

Plus you have the Top Golf phenomenon which is totally changing the way new players touch & experience the sport.


Totally agree, we're still going to see some 'urban' course closures. But the sport of golf is stronger than it's been in years!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmat.../#55f52c70729f
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  #11339  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:00 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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yeah, okay.

Golf is not attracting young players. If you don't attract youth and your core audience/participants die off, that's the definition of a dying sport. Google search will give you two very different takes and much like anything they are polar opposites. One could argue either way. I'm not going to argue, but my take is that as a life long player I'm seeing fewer people on the course and it's easier to get a tee time. It's not just by a little bit, either.
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