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  #1081  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 10:39 AM
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Yassss!! Absolutely gorgeous design at 45 Bay. I hope it goes ahead as is. *drooling*
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  #1082  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Just realized something, they'll have direct access to subway, streetcar, GO bus and GO train right downstairs! No need to walk through PATH or go outside from the office to the suburbs...these buildings will be guaranteed to get tenants!
These towers will have the best transit access of any project in Toronto. I have no doubt that they will find tenants. The first tower (on the 45 Bay plot itself) is to be built on spec, according to the person who broke the story several weeks ago (and was completely accurate in what he reported, even though several people on UT attacked him as a rumour-monger at the time). I predict that this tower will be completely leased by the time construction starts, and the second tower will be started long before the currently projected 2022 construction date. Unless a depression happens before that, or something.

There are actually three "double towers". Each of the three buildings consists of what looks like two connected towers, but are actually one wide tower each.

Last edited by Mongo62; Aug 9, 2014 at 12:14 PM.
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  #1083  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 12:30 PM
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In addition to becoming the most luxurious bus station in Canada (thanks for nothing Burberry Department Store) it will also have a tower which is bound to disappoint us again at what looks to be a snip under 1000 Feet/300 meters. The short tower of 230 meters starts on spec!!!

Toronto IS THE NEW Calgary!!!
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  #1084  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 12:58 PM
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I wouldn't go that far.

I am started to worry that we are in a bit of an office bubble here, Toronto isn't experiencing super fast GDP growth but yet seems to have tons and tons of large office towers in the works.

if there really are this many large buildings being shopped around, there must be a couple of very large tenants shopping around. We (sort) of know about TD, but I doubt you would see this much if that was the only tenant.. There must be some larger tenants as well. Maybe a bank is looking at moving out of its current tower? or consolidating suburban space into a downtown building? hmmm..
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  #1085  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 1:56 PM
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So, 3 towers instead of two.

Someone must be looking for space and a statement.
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  #1086  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:33 PM
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woah - great news to wake up to on a Saturday morning
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  #1087  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I wouldn't go that far.

I am started to worry that we are in a bit of an office bubble here, Toronto isn't experiencing super fast GDP growth but yet seems to have tons and tons of large office towers in the works.

if there really are this many large buildings being shopped around, there must be a couple of very large tenants shopping around. We (sort) of know about TD, but I doubt you would see this much if that was the only tenant.. There must be some larger tenants as well. Maybe a bank is looking at moving out of its current tower? or consolidating suburban space into a downtown building? hmmm..
Scotiabank, Manulife or Rogers perhaps? Magna seems to be doing well too but they're more of a suburban company. Scotiabank tower is completely overcrowded with people packed in like sardines on most floors and Rogers and Manulife both seem to lack major office facilities for such large companies.
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  #1088  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:38 PM
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Manulife are in the process of adding another tower to their Corporate Park in Mississauga
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  #1089  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:42 PM
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In terms of a 'bubble' I agree but I don't think it'll happen, these 'on spec' rumors are just that.

Moreover keep in the 3 brand new office proposals (Union Center / 45 Bay / 156 Front) none of them have started or are even rumored to be starting (sure they're looking for tenants but until that happens ..) Its quite normal for real estate companies to what to have a leg up by having a project ready to go. If you look to the past, this has happened many times, and in quite a few scenarios an office building was A) never constructed, or B) only done so years later ..

Speculation about particular companies:
1) Rogers ... I very much doubt you'll see them do anything if not shed real estate, for those who don't follow the news they've been in cost (and head count) reduction mode for the last couple of months and this will likely continue ...
2) Manulife: They own plenty of space on Bloor ... just recently they've been renovating their existing premises to fit more people into existing space ... there large lease at 1 Queen E (what used to be maritime life I believe) they're returning to the market and likely just consolidating space.


With all that said it is clear TD is looking for space, one would hope this is space in the core ... I think this could be the catalyst for one of the developments above and if I had to guess it would likely be Union Center, because that's probably a lot closer to being ready to start than 45 Bay.

Even that may not happen, Oxford place and BAII both have around 400K (a little less) available, and could easily meet that demand in a shorter time frame.


In other words, don't get too excited, but I'm sure these will be built one day !
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  #1090  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 2:47 PM
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Ok these are gorgeous!! Nicest office towers proposed in Canada in the last 10 years. If these get built WOW. This is a well thought out project and needs to get built exactly like the render. I have butterflies!
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  #1091  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by taal View Post
In terms of a 'bubble' I agree but I don't think it'll happen, these 'on spec' rumors are just that.
On spec is the wrong wording, or at least incomplete. Either they're building a bus terminal for Metrolinx (Metrolinx is a huge signed tenant or paying for construction) or they're not. They're not building a bus terminal on spec.

So, while the terminal portion is under construction they put out feelers for a lease and either they get some hits and build the tower or they don't and the bus terminal gets a roof for a few years.

Last edited by rbt; Aug 9, 2014 at 3:48 PM.
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  #1092  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rbt View Post
On spec is the wrong wording, or at least incomplete. Either they're building a bus terminal for Metrolinx (Metrolinx is a huge signed tenant or paying for construction) or they're not. They're not building a bus terminal on spec.

So, while the terminal portion is under construction they put out feelers for a lease and either they get some hits and build the tower or they don't and the bus terminal gets a roof for a few years.
Sure maybe I can see that ... but, are you implying metrolinx it self will be a tenant ? Possible, they're not 'huge' by any stretch though, I doubt they'd take any more then 100-200K ... the other odd part about that is they ust renovated the building to the south for their offices no !?


Actually maybe I'm wrong, they could be in the building right above Union, any idea who the main tenats are in 1 Front West currently i.e. Dominion Public Building ?
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  #1093  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 4:00 PM
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45 Bay looks quite impressive.
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  #1094  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by taal View Post
Sure maybe I can see that ... but, are you implying metrolinx it self will be a tenant ? Possible, they're not 'huge' by any stretch though, I doubt they'd take any more then 100-200K ... the other odd part about that is they ust renovated the building to the south for their offices no
For the bus terminal portion of the design? Yes, absolutely certain Metrolinx is the intended tenant; something like a bus terminal isn't designed in isolation on the off-chance it could be useful to someone. This puts that south structure at about 30% leased by construction cost; and conveniently they want the bottom floors.

TTC isn't very interested in running a regional bus terminal at a loss anymore and Greyhound doesn't have the financial resources to build their own.
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  #1095  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rbt View Post
For the bus terminal portion of the design? Yes, absolutely certain they are the intended tenant. Something like a bus terminal isn't designed in isolation on the off-chance it could be useful to someone.

TTC isn't very interested in running a regional bus terminal at a loss anymore and Greyhound doesn't have the financial resources to build their own.
Sorry that's not what I'm implying, metrolinx has employees, quite a few, and was suggesting maybe they will be a tenant in the building as well.

I actually doubt the 'bus terminal' would function as 'tenanted' real estate ... I'd imagine the province would pay back expenses / tax breaks, and what not, vs say paying lease back to the company.
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  #1096  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by taal View Post
Sorry that's not what I'm implying, metrolinx has employees, quite a few, and was suggesting maybe they will be a tenant in the building as well.
I see. I thought Metrolinx was already moving everybody into Union Station? Do they still have a need for a consolidated office location?
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  #1097  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:28 PM
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There's a big trend in recent years for IT to move out of its traditional suburban business park homes and into downtown office towers. That could very well fuel demand for downtown Toronto office space.

Isn't Celestica selling off their Eglinton & Don Mills campus? If they move downtown they'd need a LOT of space.
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  #1098  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:29 PM
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Wow.
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  #1099  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
There's a big trend in recent years for IT to move out of its traditional suburban business park homes and into downtown office towers.
Which is hilarious because in 2000 I worked IT (webhosting) downtown along side Amdocs, Cisco and similar.

15 years to move to the burbs then back downtown again is a pretty darn short cycle for a product (office space) where the terms are measured in decades.

Last edited by rbt; Aug 9, 2014 at 6:01 PM.
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  #1100  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2014, 8:38 PM
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That 45 Bay proposal is fantastic! Something Toronto would love to have!
Can't wait for it to come into fruition!
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