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  #161  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Not true on both counts. Osoyoos is NOT a desert. Secondly, Windsor, Ontario has the most heat units in Canada. Southern Ontario has the hottest summers in Canada and the fasted ripening fruit.
Interesting. Osoyoos has been coining the phrase about being Canada's desert for as long as I can remember. I guess to Canadians it feels like a desert even though scientifically it isn't. I'll have to check out Ashcroft sometime, looks interesting.

I don't recall saying Osoyoos was the hottest place in Canada. I know they have on average the hottest daily average temps in the summer, but the definition for hottest place, is open to interpretation. there are several ways it can be defined.

As for the fruit...Osoyoos has been trumpeting the fact that they are the earliest for fruit. I did some googling, and it appears they are the first, or at least tied for first. See links below.

Windsor Essex fruit calendar
http://visitwindsoressex.com/wp-cont...4-Schedule.pdf
Osoyoos fruit calendar
http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/treefrt/product/harvest.htm
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  #162  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 6:12 PM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Originally Posted by Surrealplaces View Post
Interesting. Osoyoos has been coining the phrase about being Canada's desert for as long as I can remember. I guess to Canadians it feels like a desert even though scientifically it isn't. I'll have to check out Ashcroft sometime, looks interesting.

I don't recall saying Osoyoos was the hottest place in Canada. I know they have on average the hottest daily average temps in the summer, but the definition for hottest place, is open to interpretation. there are several ways it can be defined.

As for the fruit...Osoyoos has been trumpeting the fact that they are the earliest for fruit. I did some googling, and it appears they are the first, or at least tied for first. See links below.

Windsor Essex fruit calendar
http://visitwindsoressex.com/wp-cont...4-Schedule.pdf
Osoyoos fruit calendar
http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/treefrt/product/harvest.htm
It probably depends on the fruit. The thing about BC versus Ontario is that BC has a warmer winter and spring, and Ontario has a warmer summer and fall. Therefore, early crops like cherries might be earlier in BC than Ontario, but late crops might be ahead in Ontario. Of course, it really depends on the year. This year BC is miles ahead since it is rivally 1958 as the warmest summer on record.

The only places that could be earlier than Osoyoos for cherries would be in BC. Places like Spences Bridge or Lytton, or even the coast if we're talking hay crops. Even within BC, the western part is generally much hotter earlier than the eastern part of BC. Here's an example of how the hottest places in BC vary against each other during the three summer months. Note that the hottest place, Spences Bridge, is not on the list since that weather station was closed in 2002.



There's no question that Ashcroft is the most arid place in Canada, but the question of the hottest summers in Canada is an interesting one, and most definitely not cut and dry. This is contentious issue, and one that is more hotly debated than a Middle East conflict. Flame wars have even been ignited over it on Wikipedia with some editors banned or reprimanded.

When you drive through Lytton, British Columbia, you'll see a sign declaring themselves Canada's hot spot. Not to be outdone, Osoyoos uses the slogan, "Canada's warmest welcome." Over in Saskatchewan, where they hold Canada's all-time hottest temperature, they also try to lay claim to the prize. And let’s not forget Windsor, Ontario, where they have the highest mean summer temperature in Canada, or the south coast of British Columbia where you will find the country’s highest annual average temperature.

With all this in consideration, the question remains, however, who IS Canada's hot spot?

The answer is a complicated one that first requires us to define the term.
  1. If we are talking mean average annual temperature, then it's going to be around the Chilliwack/Abbotsford area of British Columbia.
  2. If we are talking about the average annual maximum temperature, then Osoyoos, British Columbia, is the hottest place in Canada.
  3. If we are talking about the place with the highest extreme temperature in Canada, then Midale and Yellowgrass, Saskatchewan, are the hottest places in Canada.
  4. If we are talking about the mean average temperature in the hottest month, then Windsor, Ontario, is the hottest place in Canada.
  5. If we are talking about the average maximum temperature for the entire summer, then it might be a Osoyoos, Ashcroft , or perhaps Spences Bridge.
  6. If we talking about the place most likely to be hottest place in the country in a given year, then Lytton, British Columbia, is the hottest place in Canada.
  7. If we are talking about the place with the most number of days above 35 degrees, then Ashcroft or Spences Bridge is Canada's hot spot.
  8. If we are talking about the place with most days above some other value, then the hottest place in Canada could be Ashcroft, Osoyoos, or Lillooet.
  9. If we are talking about the average maximum temperature in the hottest month, then Osoyoos, British Columbia, might be the hottest place in Canada. But then again, it might not.
After we have defined the terms, we have to consider the margin of error. Some sites are faulty, and other sites might have used faulty instruments. Also, some weather stations have been extinct long ago, while other ones have only started up more recently. Comparing such sites can be problematic.

The Saskatchwan records seem like outliers since their extreme heat waves are few and far between. Therefore, these one-off extremes should not be used as the defining criteria. Next, Windsor, Ontario, is quite warm with the warmest average mean in the height of summer, but only because the nighttime temperatures are warmer than anyone else. The case could be made that Windsor has the most hours above a certain temperature, but since this is Canada, that “certain temperature” would be too low to be considered meaningfully hot.

It might make sense to use the annual mean or maximum temperatures in the tropics, but in the dead of winter, it’s hard to refer to -10 weather as hot simply because the competition is closer to -20. Hence, I’m inclined to disregard highest mean in Chilliwack and even the fact that Osoyoos, BC, has the highest average annual maximum temperature in Canada - or at least until I feel the need to “impress” my dinners guests with useless weather trivia.

The southwestern interior of British Columbia is most definitely the hottest area in Canada due to frequent hot weather during the summer months. For this reason, we need to compare the various communities located there.

I've also run the climate data for the 6 hottest weather stations in existence today: Ashcroft, Kamloops, Lillooet, Osoyoos, and Warfield/Trail for the past 4 years. First looking at the number of days per year greater than a certain temperature, we get the following summary:

PLACE WITH THE GREATEST NUMBER OF DAYS
> 40 ----------Lytton
> 39 ----------Lytton
> 38 ----------Lytton
> 37 ----------Ashcroft
> 36 ----------Ashcroft
> 35 ----------Ashcroft
> 34 ----------Osoyoos
> 33 ----------Osoyoos
> 32 ----------Osoyoos
> 31 ----------Osoyoos
> 30 ----------Osoyoos
> 29 ----------Osoyoos
> 28 ----------Osoyoos
> 27 ----------Osoyoos
> 26 ----------Osoyoos
> 25 ----------Ashcroft
> 24 ----------Ashcroft
> 23 ----------Ashcroft
> 22 ----------Osoyoos
> 21 ----------Osoyoos
> 20 ----------Lillooet
> 19 ----------Lillooet
> 18 ----------Lillooet
> 17 ----------Lillooet
> 16 ----------Lillooet
> 15 ----------Lillooet
> 14 ----------Lillooet

To summarize the list above, Lytton has the most number of days above 38°C (100 °F), Ashcroft 35-37°C, Osoyoos 26-34°C, Ashcroft 24-25°C, Osoyoos 21-23°C, Lillooet 14-20°C. Where we draw the line is both arbitrary and debatable.

While you contemplate the merits of using the above criteria, I will continue with the average summer maximum temperatures.

The average maximum summer (June, July, August) temperature (past 4 years):
  • Osoyoos = 28.72
  • Ashcroft = 28.70
  • Lillooet = 28.1
  • Kamloops = 27.6
  • Trail = 27.3
  • Penticton =27.2
  • Lytton = 27.1

If we conclude that the place with the highest average high in the summer is the hottest spot, then Osoyoos is it based upon the data above, but what about historical weather stations no longer in existence as well as the margin of error?

Analyzing all data from 1873 onwards and adjusting for year-to-year deviations from the normal, I’ve calculated following average summer temperatures:
  • Osoyoos CS--------------------29.6°C (85.3°F)
  • Lillooet (1881 - 1942)--------29.0
  • Ashcroft (2010 - present)-----28.9
  • Spences Bridge----------------28.8
  • Spences Bridge Nicola---------28.7
  • OliverSTP---------------------28.7
  • Ashcroft North----------------28.5
  • Osoyoos West------------------28.4
  • Lillooet East-----------------28.3
  • Hedley North------------------28.2
  • Ashcroft (1973 – 1979)--------28.1
  • Lillooet (1998 - present)-----28.0
  • Oliver------------------------28.0
Note the large difference between the two Osoyoos weather stations even though they are less than half a kilometer apart and at the same elevation. Weather records in Osoyoos first started in 1954 with various stations coming and going since then. If we compare the 20 year overlap of the "Osoyoos West" station and the "Spences Bridge Nicola" station, there is no question that Spences Bridge is hotter in the summer, but when we compare the automated weather station a mere 430 metres away, Osoyoos CS, against the "Spences Bridge Nicola" station, Osoyoos is warmer.

That is until closer inspection where it appears that Osoyoos might not be hotter because the Osoyoos CS weather station was reading erroneously high during the first 15 years of operation. Going back to 1954, Osoyoos could never managed to achieve BC or Canada's hottest annual temperature, but suddenly the Osoyoos CS station comes on the scene in 1990, and for 15 years the town is Canada's hot spot most years. Then just as suddenly, Osoyoos stopped recording the highest temperature of the year.



Error from the thermometer is said to about 1 degree Fahrenheit at extreme temperatures, but I can clearly see a few stations reading worse than that. For examples, when North America’s coldest temperature was recorded back in 1947, the thermometer was sent into the lab because the meteorologist had to etch a mark below the lowest number. When they tested the thermometer in the lab, they found that the thermometer was off by 3 degrees.

If we compare Osoyoos CS with the nearby Osoyoos West station for the 20 years of overlap, we can see that Osoyoos was reading high in July for 15 years, and suddenly started recording reasonable temperatures from 2005 onwards. This is either because the site was not set up right (you can see from Google maps that it is set pretty close to the pavement), or perhaps because of a faulty instruments. The difference occurred during extreme heat, which would be consistent with known problems with some modern electronic sensors in that the error jumps up significantly as the temperature approaches 40 degrees Celsius, and I think that this is what happened in Osoyoos. I suspect that the weather station was upgraded around then or perhaps the thermometer drifted over time as semiconductor temperature sensors will do over time.

Because the two Spences Bridge weather stations are so similar, I’m included to believe those two were accurate, so I think that Spences Bridge is hotter in the summer, but that’s assuming that the Osoyoos West station wasn’t reading too low. Ashcroft could also be the hottest spot, but I’m wondering if the modern Ashcroft station (also an electronic instrument) is also reading a little high, though not nearly as farfetched as the original Osoyoos CS station.

Conclusion:
The hottest place in Canada can be narrowed down to two areas within the southwestern interior of British Columbia. The most likely location is along the Thompson River between Lytton and Ashcroft (Spences Bridge is in the middle of this area), but the extreme south Okanagan valley in and around Osoyoos is a close second.
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  #163  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post

Conclusion:
The hottest place in Canada can be narrowed down to two areas within the southwestern interior of British Columbia. The most likely location is along the Thompson River between Lytton and Ashcroft (Spences Bridge is in the middle of this area), but the extreme south Okanagan valley in and around Osoyoos is a close second.
Lots of good and interesting scientific data on temps for BC.

My conclusion...both those places are damned hot in the summer
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  #164  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Are you saying that the Osoyoos is hotter or drier than the zone in Washington State (Richland, Wenatchee, Yakima, etc.)? If so, maybe you should check your sources again. Osoyoos is 40% wetter than Richland, which given the cooler temperatures is definitely less arid.
These days, maybe not, lol! ( . . but you are comparing a micro-scale climate to a meso-scale climate.)

Your research is; however, most astute.
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  #165  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Surrealplaces View Post
Lots of good and interesting scientific data on temps for BC.

My conclusion...both those places are damned hot in the summer
Definitely seems like the worst heat in Canada.
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  #166  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Definitely seems like the worst heat in Canada.
Except it's a dry heat and therefore more comfortable than areas with lower temperatures but higher humidity, like Southern Ontario.
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  #167  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Except it's a dry heat and therefore more comfortable than areas with lower temperatures but higher humidity, like Southern Ontario.
Too dry and that's bad on its own, you want a bit of humidity. Learned that on the badlands.
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  #168  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 11:27 PM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Originally Posted by SkydivePilot View Post
These days, maybe not, lol! ( . . but you are comparing a micro-scale climate to a meso-scale climate.)

Your research is; however, most astute.
What do you mean my meso-scale? Washington State is much hotter and drier than BC, so how can that be a micro-scale climate? As you go south the climate just gets hotter and drier. It also gets wetter as you go east, so if you are dividing the non-coastal west into two regions, then of course the Okanagan would be the 2nd driest.

Last edited by Glacier; Aug 26, 2015 at 11:59 PM.
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  #169  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Except it's a dry heat and therefore more comfortable than areas with lower temperatures but higher humidity, like Southern Ontario.
Hey now. Some people like breathing air conditioners and spending most of their summers indoors.
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  #170  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 12:34 AM
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Hey now. Some people like breathing air conditioners and spending most of their summers indoors.
Haha, let's not act like people in the Interior don't have A/C.

This dry vs humid heat debate has been beaten to death. Some people prefer dry others humid. There is no good heat or bad heat, everyone has their own preferences. You could make a list of pros and cons for both.
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  #171  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 1:13 AM
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Hey now. Some people like breathing air conditioners and spending most of their summers indoors.
That would be me in July in Osoyoos, at least in the heat of the day. I really can't cope with temperatures over 30C, dry or humid.
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  #172  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 1:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Are you saying that the Osoyoos is hotter or drier than the zone in Washington State (Richland, Wenatchee, Yakima, etc.)?
Looking at your own links, Osoyoos actually has a hotter July avg. high temp. than either Richland, Wenatchee, or Yakima, WA. And Osoyoos also has a hotter August avg. daily high temp. than 2 of 'em.

But who cares? Akin to someone arguing whether Phoenix or Vegas has hotter temps.
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  #173  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 1:43 AM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Looking at your own links, Osoyoos actually has a hotter July avg. high temp. than either Richland, Wenatchee, or Yakima, WA. And Osoyoos also has a hotter August avg. daily high temp. than 2 of 'em.
Wrong. That data is from the station started in the 1990s. You have to look at the full 30 year period to get an accurate average. This station is 500m away from that more recent automated station known for erroneous readings, and because it includes the cooler 1980s, has a lower average. It is much cooler than average than any of those stations listed. You have to compare apples to apples, such that all the stations cover the same 30 year period.
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  #174  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2015, 4:15 AM
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Too dry and that's bad on its own, you want a bit of humidity. Learned that on the badlands.
I had forgotten that summer nights can get surprisingly cold when it's dry, even when the days are hot. (It had been years since the last time I spent enough time in a dry area to realize that, even though I'm supposed to know it.)
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  #175  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 12:34 AM
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Meares Island nearby Tofino (Vancouver Island) is what I would call a paradise. It's an uninhabited island which has been speared from human touch.

From Tofino you have to take a boat to Meares Island. On the way there you see eagles, crabs, birds, seals, ...







On island there is only a small plank trail called The Big Tree Trail and boy, it is exactly that! Boats only bring a few people to the island at once, so you have all the serenity almost to yourself!







The trees on this trail are massive. MASSIVE. There are three especially distinguished red cedars along the trail that are each between 1000 and 1500 years old! These trees are among the oldest in Canada.







These ancient red cedars are huge. HUGE!





Hugging a living giant.



The Hanging Garden is where the trail ends and it is the largest of them all with circumference of 18.3 metres (60 feet)!



Meares Island is a must-see when in Tofino, although hopefully it will stay relatively unknown and is speared from the crowds. I have never seen trees this big and only some individual red cedars down in California should be bigger than them. They are impressive to say the least and make you really humble.

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  #176  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 5:07 AM
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I'm sorry, but those trees are just too small for my liking.
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  #177  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 5:32 AM
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Meares Island is like from a fairy tale. One would not believe that such ancient things still exist in our world. Just to think that Medieval Ages was only beginning when those trees were sprouting some 1500 years ago. It's mindboggling.

I highly recommend visiting Meares Island when it rains, as the rain only adds to the experience of walking in a thick old rainforest.
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  #178  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 3:08 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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I'm sorry, but those trees are just too small for my liking.
Well you should see the tooth picks they grow in Toronto!

I think Klazu needs to visit the okanagan valley with his camera!
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  #179  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 3:16 AM
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Meares Island is indeed a paradise. I went there last about 11 years ago.
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  #180  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 3:31 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Meares Island is indeed a paradise. I went there last about 11 years ago.
You certainly travel well. When is your next visit out west?
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