East end and west end in Toronto: similarities and differences

[Docere]

Some differences between the east end (old city east of DVP) and west end (old city west of Bathurst):

- The west end contains a larger land area and has about twice the population

- The east end developed a bit later than the west end, maybe about a decade later on average (west end was pretty much built up by WWI; the Don delayed development in the east)

- The east end is more skewed toward SFHs, the west end has more renters and apartments

- Both have seen much gentrification, hipsters, yuppies etc. but the east end has a bit more of a mature population and is overall quieter than the east end

- Both were historically mostly working class, but the west end was more "white ethnic" from the 1910s through the 1970s and the east end was very anglo until that time.

- There's a smoother transition from downtown to the west than to the east

[trofirhen]

I love The Beaches district. To bad it's not on the ocean, though. (I can't help it, I'm from Vancouver, please excuse me)

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Docere

- Both have seen much gentrification, hipsters, yuppies etc. but the east end has a bit more of a mature population and is overall quieter than the east end

Correction: overall, the east end is quieter than the west end.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I love The Beaches district. To bad it's not on the ocean, though. (I can't help it, I'm from Vancouver, please excuse me)

Many would say it's the east end's best neighborhood.

[schoolmaster]

well said

[megadude]

Good observations. I've had this thought of this as well. Though I don't live in the city as I'm suburban, so I don't have the same perspective as city dwellers.

Correct me if some of my assertions below are wrong or outdated.


The east has always seemed grittier than the west:
- The Port Lands are east of downtown.
- The Don River seemed more polluted than the Humber, though the Don has been cleaned up recently.
- Regent Park and Moss Park are in the east
- Scarboro has a more ghetto reputation than Etobicoke. Though they both have rough 'hoods like Malvern and Rexdale. Also both have nice areas like The Bluffs and The Kingsway.

- As you said, more people in the west. So there tends to be more things to see and do in the west, particularly when you include the western GTA:
- YYZ
- BMO Field, Ex, Amphitheatre, Ricoh, Royal Agriculture, Fort York.
- High Park
- Cheltenham Badlands in Caledon
- Downsview, particularly for big outdoor concerts
- Centennial Park (particularly the ski hill and Pan Am BMX track)
- Many more indoor and outdoor go kart tracks in the west. I don't think the east has an indoor track at all.
- Glen Abbey home of the Canadian Open
- Rogers Cup tennis at York
- Toronto's rugby team plays at Lamport Stadium just above BMO Field
- The cricket venue is at Maple Leaf Cricket Club in King City, which lies just west of Yonge, so just NW of Toronto
- Canada's Wonderland in Vaughan
- Niagara Escarpment
- Way more small lakes/reservoirs right in the dense and rural suburbs suitable for small craft for kayaking or fishing
- The most populous suburbs of Mississauga and Brampton
- Most prestigious suburb of Oakville, plus Burlington, plus Caledon, plus King, which is where you'll find more mansions and estates. Oak and Burl are consistently ranked in the top few cities to live in in Canada. And Caledon apparently has more millionaires per capita than anywhere and has been ranked by Maclean's as safest city in Canada many times.
- Horse racing. Woodbine and Mohawk, and Flamboro very close. Though Ajax does have a track. Rural Milton and Halton Hills have dozens and dozens of training tracks if you look at google maps. And Pan Am equestrian centre is in Caledon.
- Cycling. Milton and Caledon in the escarpment you'll find tonnes of cyclists. It's also where the Velodrome is.

For the mountain bikes, you got Kelso/Glen Eden when it's not a ski hill in the winter. This is where they do MTB races with that varied downhill terrain and then a bunch of groomed twists and turns.

And for BMX you got Pan Am track in Etobicoke, a small track in Sauga, and a nice one in Milton. Plus it's about an hour to get to a really nice one in Cambridge. And can't forget the one in between the Gardiner at Sunnyside Park.

- West end is closer to US and Niagara and more populous cities. Especially when considering 401 or Gardner traffic, it's much more convenient to get to the Falls, Buffalo for shopping or airport, Detroit, etc.
- With the more populous cities in the west, it means more economic activity (Hamilton, Niagara, KWC, Guelph, London, Windsor, US rust belt). People or companies making big money from this trade will tend to locate in the western reaches of the GTA.
- Shopping. Toronto Outlets in Halton Hills, Square One in Sauga, Bramalea City Centre, Vaughan Mills, Sherway in Etobicoke, etc. While the only ones I can think of in the east that come close in size are Scarboro Town and Pickering and I guess Fairview. Ikea is in Vaughan, Etobicoke and Burlington, with one NE of downtown in North York.
- Skiing. Slight advantage in the west with the escarpment being there. More ski resorts I'm pretty sure. And a more convenient drive to Blue Mtn. (don't have to spend as much time on the 401 if at all).


The east has:

- Mosport for racing events and former home of the Canadian GP
- Zoo plus a couple of smaller petting zoos
- Science Centre
- Pan Am swimming facilities in Scarboro and I believe Markham
- Woodbine beach is the most popular beach. Burlington beach on the western fringes of GTA is not as nice.
- Cherry Beach and Tommy Thompson I'd say are better than any equivalent in the west end for what they are.
- The Docks
- Scarboro Bluffs
- East end is closer to the big, clear water lakes in cottage country for boating and fishing. Those being in the Kawarthas, Haliburton and certain areas of Muskoka.
- East end is closer to Ottawa and Montreal but still many hours drive. But at least east enders don't have to drive all the way across the 401 at the beginning of their journey.
- Distillery District is kind of east end, though it's not on the east side of the Don.

[Docere]

Are you using Yonge as your boundary?

[Docere]

Most Ontario and Canadian cities seem to have an east/west split. Toronto has a more complex social geography than most.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by megadude

- Many more indoor and outdoor go kart tracks in the west

Cool. I had no idea.

- East end is closer to the big, clear water lakes in cottage country for boat and fishing. Those being in the Kawarthas and Muskoka.

The eastern GTA really has the advantage in terms of access to Muskoka given that most take the 400 to get there!

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

Are you using Yonge as your boundary?

For some things it was like a gut feeling of what feels east. So in that sense it could be just east of Yonge if it's farther up north in the city. But not explicitly Yonge.

For most I was trying the to stick to the DVP as the boundary. But when I say Distillery District for instance, it's still quite walkable from downtown and not past the DVP, but it's more easily accessed by people from the east of DVP than people west of Bathurst. So it kind of feels east endish. My cousin lives in Leslieville and Distillery is pretty convenient for him.

[Docere]

There's long been a westward bias to growth in the GTA.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

There's long been a westward bias to growth in the GTA.

A big part of that I'm sure is due to YYZ being there so industry would have built around it. Plus closer access to US. Chrysler set up in Brampton and Ford set up in Oakville. Though I do wonder how GM settled on Oshawa. Not sure they'd make that decision today given the traffic situation.

But I do wonder why Durham region didn't get bigger. It's more affordable than west end, though not by a lot! And they've certainly had tonnes of space to expand. And the geography is pretty nice. It's still on the big lake and has the Oak Ridges Moraine.

But it's still up to the cities and province to mandate development. If there wasn't an appetite for it then they wouldn't allow all that urban sprawl. Caledon has resisted since forever because they want to keep that small town charm, but they have now been forced to by the province. Either that or your residents' tax bills will skyrocket. So Caledon chose Bolton since it's already the most suburban area. It costs a lot for services in Caledon since it's big in area but small in population. Their residents are all spread out.

But with the 412's completion and the 407's expansion, Durham should accelerate their growth. Brooklin subdivision in Whitby was built around 20 years ago. When you look at the map you wonder why it's the only one built along Hwy. 7. Well I guess that will change in the near future.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by megadude

Though I do wonder how GM settled on Oshawa.

The Oshawa-based McLaughlin Motor Company was bought out by GM.

[Docere]

The western GTA is more mixed: very working class in parts, but also has more affluence than the eastern GTA.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

The Oshawa-based McLaughlin Motor Company was bought out by GM.

Ah, makes sense.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

The western GTA is more mixed: very working class in parts, but also has more affluence than the eastern GTA.

Yup. Brampton, where I spent most of my life, is very working class. And so is Malton as it's the airport area.

The last two places I've lived are Burlington and Oakville. First one a condo and now in a semi close to Sheridan College, which is pretty much the most affordable area in Oakville. Almost anywhere else other than College Park Oakville or Brant Hills Burlington would be off limits for me in terms of buying a house. And it would have to be a semi at that. For family and work purposes, this is where we have to be.

Now that we're having this discussion, Oakville, Mississauga and Burlington have some gaudy mansions along the lake. Virtually the entire shore is lined with mansions, fancy neighbourhoods and both DT Burlington and DT Oakville.

Meanwhile, out east in Durham, and I hadn't thought of this until now, there's practically no mansions, the few neighbourhoods there are modest, there's a bunch of industry, and two nuke stations (Pickering and Darlington). Plus their DT's are along Hwy. 2 or the 401. However, east has a bunch of conservation area, while west has but a few parkettes along the water.

I guess money talks. Persuade the western towns to allow residential all along the lake. Green space be damned!

[megadude]

Another thing I find interesting, there are very few boat docks on Lake O for those mansions. I've taken my small boat out of the marinas and along the shore and noticed that no one had a boat. Must be some kind of law by the Ministry. No docks or no boats allowed. And I know much of that shoreline drops deep quickly, so it's not a shallow water thing. For those that do have docks, when I look at google maps, none of them have boats tied to them.

If I'm super rich and live on the water, I kind of want a boat launch in my backyard. I guess they have to settle for taking a drive to the marina.

There was a $65m mansion that went up for sale this year. Not even that has a dock.



(Photo: The Invidiata Team/REMAX)

[Docere]

Yeah, Durham never had lakefront "executive" suburbs akin to Port Credit and Oakville develop.

It's the only region in the GTA where middle incomes dominate and is more working class culturally than Halton. It seems to be home to a lot of tradespeople, transit workers, nurses etc.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yeah, Durham never had lakefront "executive" suburbs akin to Port Credit and Oakville develop.

It's the only region in the GTA where middle incomes dominate and is more working class culturally than Halton. It seems to be home to a lot of tradespeople, transit workers, nurses etc.

True. Which makes it more affordable. If I had no ties to the west end, and since I work centrally downtown, I would seriously consider buying a rural property north of 7. I like those houses with land, a long driveway and a bunch of trees. Or a house in a quint village type community. Rural setting but still close to the city.

Only a few years ago I could have gotten that in the Escarpment in Burlington, Milton or Caledon, but the timing wasn't right.

[Docere]

In terms of the old city, looking at the use of the terms "West End" and "East End" for businesses and institutions on Google maps:

Most West End" is located between Bathurst and High Park, south of Dupont

Nearly all "East End" is located south of Mortimer Ave. between the DVP and Victoria Park.

Amalgamation has little impact in terms of the use of the term, as people still can identify Etobicoke and Scarborough.