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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 12:56 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 12:57 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
"It’s not appropriate to simply take a national historic site and then add on to it exactly in the architectural ground it was originally conceived in because that just confuses history,” Clewes told the Citizen on Thursday."

So we're not allowed to match old architecture anymore? Umm, why? Who made up this silly rule? As long as you don't claim afterwards that it was built as part of the original structure, you're good. I think they claim this because they get to show off their own designs this way, instead of just extending an established design. And they think they're too important for that.
If the pretensions of architects were inflammable, we'd never need to pump another drop of oil out of the ground.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 12:58 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by eltodesukane View Post
I don't get the uproar.
Is the Chateau Laurier expansion any worse than the Canadian Museum of Nature expansion?
Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Hells yes.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:00 PM
Temperance Temperance is offline
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Thumbs down

I'm also not opposed in principle to modern additions to old buildings but this addition looks hideous. I think from some angles it is ok, and on its own it is also ok (though a bit faddish), but on the Chateau Laurier it is awful. This is especially the case looking at the Chateau from Major's Hill Park, which is currently a really beautiful view.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 3:55 PM
movebyleap movebyleap is offline
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I think the Chateau deserves better than Toronto's condo king.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 4:20 PM
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Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
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The Chateau Frontenac as it stood in 1910, and what it is today — originally designed by an American architect (Bruce Price) and added on to decades later (the central tower by Canadian William Sutherland Maxwell). Not only did they manage to quadruple the size of the hotel, they also augmented the grandeur of the building and made it even more iconic. Why the heck can't we do this now? Why do we have this reluctance to actually make history instead of being limited by what was done?





I can see why creating a historically dishonest building from scratch might confuse perception, but when it comes to additions, the rules used in creating the original building should be fair game. There really should be an option for a more seamless aesthetic, not just some watered-down ghost of a building that differs from the original. In this day and age when stone can be carved by computer-controlled machines, it could even be an expression of technological advancement.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 5:06 PM
passwordisnt123 passwordisnt123 is offline
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I remember a while back somebody in this forum had photoshopped a concept design of an expanded Chateau Laurier basically making the ass end of the hotel look presentable and making Majors Hill Park into like a courtyard. I remember thinking at that time that it was really impressive. I tried finding it just now and couldn't. Anybody remember where that post was? May suddenly be relevant again.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
I remember a while back somebody in this forum had photoshopped a concept design of an expanded Chateau Laurier basically making the ass end of the hotel look presentable and making Majors Hill Park into like a courtyard. I remember thinking at that time that it was really impressive. I tried finding it just now and couldn't. Anybody remember where that post was? May suddenly be relevant again.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=203

That was actually me. Bear in mind that that was just a cut and paste concept not a design.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 5:29 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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What's really impressive is that this is like the fourth or fifth iteration of the plan, all done behind closed doors, and with the feedback of both the NCC and City Hall... neither of which has a population of even one person who was willing to put their hand up and suggest that it might not fly with the public.

And that includes at least one elected official.

No wonder the city has such a spotty urban planning and design record.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 6:10 PM
passwordisnt123 passwordisnt123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=203

That was actually me. Bear in mind that that was just a cut and paste concept not a design.
Yes! Excellent. I'd love to see this go through. You should mail that to City Council and the mayor.

You may call that a cut and paste concept rather than a design but I'd call it a significant improvement over this bizarre proposal released yesterday.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 6:57 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Similar to how the Chateau Frontenac added some height, I think it might be impressive if they could get a tower that blended in well (i.e., used similar decorative style, including roof style) to do what kitchissippi's concept did. That is, have a tower that is narrow enough that it doesn't hide the original diagonal views, but adds a new, higher dimension to them. Around the back (park) side of the tower, would be the terrace with stairs to the park, as in kitchissippi's image.
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 7:13 PM
UrbOttawa UrbOttawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=203

That was actually me. Bear in mind that that was just a cut and paste concept not a design.
If something similar to that was built, imagine how much more epic the views from the locks would be
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 7:25 PM
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If something similar to that was built, imagine how much more epic the views from the locks would be
I think that cut and paste addition in the same architectural style is awesome-add an archway into the courtyard from the back and you've created something special.

Architect is defending his work: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...expansion-plan

I am getting very frustrated with all these elites insisting that they cannot mimic the style. If its a true work of art; imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Take some pride in construction as they did originally and honour the building by using the same style. For me, slapping these different styles on as an addition is actually dishonouring the structure and I think many people feel the same way.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 7:41 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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The addition is a misguided abomination. So "circa 2016" it's painful. The architect and the owner completely miss the point: Railway Chateau as a style is a deliberate historical pastiche. To add something so banally modern is contradictory to the style's raison d’être.

Larco is not a great choice for custodian of heritage buildings. it's president, Shiraz Lalji, demolished a celebrated mid-century Arthur Erickson designed house in favour of a god knows what.
http://www.priceypads.com/graham-house-demolished-2007/
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 9:41 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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reposting Kitchissippi's concept for easy reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Here's another one of my photshopped fantasies...

I find it really unfortunate that the Chateau Laurier turns its back on Major's Hill Park. It's sort of a missed opportunity that they've put an ugly parking garage between the hotel and the park:



Most châteaux in France have a "domaine", and there could be a really nice symbiotic relationship between the Chateau Laurier and Majors Hill Park. All the parking would be put in a new underground garage and a new addition to the hotel built on top to finish its backside. The enclosed courtyard could have a nice outdoor pool and garden. The hotel would be allowed to slightly encroach on the park and in turn provide amenities and animate the space. There would be a terrace with sweeping views of the park and Parliament Hill, and restaurant/cafe patios that can be accessed from the park. I imagine a similar situation between the Chateau Frontenac and Dufferin Terrace in Quebec City.

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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 11:22 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is offline
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I still like this concept. Although, I also envisioned some sort of archway into the courtyard from Major's Hill Park. Something sorta like:

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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 12:07 AM
NOWINYOW NOWINYOW is offline
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We have a steel/glass structure going up at the NAC, people seemed happy.

We have a steel/glass structure at the Museum of Nature.

I'll admit, what is being proposed at the Chateau L may not be my first choice, it's by no means hideous.

I think some people are looking at the renderings and not realizing this new addition will not be visible from Wellington/Elgin. The plan is to light up the new structure during the evenings. Similar to the NAC. What's wrong with that?

People should be thankful the Chateau L didn't contract Claridge to design this addition.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 1:00 AM
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The Château Laurier ought to reject ugliness – like other great hotels

Shannon Gormley
Published on: September 16, 2016 | Last Updated: September 16, 2016 1:28 PM EDT


My God, is it ugly. Not a daring and radical ugly: an obliviously boorish ugly.

The proposed addition to the Château Laurier is the type of ugly that causes offence offhand but has neither the nerve nor imagination to genuinely appall, the type of ugly that shows up to an event to which it hasn’t been invited and bumps into a tray of canapés but doesn’t overturn the table or light the curtains on fire. It hasn’t even the decency to make a true spectacle of itself.

That, at least, would be something to look at. This ugly isn’t a fascinating study in contrast; it’s a clumsy exercise in clashing, a casual debasement of common standards, the ugly you witness if a salesman – a little inebriated, plenty brash – strides up to an elegant woman on the street and, only vaguely appreciative of her beauty but quite sure of his own right to free speech, globs on.

“Well wouldya look at that, our exteriors are the same colour!“ he might say, believing himself to have found an in with the prettiest thing in town. She ignores him but can’t escape him, and everyone looks the worse for it.

So too, the ugliness of this extension isn’t confined to the corner it sits on. It’s a global ugliness. I mean that literally, in part. A landmark hotel is its country’s architectural greeter, introducing foreigners to a nation’s particular manners and style: foreign dignitaries meet and sleep in its rooms; foreigners who can’t afford a bed visit the lobby and bar for tea or drinks. Visitors don’t come for ugly, and when they come in spite of it they’ll wonder what ugly is doing here.

That might nearly be tolerable, the imposition of an impoverished aesthetic on travellers who can always fly back to Europe, were the ugliness of this expansion not global in another sense. Each city has a place where people go to be their best. When that place is coarsened, so is everyone. When it’s updated with respect, it inspires all who pass by to live up to their surroundings. The great old hotels remind us that just because we’re legally allowed to say whatever we like, at whatever volume we like, into whatever device we like, while wearing whatever brand of denim cut-offs we like, civility will always require us to consider the preferences of the people with whom we share space.

This being a moment of gross incivility, perhaps it’s natural that an oaf of an edifice could soon loom over Ottawa. It’s loud, it’s awkward, and it doesn’t care how much room it takes up and what it tramples upon. This extension is an anti-social bully that shouts down a building that is, above all else, hospitable and courteous.

Ottawa should be encouraged to hear, however, that such ugliness is not inevitable. Many other landmark hotels – the vast majority of them, in fact – have opted to not make themselves ugly. The Paris Ritz closed for extensive renovations for several years, but when it reopened no one was even surprised to learn that it had managed to update the furniture without attaching an ugly suburban office building to its exterior. Claridge’s in London has lived in its Art Deco building for more than 100 years, and is so popular with royals that it’s said to be the “annex to Buckingham Palace”; the Palace might move out were it ever annexed by an overbearing, ugly box. Another Art Deco masterpiece, New York’s Waldorf Astoria, has similarly resisted uglification. And many other legends decline to choose ugly over fewer rooms, for they understand that to do so would be rude.

Their goal is to make guests comfortable. For what’s the point of etiquette, if not to put people at ease? Especially when in the company of strangers, who are least likely to be comfortable with us, we have some obligation to present ourselves decently. Some buildings will always have hideous manners, but the capital city’s landmark hotel can’t be among them.

Shannon Gormley is an Ottawa Citizen global affairs columnist and freelance journalist.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...r-great-hotels
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 1:01 AM
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rocketphish rocketphish is online now
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We're a government town — of course we hate edgy architecture

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 16, 2016 | Last Updated: September 16, 2016 6:00 PM EDT


Maybe it’s as simple as this: Ottawa gags on modern architecture.

Maybe not, but the five-alarm freakout over the Château Laurier addition suggests some deep-seated resistance to modern design, especially when it comes to touchstone buildings in the Parliamentary precinct, our very own Gothic-Victorian dollhouse.

From most angles, the proposed addition to the Château looks pretty inoffensive — in fact, it echoes the aged copper and pale stone of the original hotel. The one image from the rear did seem to overpower, but this may have been an aspect bungle or Photoshop fart. Hard to know.

It’s worth keeping in mind, by the way, that the architectural taste of the average bloke can’t be trusted. Is this not why we have acres of beige suburbs, and more Merivale roads than we really should, because this is the median of what, collectively, we find “attractive”?

If you’re like me, you live in a mature neighbourhood where there’s lots of infill, probably of the boxy variety. “Doesn’t fit in” is a criticism often repeated, as though “fitting in” is the over-riding design imperative and “sticking out” is a mortal sin. Or we just hate modern architecture.

The Memorial to the Victims of Communism? I suspect most people disliked it because it was not literal enough, jarred with the Supreme Court design, and just seemed jumbly and incoherent, compared to the language of visual expression in, say, the National War Memorial. Had it been a statue and a plaque, there’d be no controversy.

Some of y’all are old enough to remember the controversy over the massive expansion of Ottawa City Hall when it lived on Green Island in the late 1980s.

Moshe Safdie, an architect with sparkling international reputation (National Gallery), won the competition and was proposing a pair of twin towers — about 55 metres high — in his original design, though they had no real utility. People went cuckoo. “A lot of show-off nonsense,” huffed a neighbour.

“My third objection is the extravagance of the building,” wrote a young whippersnapper named Jim Watson, of Capital ward, no doubt typing in his chinos and plaid shirt. “Mr. Safdie should have been reminded he was building a municipal building, not a palace.”

So, what did council do? They cut the towers out to save $1.5 million, putting Safdie in a suing mood for demonstrably changing his design. Here lies mediocrity by committee: honestly, will that not be chiselled on Ottawa’s tombstone?

Architecture, too, is one of those fields where the thing we hate today is the thing we love tomorrow. They wanted to tear the Eiffel Tower down straight away. The glass pyramid addition at the Louvre had some Parisians in a tizzy. The striking Guggenheim museum in New York was once mocked. Our beloved Cattle Castle nearly met the wrecker’s ball.

Allan Teramura is an Ottawa architect and the president of the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada. He was travelling this week but managed to see some of the images of the Château proposal.

“I would actually say the design for the addition to the Château Laurier is actually quite respectful of the original building, from what I can tell.”

But he understands the criticism.

“It’s not surprising when you start altering an iconic building that means a lot to many people,” he said. “That’s kind of the curse of being an architect.”

But there’s no way around it, he said. Older buildings can only be preserved or enhanced if modern building techniques are brought to bear— and that can affect the appearance in a jarring way.

He agreed that, architecturally, Ottawa is a conservative city.

“Absolutely. I’m not sure exactly why that is. I think part of it is Ottawa’s never had the kind of aspiration to be a great city the way some other cities have.”

We lack big corporate headquarters, for one, have very few captains of industry willing to leave their built marks and live with rows of forgettable office buildings constructed on the public purse for maximum function and minimum price — thus, a lack of extravagance.

“There is a lot of really terrible, unforgivably bad stuff that gets built in Ottawa that barely gets mentioned, right?”

So the presence of so much mediocre design has a “levelling” effect on our expectations of the city’s built environment, he added.

“Anything that’s a little edgy I think tends to make people uncomfortable.”

There’s a move afoot — of course there is! — to have the Château owners smooth “the edgy” right out.

My God, we’re boring.

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email kegan@postmedia.com
Twitter.com/kellyegancolumn

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...y-architecture
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 1:42 AM
sestafanos sestafanos is offline
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I think Ottawa's architecture is pretty boring, and I love modern design. I probably love it more than most people in this city...and I actually like the modern infills that "stand out"...but that design is just horrible...so much so that I am actually scared it gets built by accident.
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