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  #9581  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2012, 9:09 AM
BCPhil BCPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Saving money on construction is misguided if you end up with a building full of units that don't sell - something that developers understand very well. They won't ditch the parking spaces unless they're sure that the units will sell without them. Then they'll laugh all the way to the bank...
Not if it's something they all do at the same time.

By your logic, there should be a really smart developer out there that builds his condos 200sqft larger than the competition and sells it at just a tinny bit more. He would make a killing! I mean, we would all love more space at the same price, right? So why doesn't a developer do that and he would sell out every unit in the building right away?

And even though a building without enough parking might sell out, that doesn't mean it is a satisfactory condition. You'll have people right off the bat that will feel they can get by parking on the street, or "I can survive without a car", without realizing that is what everyone thinks. Maybe down the road more families get children and need that extra (or first) car, which just makes it that much harder to find parking. The developer's walked away with his money (even if he had to lower prices to sell with no parking, it is still profitable). Then, years down the road, it is the community that suffers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
Where is this?

In my condo at Park Place, the underground parking is easily 1/3 empty, if not more. I've spoken to friends in D'Corize and CityPoint and both report the same thing. Ironically, these buildings all received parking reductions due to SkyTrain proximity if I'm not mistaken. There is a trend here worth exploring.
I live somewhere more than a block away from Skytrain, like MOST of Surrey. I don't have a PhD or anything, but that might have something to do with it.

Park Place is also a new community that's not even 100% sold out. Wait until some of the pimps and dealers there knock up their bitches and hoes, then see how parking will be. Plus there are probably some investment properties in the building that don't have tenants yet. Some other people might have sacrificed their car to afford the down payment on their place, and when their finances stabilize or they get a raise at work they will go out and buy a car so they can at least do weekend road trips with their new girlfriend and dog.

I went a year without a car just fine. Then one day, got a raise and decided I would love to be able to leave the lower mainland again or go shopping and buy big heavy things, whenever I wanted. People change.
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  #9582  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2012, 11:23 AM
Millennium2002 Millennium2002 is offline
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Your post has some good points, and I'm sorry for bringing the issue up, but I think you can probably word one part of it a bit better. Perhaps it's just me being too politically correct...
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  #9583  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 1:12 AM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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Question. I catch the 160 at Burrard Station at 5:58. Driver says its supposed to be $5 to Coquitlam. I told the driver I would pay an extra $1.25 if he crosses Boundary by 6:30pm but he says I'm supposed to pay for the zones travelled based on my departure time. Huh? I've always been able to get on with just a one zone ticket, I wonder if it was because I paid cash that he noticed.

He let me on anyway and btw I owe him $1.25 as promised as soon as I can make my way to the front.
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  #9584  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 1:19 AM
st7860 st7860 is offline
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If you want convenient transit, live closer to King George station -- there are plenty of options nearby.
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  #9585  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 2:05 AM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
Question. I catch the 160 at Burrard Station at 5:58. Driver says its supposed to be $5 to Coquitlam. I told the driver I would pay an extra $1.25 if he crosses Boundary by 6:30pm but he says I'm supposed to pay for the zones travelled based on my departure time. Huh? I've always been able to get on with just a one zone ticket, I wonder if it was because I paid cash that he noticed.

He let me on anyway and btw I owe him $1.25 as promised as soon as I can make my way to the front.
Were you the one who put money into the machine when you got off.. somewhere on Guildford?

I think it is, but for regular routes, you can technically get off and on at the same stop on the same bus immediately after 6:30, so it sort of "reset" your departure time. 160 is sort of special since you cannot get off the bus before you travel two zones.
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  #9586  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 2:11 AM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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LOL that was me. Hey I am a man who sticks to his word.
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  #9587  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:04 AM
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logan5 logan5 is offline
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It'll be interesting to see how the Evergreen Line will effect the WCE ridership, with a direct connection at Port Moody Station. An Evergreen passenger would have the option to transfer at Port Moody and take the WCE and get to Waterfront in 25 min vs Skytrain, which would take 35 minutes from the same location.

I wonder if it would be possible in the future for Translink to build its own tracks along the same route as the WCE - using light rail technology. The track would at grade all the way and would be ballasted, making it a lot cheaper to build.

While WCE is faster than Skytrain by a lot from Port Moody, it could be even faster.

The 21 km distance between between Port Moody and Waterfront (where there are no stations in between) takes the WCE train 25 min., for an average speed of 50 km/h. A much better performing light rail vehicle could probably do it in 15 minutes - far faster than driving. The cost would be around 30 million per km.

Maybe something we'll see 30 years from now.
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  #9588  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:40 AM
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jlousa jlousa is offline
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Translink doesn't own the land it would have to buy a ROW (major $$$) and there just isn't the space to law more tracks along the existing route, at least cheaply. Renting track time is really the only option they have along that corridor.
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  #9589  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:41 AM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
The 21 km distance between between Port Moody and Waterfront (where there are no stations in between) takes the WCE train 25 min., for an average speed of 50 km/h. A much better performing light rail vehicle could probably do it in 15 minutes - far faster than driving. The cost would be around 30 million per km.

Maybe something we'll see 30 years from now.
I think we would have a better chance of electrifying the track than building a completely new line (or is that what you mean).

The reason that WCE is so slow is mostly due to the high traffic and the track being at-grade. I believe the current track speed limit is 60km/h within the city of Vancouver, 90km/h before Maple Ridge, and 110km/h after (maybe a regular rider have more info on this?)

Believe it or not, the current locomotive they use is capable of running as fast as 180km/h. However, we do not have a track capable of running a train that fast. As of now, spending billions on upgrading the track doesn't make any economical sense.
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  #9590  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 6:02 AM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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The West Coast Express actually takes 21 minutes between Waterfront and Port Moody. I used a GPS to track speed and trains top out at 60 km/h within Vancouver, 70 km/h through Burnaby to Port Moody, 90 km/h to Port Haney (remember top speed not average), and 120 km/h to Mission.

West of Clark, the trains are limited to 40-50 km/h. Still, it takes less than 10 minutes for trains to reach the Second Narrows Bridge.
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  #9591  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 7:06 AM
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logan5 logan5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
The West Coast Express actually takes 21 minutes between Waterfront and Port Moody. I used a GPS to track speed and trains top out at 60 km/h within Vancouver, 70 km/h through Burnaby to Port Moody, 90 km/h to Port Haney (remember top speed not average), and 120 km/h to Mission.

West of Clark, the trains are limited to 40-50 km/h. Still, it takes less than 10 minutes for trains to reach the Second Narrows Bridge.
The WCE site says 25 minutes so I went with that. At 21 minutes it would now be a 14 minute time savings over Skytrain. Pretty damn good transit options in Port Moody and Coquitlam.

Quote:
I think we would have a better chance of electrifying the track than building a completely new line (or is that what you mean)
Electrifying the current track would be even cheaper, but it doesn't seem worth it unless we get a more expanded schedule. Although other cities seem to be able to pull this off, with freight activities happening at night. I'm just estimating the time savings - taking into consideration the LRV's vastly superior acceleration and braking performance, which should allow for some highre top speeds - the travel times should be substantially shorter, attracting new ridership. A fuller schedule would attract more ridership as well.
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  #9592  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 1:52 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Does the WCE break even on operating expenses vs revenue?
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  #9593  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 4:10 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
Question. I catch the 160 at Burrard Station at 5:58. Driver says its supposed to be $5 to Coquitlam. I told the driver I would pay an extra $1.25 if he crosses Boundary by 6:30pm but he says I'm supposed to pay for the zones travelled based on my departure time. Huh? I've always been able to get on with just a one zone ticket, I wonder if it was because I paid cash that he noticed.

He let me on anyway and btw I owe him $1.25 as promised as soon as I can make my way to the front.
That reminds me of when my wife took the #25 once, westbound from the corner of Boundary and Kincaid. She asked for a Zone 1 bus ticket, given that it's on the boundary (the 28 bus route, a block east, has no problem with giving zone 1 or 2 tickets out) and the woman bus driver said okay and gave her a 1-zone zone 2 ticket anyway.

My wife explained it to her and the bus driver just didn't care and told her

The silly thing is, by giving her a zone 2 ticket, the bus driver basically gave her an invalid fare. Technically, you can't even get ON that bus at that stop without paying for a 2-zone ticket, even if you're just taking the bus 200m across boundary to the next stop, so really, the bus driver should've told her she needed a 2-zone ticket to get on.

It really illustrates a weakness of the zone system. Of course, some bus drivers don't understand that the zone system is essentially a crude distance-based fare system and as such, leeway should always be provided when buses are within a stop or two of the zone boundary.

Most bus drivers are fine, but my wife has always said that it's usually the female drivers that are the biggest sticklers for sticking to the letter of the law, rather than reason the principle behind a rule is more important than the rule itself. That's her observation, anyhow.

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  #9594  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:38 PM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
That reminds me of when my wife took the #25 once, westbound from the corner of Boundary and Kincaid. She asked for a Zone 1 bus ticket, given that it's on the boundary (the 28 bus route, a block east, has no problem with giving zone 1 or 2 tickets out) and the woman bus driver said okay and gave her a 1-zone zone 2 ticket anyway.

My wife explained it to her and the bus driver just didn't care and told her

The silly thing is, by giving her a zone 2 ticket, the bus driver basically gave her an invalid fare. Technically, you can't even get ON that bus at that stop without paying for a 2-zone ticket, even if you're just taking the bus 200m across boundary to the next stop, so really, the bus driver should've told her she needed a 2-zone ticket to get on.
I'm pretty sure the zone are now pre-programmed and is determined based on bus route number and GPS location. So if our wife is really slow in paying the fare, the machine may print out a zone 1 ticket instead

The #28 is really a special case as its a common zone 1/2 bus, and almost each stop nearby have its own set of fare rule. TransLink have a special section on the fare section for it... The stops you mentioned is technically within a common zone 1/2.

In short:
  • Kootenay Loop is in zone 1
  • Joyce Station is in zone 1
  • All stops on Vaness Ave are in zone 1
  • All stops on with the pole physically on Boundary Roads are common zone 1/2
  • All stops on Burke, Smith, Canada Way, Laurel, Henning, and Lougheed where the 28 stops at, are common zone 1/2
  • Stop 51538 on Kincaid is common zone 1/2
  • Stop 58344 in front of Gilmore Station is common zone 1/2
  • Every other stops east of Boundary are zone 2
  • Every other stops west of Boundary are zone 1

Confusing, eh?
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  #9595  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 6:16 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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No, unfortunately the GPS and location of the bus does not automatically change the fare zone. It is still done manually by bus drivers.
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  #9596  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 6:17 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
She asked for a Zone 1 bus ticket, given that it's on the boundary (the 28 bus route, a block east, has no problem with giving zone 1 or 2 tickets out) and the woman bus driver said okay and gave her a 1-zone zone 2 ticket anyway.
That bus stop is a Zone 2 bus stop, but that's pretty stupid given its location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Does the WCE break even on operating expenses vs revenue?
90 to 95% recovery on the West Coast Express.


Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
The WCE site says 25 minutes so I went with that. At 21 minutes it would now be a 14 minute time savings over Skytrain. Pretty damn good transit options in Port Moody and Coquitlam.
My train left Port Moody late this morning at 8:19 (track maintenance between Port Moody and Coquitlam) but still managed to arrive at Waterfront at 8:38. I usually take the 5:30 train in the evening and it typically gets to Port Moody at 5:51-5:52. Scheduled departure time is 5:54 but it'll typically leave a bit earlier to maximize layover time at the busier Coquitlam Central Station where trains can take two minutes to unload.
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  #9597  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 6:32 PM
st7860 st7860 is offline
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translink drivers have to push a button on their farebox control panels to change the zone. its not automatic. thus, sometimes drivers forget.
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  #9598  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 10:20 PM
nname nname is offline
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2011 Bus Route Stats

Annual Riders (thousands)
Code:
99	16,642
20	9,177
41	8,460
9	8,298
16	6,891
3	6,676
8	6,573
22	6,046
135	6,032
25	5,998
49	5,880
19	5,875
14	5,766
106	5,242
410	4,750
10	4,631
7	4,288
319	3,623
321	3,623
97	3,392
239	3,301
4	3,175
5	3,173
320	3,148
130	3,145
502	3,055
6	3,006
17	2,829
401	2,710
84	2,500
145	2,499
240	2,468
100	2,409
250	2,392
403	2,027
44	2,007
33	1,962
701	1,924
129	1,889
2	1,810
28	1,747
144	1,641
43	1,623
123	1,585
26	1,530
229	1,495
341	1,459
160	1,323
210	1,321
351	1,313
312	1,282
430	1,260
255	1,225
27	1,220
169	1,185
323	1,178
257	1,142
50	1,116
101	1,110
480	1,098
501	1,064
230	1,015
152	997
601	985
246	974
112	958
407	951
155	941
340	937
402	932
143	924
C23	908
228	904
154	894
232	892
236	836
156	833
335	824
110	810
151	780
375	755
324	721
15	718
325	713
364	676
211	660
159	656
620	633
104	617
301	598
29	569
C38	567
404	557
136	556
C21	551
314	547
C28	547
405	515
332	510
345	505
C24	490
253	484
116	482
C3	477
134	473
316	473
791	471
640	464
177	414
252	405
251	399
595	383
C27	362
C4	357
C75	329
C7	316
326	308
212	307
241	302
157	293
C73	284
C15	283
254	280
C62	279
214	262
337	252
C37	248
C29	241
C5	238
C8	232
153	221
209	203
590	197
C20	195
C30	184
32	181
395	176
C36	171
C76	164
311	153
354	150
388	142
C92	140
C93	140
125	131
352	126
602	122
C44	121
C71	121
N19	121
C40	119
C53	118
C51	117
509	113
C9	111
C70	111
C6	108
329	105
394	104
C26	103
C43	103
N9	92
393	90
247	88
C96	87
C52	85
C50	83
C63	82
C25	81
C45	81
N10	81
C61	80
C60	76
C1	75
391	73
N35	71
604	70
N17	70
C2	68
C47	68
C46	67
256	66
603	66
C64	65
258	58
N24	58
179	57
C41	48
190	47
189	46
C98	43
C86	40
C12	38
N20	38
C22	28
242	26
C49	25
C94	22
N22	22
C84	20
C48	18
C89	18
608	17
C19	17
C87	16
C88	16
N8	16
259	11
N6	11
606	10
N16	10
N15	9
C99	8
231	2
C90	2
Weekday Riders:
Code:
99	54,350
20	27,900
9	25,300
41	24,800
16	21,250
8	20,150
3	19,950
49	19,700
135	19,600
25	19,300
22	18,550
14	17,550
19	17,100
106	16,250
410	14,700
10	14,590
7	12,900
319	11,400
321	11,250
97	10,750
239	10,350
130	10,200
502	9,700
4	9,600
320	9,550
5	9,400
17	9,350
6	9,100
145	9,050
84	9,000
401	8,850
44	8,050
100	7,500
240	7,400
250	6,950
43	6,500
33	6,450
129	6,200
403	6,100
701	5,700
28	5,600
144	5,550
123	5,050
26	5,000
341	4,650
480	4,400
210	4,250
160	4,100
312	4,100
2	4,000
351	4,000
255	3,900
27	3,800
430	3,800
143	3,700
323	3,700
101	3,650
C23	3,650
169	3,500
50	3,450
257	3,300
246	3,250
402	3,250
152	3,200
230	3,200
501	3,200
112	3,050
601	3,050
155	3,000
229	3,000
407	3,000
340	2,950
154	2,850
228	2,800
232	2,800
335	2,800
110	2,750
156	2,650
151	2,500
324	2,350
325	2,300
15	2,250
236	2,250
104	2,200
159	2,200
375	2,150
211	2,100
301	2,100
364	2,100
345	2,000
791	1,900
C38	1,900
136	1,850
314	1,850
C28	1,850
29	1,800
253	1,800
404	1,800
116	1,700
620	1,700
C21	1,700
405	1,650
332	1,600
640	1,600
C24	1,600
134	1,500
316	1,500
177	1,350
252	1,300
251	1,250
C27	1,250
241	1,200
C3	1,100
326	1,050
157	1,000
C7	1,000
C75	1,000
254	950
C8	950
C73	950
212	900
C15	900
C62	900
214	850
337	850
C29	850
C37	850
590	800
153	750
C5	750
32	700
395	700
595	650
C30	650
311	600
C20	600
C36	600
209	550
388	550
C76	550
C92	550
125	500
352	500
354	500
602	500
C4	500
C44	500
509	450
C93	450
394	400
C43	400
C51	400
C71	400
247	350
329	350
393	350
C6	350
C9	350
C26	350
C45	350
C53	350
C70	350
391	300
604	300
C25	300
C50	300
C96	300
N19	300
179	250
256	250
258	250
603	250
C1	250
C46	250
C47	250
C60	250
C61	250
C63	250
N9	250
189	200
190	200
C2	200
C41	200
C52	200
C64	200
N10	200
N35	200
C40	150
C86	150
C98	150
N17	150
N24	150
C12	100
C22	100
C49	100
C94	100
259	50
608	50
C48	50
C84	50
C87	50
C88	50
C89	50
N20	50
242	40
606	40
N8	40
N22	40
C99	30
N6	30
N15	30
N16	30
231	10
C90	10
Cost per Rider:
Code:
99	0.61
44	0.78
C23	0.78
145	0.90
20	1.02
C20	1.04
3	1.06
312	1.07
8	1.09
41	1.10
C8	1.13
125	1.15
106	1.16
5	1.17
43	1.18
C7	1.18
6	1.21
9	1.21
19	1.21
230	1.22
323	1.27
16	1.29
84	1.30
49	1.31
135	1.32
155	1.32
319	1.32
C24	1.33
27	1.34
32	1.35
112	1.35
14	1.36
97	1.37
C5	1.37
314	1.41
154	1.42
2	1.43
332	1.43
26	1.46
25	1.47
320	1.47
240	1.49
C21	1.50
C6	1.52
C15	1.52
7	1.54
130	1.55
229	1.58
101	1.59
143	1.59
242	1.59
C30	1.59
401	1.60
22	1.61
4	1.62
239	1.62
169	1.63
325	1.64
C29	1.64
393	1.68
321	1.69
10	1.71
C75	1.71
C3	1.74
C36	1.75
395	1.76
241	1.77
152	1.78
228	1.78
29	1.82
391	1.82
410	1.82
236	1.83
28	1.84
402	1.84
100	1.87
156	1.88
324	1.88
620	1.89
430	1.90
33	1.93
C73	1.95
N17	1.95
247	1.97
210	1.99
403	2.00
17	2.03
502	2.03
123	2.04
345	2.04
151	2.05
340	2.08
335	2.12
104	2.16
C46	2.16
232	2.17
129	2.20
480	2.21
212	2.23
C71	2.24
C45	2.26
C28	2.27
C52	2.27
C86	2.28
144	2.29
C27	2.29
C38	2.29
341	2.33
C53	2.34
C62	2.37
50	2.38
375	2.38
157	2.42
701	2.43
326	2.48
501	2.50
159	2.51
C47	2.51
364	2.53
214	2.54
C92	2.54
116	2.57
329	2.58
C98	2.62
602	2.64
N35	2.69
C76	2.72
C37	2.74
316	2.76
C40	2.76
C2	2.78
C4	2.78
407	2.79
153	2.81
404	2.85
388	2.90
15	2.93
211	2.98
C1	2.99
C51	2.99
160	3.00
590	3.07
110	3.09
134	3.11
C63	3.15
246	3.16
179	3.19
311	3.19
509	3.21
601	3.24
C44	3.27
394	3.32
C96	3.32
209	3.34
301	3.39
C60	3.41
C61	3.41
C50	3.42
C19	3.43
136	3.46
C93	3.47
N9	3.50
N19	3.54
604	3.59
352	3.62
354	3.62
C90	3.64
640	3.65
608	3.66
189	3.71
C41	3.76
C64	3.77
405	3.85
C26	3.90
C70	3.96
C25	3.98
C9	4.03
791	4.07
C43	4.10
177	4.17
190	4.17
N24	4.30
C49	4.31
N20	4.34
C22	4.37
351	4.46
603	4.46
C89	4.81
N6	4.92
N22	4.92
C48	5.05
595	5.09
C87	5.09
C84	5.29
N10	5.42
337	5.69
C88	6.76
C94	7.32
606	7.70
N8	9.62
C99	11.15
N16	11.45
N15	12.86
Source

Last edited by nname; Jun 15, 2012 at 11:31 PM.
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  #9599  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 11:23 PM
djh djh is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
2011 Bus Route Stats

Annual Riders (thousands)
Code:

99 16,642
...
Hmm, are you sure about *thousands*? I'm not sure how you're supposed to interpret this table then.

So your table says the #99 bus gets 16 MILLION annual riders....
Uh-hum...
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  #9600  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 11:23 PM
xd_1771's Avatar
xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
(daka_x)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
2011 Bus Route Stats
If you could post a source link and perhaps a bit on your methodology, because I'd really like to use this as a reference for official documents.

EDIT: Never mind - found that source myself [LINK]
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