Does Canada Support People with Disabilities.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

It's a strange situation since 20 years ago MUN made a deal with her that she didn't need to accommodate disabilities. The situation back then didn't cause much of a stir so that 'worked'.

I suspect when it popped up again this time and the fan started flinging crap everywhere, the first thing MUN did was try to force her to accommodate... only to get that forgotten agreement thrown back at them. Talk about awkward places.

Note that the Professor in question is Hindu. (And the CBC comments for what they are worth, are suspecting it is a caste issue and not a religious issue).

Yeah the deaf are the forsaken and don't deserve education how enlightened.

Seriously though the caste system is as bad to the poor as islam is to women.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Yeah the deaf are the forsaken and don't deserve education how enlightened.

Seriously though the caste system is as bad to the poor as islam is to women.

It's perhaps worth noting that the student in this case has not definitively been denied accommodation - the reports suggest that he dropped the course rather than challenge the matter and then when to the media with his complaint. It's still one of those stories where it seems like relevant bits have not been reported.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's perhaps worth noting that the student in this case has not definitively been denied accommodation - the reports suggest that he dropped the course rather than challenge the matter and then when to the media with his complaint. It's still one of those stories where it seems like relevant bits have not been reported.

What he's to pay for a course he may hope to get credit for.

If she's this much of a cunt, and by all local accounts she is, he's not gonna get a fair grading scheme.

Your not making sense, mun clearly has to adress hte issue regardless.

And what I think so many folk are missing is the overall scale of the issue.

The legal system itself is at odds with people that are not the average. As soon as it's impossible to be the average person the laws really turn on you in various ways, as our entire legal system is based around the idea of the average person


Nobody that is disabled has the luxury of making themselves a martyr.

Part of people disabled is compound effects.

The people most in need most often are far to vulnerable to make a stand.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Stryker

What he's to pay for a course he may hope to get credit for.

If she's this much of a cunt, and by all local accounts she is, he's not gonna get a fair grading scheme.

Your not making sense, mun clearly has to adress hte issue regardless.

And what I think so many folk are missing is the overall scale of the issue.

The legal system itself is at odds with people that are not the average. As soon as it's impossible to be the average person the laws really turn on you in various ways, as our entire legal system is based around the idea of the average person


Nobody that is disabled has the luxury of making themselves a martyr.

Part of people disabled is compound effects.

The people most in need most often are far to vulnerable to make a stand.

I've already said that MUN needs to accommodate the student (I'm not sure he has asked the university, as opposed to just the professor). I would seem like a simple enough thing to do, depending on what's actually in the agreement between the prof and the school).

I'm not sure what you mean in that other paragraph. The law (more specifically the interpretation of it) is supposed to be directed not at the "average man" but at "the man in the street", which to me includes the disabled in today's society.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

It's a strange situation since 20 years ago MUN made a deal with her that she didn't need to accommodate disabilities. The situation back then didn't cause much of a stir so that 'worked'.

I suspect when it popped up again this time and the fan started flinging crap everywhere, the first thing MUN did was try to force her to accommodate... only to get that forgotten agreement thrown back at them. Talk about awkward places.

Note that the Professor in question is Hindu. (And the CBC comments for what they are worth, are suspecting

it is a caste issue and not a religious issue

).

So if I put two and two together, this means that disabled people are, according to certain belief systems, for lack of a better term, inferior untouchables, and therefore should not be accommodated or catered to by superior (read- able-bodied) people.

If that's the case (not saying it is), then this is precisely the type of BS we should not be allowing to gain a toe-hold in Canada, under the guise of religious or cultural accommodation.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So if I put two and two together, this means that disabled people are, according to certain belief systems, for lack of a better term, inferior untouchables, and therefore should not be accommodated or catered to by superior (read- able-bodied) people.

If that's the case (not saying it is), then this is precisely the type of BS we should not be allowing to gain a toe-hold in Canada, under the guise of religious or cultural accommodation.

In the unlikely event that this has something to do with caste (now THAT would be an interesting test case for the courts!), I suspect it would be more on the lines of her high caste being somehow tainted by broadcasting - the case relates to a deaf person, not to all the disabled. I'm assuming that this prof would have not trouble teaching a student with cerebral palsy and good hearing, for example. Again the way this MUN story has been reported just invites speculation.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the unlikely event that this has something to do with caste (now THAT would be an interesting test case for the courts!), I suspect it would be more on the lines of her high caste being somehow tainted by broadcasting - the case relates to a deaf person, not to all the disabled. I'm assuming that this prof would have not trouble teaching a student with cerebral palsy and good hearing, for example. Again the way this MUN story has been reported just invites speculation.

Yes, we would need more information in order to have a truly fulsome discussion.

That said, the scenario I described would not be out of character for certain belief systems out there which millions of people adhere to.

[Trevor3]

I took courses with the professor in question at MUN. She is the most intelligent person I have ever encountered, no question. 100% old school university professor who pushes students hard, rewards effort and demands co-operation among her students. If I had to guess, she probably told him she wouldn't wear it, and if he's going to keep the class he would have to obtain notes from another student where applicable, though I have never taken notes in Ranee Panjabi's class.

Generally her classes are seminars which don't include lectures or class discussion. They are presentations/reviews of student papers on a topic, peer evaluation of the paper and feedback on the paper with mandatory attendance where every student provides recommendations on how to improve the work you have put together.

Panjabi has several degrees and, among other things, is a lawyer. If she obatained this ability to deny accommodation you better believe that she did her research on it and had the T's crossed and I's dotted on it. Nothing escapes her.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

I took courses with the professor in question at MUN. She is the most intelligent person I have ever encountered, no question. 100% old school university professor who pushes students hard, rewards effort and demands co-operation among her students. If I had to guess, she probably told him she wouldn't wear it, and if he's going to keep the class he would have to obtain notes from another student where applicable, though I have never taken notes in Ranee Panjabi's class.

Generally her classes are seminars which don't include lectures or class discussion. They are presentations/reviews of student papers on a topic, peer evaluation of the paper and feedback on the paper with mandatory attendance where every student provides recommendations on how to improve the work you have put together.

Panjabi has several degrees and, among other things, is a lawyer. If she obatained this ability to deny accommodation you better believe that she did her research on it and had the T's crossed and I's dotted on it. Nothing escapes her.

None of which makes her necessarily a good (or a bad) person.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by Acajack

None of which makes her necessarily a good (or a bad) person.

Didn't say it did.

These are just observations/experiences of myself which I feel are relevant to the side of the story which isn't reported, namely hers.

[Taeolas]

More details on the '96 case from the CBC.

Apparently it isn't a major religion, but her own personal beliefs.

Originally Posted by CBC Article

In 1996, Panjabi told the student paper the Muse that she practises a form of mysticism that springs from Hinduism.

"The microphone would interfere in the harmony I must always feel between my inner self and my outer person," Panjabi told the Muse at the time.

"Nothing must mar the soul's identification with the person."

But Memorial's letter sent to McDonald in 1996 raised questions about Panjabi's defence.

"[Panjabi] explained to her Department Head and the Dean of Arts at length that her reasons were of a religious nature, based not on a universal precept of a particular tradition but on her personal spirituality and commitments," Tuinman said in that 1996 letter.

"She gave the Dean examples of how this same principle, based on her understanding of the harmony between spirit and body, prevented her from wearing devices such as a Walkman radio or tape player."

In 1985, Panjabi refused to wear a microphone to assist hearing-impaired student Jeanie Bavis.

However, Bavis said that Panjabi did not cite religious reasons that time.

"[Panjabi] said she wasn't going to wear it because she didn't have to and it wasn't in her contract," Bavis told the Muse.

"There was certainly no religious excuse."

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

I took courses with the professor in question at MUN. She is the most intelligent person I have ever encountered, no question. 100% old school university professor who pushes students hard, rewards effort and demands co-operation among her students. If I had to guess, she probably told him she wouldn't wear it, and if he's going to keep the class he would have to obtain notes from another student where applicable, though I have never taken notes in Ranee Panjabi's class.

Generally her classes are seminars which don't include lectures or class discussion. They are presentations/reviews of student papers on a topic, peer evaluation of the paper and feedback on the paper with mandatory attendance where every student provides recommendations on how to improve the work you have put together.

Panjabi has several degrees and, among other things, is a lawyer. If she obatained this ability to deny accommodation you better believe that she did her research on it and had the T's crossed and I's dotted on it. Nothing escapes her.

In turn, I've heard stories from people who've taken her classes and she's said some truly awful, rude things to students in front of the entire class. Maybe it's meant to inspire students to be the best they can, but ultimately we're in a classroom, not on the football field. There's no place for this style of teaching in the classroom; I believe it does more mental harm than good.

The bottom line here is there's a high chance that she's just a bitch. I don't take huge issue with that as there are plenty of awful professors at many different schools. My problem lies in MUN facilitating this type of behavior. I used to think that MUN was up there with the top comprehensive schools in this country, but I've become tired of trying to think of excuses for its failures. Ultimately, as an alumni, I'm extremely embarrassed about that's going on here.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

Didn't say it did.

These are just observations/experiences of myself which I feel are relevant to the side of the story which isn't reported, namely hers.

I say this from the bottom of my heart when I say piss off.

These details are irrelavent, lots of seemingly admirable people do horrible things all the time.

In fact the whole point of this situation is that someone's credentials allows someone to wave basic rights of people.

[itom 987]

I am a deaf person that hears through a cochlear implant. If I was a student in Ranee Panjabi's class and she refused to wear a bluetooth microphone. I would tell her that she is impeding my right to an education, and would send her to court if she doesn't comply. I am very confident a case like this would be winnable.

[ssiguy]

I have a disability of extreme epilepsy but is controlled {somewhat} under medication.

Had it since I was 10 and in the late 90s was having up to 300 seizures a day. I'm doing fine and there are new and better medications out there but I don't try them. If I was to have even one seizure even during the transition I would automatically lose my license. I don't really drive but they would not make any allowances. Also I have the most extreme form of epilepsy you can get.............status epiletis. It happens to about one in every 80,000 once in their lives so statistically I'm the one guy who will have in their lifetime in WR/SS..........makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

It's potential life threatening and can cause brain damage. I was in a coma for 2 days. It's when you have a grand mal seizure but instead of coming out of it you automatically go into another. My landlord who found me said I was so drenched in blood they didn't even know who I was.

With Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joan of Arc, Edgar Allen Poe, VanGogh, Agatha Christie, and Nobel can have epilepsy I figure I'm in damn good company.

[ssiguy]

Should really add to that list Socrates, Napolean, Caligula, Lenin, Harriet Tubman.

There has always been speculation as to way a VASTLY disproportionate number of historical figure have epilepsy seeing it only effects about 2% of the adult population........ seizures near the end of life are not considered to be epilepsy as they are simply a consequence of falling health and under the age of 2 are not counted as most would go undetected and, it is suggested, that as much as 40% of all classic "crib deaths" are actually deaths from epilepsy as more advanced post-mortem neurological studies are beginning to verify.

Statistically there is no proof of higher IQs amongst people with epilepsy but there does seem to be more people with epilepsy in the higher IQ balanced by more in the lower IQ levels such as those with mental handicaps. Basically a person with the standard 100 IQ is less likely to have epilepsy than a person with a 70 IQ or a 130 IQ.

One thing that has been proven is that Frontal Lobe epilepsy is the part of the brain that effects leadership qualities which helps explain the vastly disproportionate number of great leaders in history who had epilepsy.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I have a disability of extreme epilepsy but is controlled {somewhat} under medication.

Had it since I was 10 and in the late 90s was having up to 300 seizures a day. I'm doing fine and there are new and better medications out there but I don't try them. If I was to have even one seizure even during the transition I would automatically lose my license. I don't really drive but they would not make any allowances. Also I have the most extreme form of epilepsy you can get.............status epiletis. It happens to about one in every 80,000 once in their lives so statistically I'm the one guy who will have in their lifetime in WR/SS..........makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

It's potential life threatening and can cause brain damage. I was in a coma for 2 days. It's when you have a grand mal seizure but instead of coming out of it you automatically go into another. My landlord who found me said I was so drenched in blood they didn't even know who I was.

With Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joan of Arc, Edgar Allen Poe, VanGogh, Agatha Christie, and Nobel can have epilepsy I figure I'm in damn good company.

I've had 3 grand mals in the last year, on medication now but god dam they are not nice.

I don't have epilescy however, the best I figure is that intense anxiety and lack of sleep kinda causes it.

I was 6 months seizure free two days ago, so I can get my liscenes back, and there is next to zero percent chance of me having another as long as I take the meds.

That being said my dad had one 3 weeks ago after being seizure free for 32 years.

That being said the meds I"m on suck . They really slow me down in a way that isn't fun.

Anyways all that said I guess my point is that I never really appreciated what they were like until I started having them.

[SignalHillHiker]

I think it's a mixed bag, really. Surely life isn't easy here for people with disabilities. While walking downtown, I've seen a family trying to get a wheelchair-bound man from a house on a portion of Cookstown Road with stairs as the sidewalk out the door, over the railing, and into his wheelchair right in the roadway. And there's very little consideration given to people with mobility issues at locations and events here. I think the hills just make people give up and say, well, b'y, you're frigged anyway, nothing we can do.

But, by world standards, Canada's definitely doing O.K. The term "invalid" is still official in many countries. In some, parents who have children with disabilities mourn as though it was a stillbirth and off the child goes into state care - it's the done thing. In many others, there are no supports. Any disability means a life of begging. So we've made some progress, but not enough.

And that doesn't even touch on the invisible disabilities people may have, such as mental illnesses and conditions. The type of ones where social interaction is just a little awkward. I think those people are at real danger of being gradually outcast even today.

[ssiguy]

Well the nation as a whole better start dealing with it because the number of people who have a disability will continue to rise at a much higher rate than the general population.

Between being a quickly aging population and people surviving more traumatic events due to improving science and healthcare the numbers are going to keep rising.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

With Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joan of Arc, Edgar Allen Poe, VanGogh, Agatha Christie, and Nobel can have epilepsy I figure I'm in damn good company.

Hate to burst your bubble, but its very unlikely that any ancient figure could be reliably diagnosed with epilepsy. These are mostly just cases of people finding things that they wanted to find.