Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Makid]

Originally Posted by RC14

I believe there are long term plans to bring the green line down 5600 W to meet up with the existing Red line. Or something to that effect. Such an extension could create a "second spine."

I have been thinking about the rail line that runs through Kearns up to Magna. I wonder if that could be used for an LRT line or "light commuter rail" line like the one Hatman proposed going out to Tooele. We could either route the 5600 W transit line down that row to meet up with the existing red line or build a commuter rail line connecting the south valley airport, Kearns and Magna to Hatman's proposed westbound commuter rail line.

The long range plans have 5600 West having LRT from the existing Red Line at the South going North through the International Center and then connecting to the Green Line. It was supposed to be a connection through the Airport. It may still be possible but I don't recall seeing any plans for the line to continue West from the Airport.

Additionally, the 35M (3500 BRT) route has long term plans to be upgraded to Trax. It would be a continuation of the Green Line. It would go West, into Magna. Final end point was yet to be determined by the County/Township.

Because of the phased plan for 5600 W to go from Center Running BRT to Trax, it might be worth spending a bit extra to lay tracks during the construction of the BRT line and when ridership or density reaches a point that it can support Trax, it wouldn't be too much more to electrify the line and purchase the vehicles (which could come from the Stadler assembly plant right next to the line).

I do still think that a FrontRunner West line would be good along the West side of the SL Valley. It would require working with Rio Tinto to get the ROW for the route.

What is sad is that even a West Side Commuter Rail line would be about the same cost as the Sandy Branch LRT line that the State wants to do through the Prison Redevelopment area.

Other than Flavor of the day, I just can't see the justification of nearly $1.5 Billion on the Sandy Branch LRT when BRT can be done for less. If it is done as a Center Running loop between the nearby FrontRunner station and the planned Plurasight HQ station, with signal priority, the BRT line could be done for less than $300 Million. That would allow $1.2 Billion to be used for transit upgrades elsewhere.

[joscar]

Regarding the double tracking of the S-Line, a contractor has been selected. Grading is expected to begin in about two weeks, signal and track installation will occur in the fall, and revenue operation should start in January 2019.

rideuta.com/About-UTA/Active-Projects/S-Line-Double-Tracking-Project

[Hatman]

Thanks for the link. I'm a plan junkie, so I'll repost the pictures here:



While I am never against any double-tracking project or any increase in frequency, I still question the effectiveness of this project. For this amount of money UTA will only get another 1,500 feet of second track. There will be approximately 4,000 feet of single track on either end of the double-track. This line is extremely short. I think it would have been more effective to just double-track the whole thing all at once and run streetcars every 7.5 minutes; they already have 3 branded S-70 cars which is exactly enough for that kind of frequency (7.5 minutes being 2x the frequency of a single TRAX line, making transfers between TRAX and the S-Line extremely easy).
The track part of this project is pretty easy - two segments of 4,000 feet each in a ROW that's already built for it. Heck, on State Street the 2nd track is already in place! The electric catenary will also be really cheap, since the poles are already up and for the most part were clearly designed to support two tracks.
The expensive part would be the stations (or since this is a streetcar project, 'stops'). This project will add a second platform at 1 station. That will leave only two more stops that will eventually need a second platform (700 East and Sugarmont). State Street, 500 East, and Fairmont are already compatible with a second track, and Central Point will never need one.

So if they are serious about double-tracking the whole thing, the way they are going about it is the wrong way - it would be cheaper to do in one bigger project. But it looks like they are content to have it run at 15 minute frequencies for ever. What will they do when TRAX starts running 5 trains an hour (every 12 minutes) or even 6 (every 10 minutes)? Then the S-Line will need another upgrade, more service disruptions, and more politicking. I'm not trying to sound ungrateful - I'm glad the S-Line is getting some good attention - I just wish they could finish the line and move onto bigger projects.

[Hatman]

Since nobody asked, here's how three cars operating at 7.5 minute frequencies would work:

It takes 10 minutes to travel from one end of the line to the other. That makes 20 minutes total moving time for a complete round trip.

Since we have 3 cars on the line, with one leaving every 7.5 minutes, the total time a round trip can take is 3*7.5=22.5 minutes. This means that 2.5 minutes can be spent switching directions on both ends of the line, or 2.5 minutes/2 = 1.25 minutes on each end.

It would be difficult to have one operator turn a car around that quickly, you'd want to have a second operator jump into the car the second it reaches the end of line and activate the controls. This is how FrontRunner trains turn around so quickly - there is always an extra operator at the end of the line waiting to take the next train out.

For the S-Line, since it is so short, perhaps this could be done on one end of the line; have the extra operator wait at Central Pointe and have that layover last 30 seconds, then have the operator switch ends on their own at Sugarmont in the remaining 2 minutes. This way you would only need 4 operators to run the 3 cars, rather than needing 5 if operators were needed on both ends.

This goes to show what an advantage autonomous vehicles will bring to transit routes; once staffing concerns go away, layover times can become non-existent and trains/buses can run with ridiculously high frequencies. As it is right now, there are three S-70 cars branded to run on the S-Line and only two can be used at once. This means that on any given day there is one multi-million dollar vehicle sitting idly by at the Jordan River maintenance building, with nothing to do but depreciate in value.
Running three cars at once would allow for a fantastic level of service - but only if the route were to be double-tracked for its entire length.

[Liberty Wellsian]

I think the thing that gets overlooked about the S-line is pedestrian/bike traffic. I'm not sure that the S-line will ever be all that successful in terms of ridership but the overall project I think will be as more housing units come on line. I think that if we consider the whole of the diverted traffic/parking (not just those taking the streetcar) we would look more favorably on it.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

I'm not sure that the S-line will ever be all that successful in terms of ridership

It might do pretty well if Sugarhood redevelops into a lot of high-density housing. I could see a lot of downtown people wanting their condo/townhouse in "sugarhouse" but without the premium pricetag.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

The Sugarhouse line is a long term play. As South Lake's downtown is developed, Sugarhouse continues its build out and all the property along the line is developed, it will be a very nice line with a fair amount of use.

[Makid]

Final beams put in place at new Salt Lake City International Airport terminal

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/...rousel-4840875

Salt Lake City International Airport held a “topping out” ceremony Wednesday for its new terminal to celebrate the final beams placed there.

Such ceremonies can be traced to Scandinavian rites to place a tree atop a new building to appease the tree-dwelling spirits displaced during Construction.

The new $485 million terminal will cover 866,087 square feet. It used 11,000 tons of structural steel and 22 miles of steel piles. The building will include a 6.2 mile conveyor system for baggage.

The first phase of the terminal replacement project is scheduled to open in fall 2020, with an elevated roadway with one level for dropping off passengers and another for pick-ups. It will have a new parking garage with 3,600 stalls, and one central terminal to replace three existing ones.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

The primary TRAX proposals are the extension of the blue line to American Fork/Orem, and the extension of the Red Line to the new SLCC campus/proposed future mixed use and office area at roughly 14600 S. Herriman has the ROW for this already preserved within current and future developments. (Examples can be seen on Autumn crest blvd and through the Herriman City Center development) ...

Herriman Details: https://www.herriman.org/wp-document...nd_Use_Map.pdf

Riverton details: http://archive.sltrib.com/article.ph...73&itype=CMSID

When did they move the location of the SLCC campus? Just two years ago, this image was circulating with the SLCC campus located near 12000 S. It's disappointing that they moved the campus, because it would've worked better with TRAX near 12000 S. It seems weird that they moved the campus location from the north end of Herriman to the south end.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Stenar

When did they move the location of the SLCC campus? Just two years ago, this image was circulating with the SLCC campus located near 12000 S. It's disappointing that they moved the campus, because it would've worked better with TRAX near 12000 S. It seems weird that they moved the campus location from the north end of Herriman to the south end.

⬆️⬆️⬆️ THIS alternative works much better for the purpose of getting TRAX through the prison site, rather than realigning the blue line. Thanks for digging up the image.

I believe it had something to do with SLCC wanting more land for a larger campus, but Herriman couldn’t give it to them in that location. Also the fact that it was much closer to their existing Jordan campus. (Which will become their flagship location in the coming years). Herriman’s transportation master plans have a branch line continuing south to serve the campus and the southern portion of Herriman.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Makid

The stub in Herriman makes it difficult to use this unless there is just a route that goes between Fashion Place and Herriman making that section of the Red Line effectively 7 minute frequencies. Having the Herriman connection go further up the main line, at least to 2100 South while possible, could make connections more difficult without some additional track work along the main spine to support the additional load.

Perhaps the stub is the end of the red line and the new south valley line is a continuation of the 5600 west line? That would seem to make sense. Just thinking far out for potential route alignments.

[Hatman]

The old San Jose cars that have been parked just south of Murray Central Station are getting scrapped:



These cars were older and less popular with riders. They also had a longer wheelbase, meaning the caused more damage to the track in the tight curves downtown. UTA had bought these cars used from San Jose as an interim solution before the Frontlines 2015 project - and the new S70 cars that came with it - were secured. In order to buy these cars, UTA got a government grant stipulating that these cars would be in use for X number of years. Until that X number of years had been fulfilled, UTA had to keep these cars in 'serviceable condition.' So for the last few years, technically, these cars have been on 'standby,' waiting to go into service during large events when overcrowding could be an issue. It never was, and for all practical purposes these cars had been abandoned to thieves, vandals, and the homeless. Now the X years have apparently been fulfilled, and UTA is getting them off the property as fast as they can. Kind of a sad end for any train, but the backhoe comes for us all eventually.

[i-215]

That's really interesting. Thanks for the info.

Small vehicles, like automobiles, go to junkyard and eventually are crushed into a pile of cars and shipped for shredding and melting. Whereas commercial aircraft are shredded on site by a backhoe, and then shipped for further shredding and melting. I guess I sort of assumed that LRT cabins were more like autos than aircraft, but your picture proves me wrong.

[Makid]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/...highway-lanes/

New Utah Valley Express previews future Wasatch Front transit: $1 million buses designed to act like trains in exclusive highway lanes

[QUOTE]The sleek $1 million electric hybrid Utah Valley Express bus is designed to look and act more like a rail car. Its station platforms are even elevated like a train’s, so passengers will not walk up bus stairs.

It has its own exclusive highway lanes — akin to a train using unshared tracks — for half of its 10.5-mile route through Provo and Orem, and will have priority control at traffic signals to speed it along.

It is 60 feet long instead of 40 like most buses, with an accordionlike structure in its middle that allows it to bend around curves. Passengers buy tickets before they board. Bike racks are onboard, not outside. It has much more standing room.

And the new bus rapid transit (BRT) system is what much of future transit along the Wasatch Front may look like. Utah County legislators and city officials received a preview ride and tour on Wednesday, months before the new system is scheduled to open in August.

“We have about 200 miles of bus rapid transit in future plans,” says Steve Meyer, interim executive director of the Utah Transit Authority. That includes BRTs through Davis County to Salt Lake City, from downtown Ogden to Weber State University and from West Valley City through Taylorsville to Murray.

UTA has operated a partial BRT in West Valley City for years: the MAX bus on 3500 South. But it has only one mile of exclusive lanes and uses shorter buses.

“So for purists,” Meyer said, the new Utah Valley Express “is really our first true BRT line.”

While it is scheduled to begin service in August, operators will begin on-the-street training next week — while final construction on the line continues.

“It’s really a cost-effective option for communities that just don’t meet the ridership threshold for rail,” Meyer said, noting a BRT costs a fraction of a TRAX light rail line.

For example, transit work on the Provo-Orem line cost about $150 million out of a $200 million total price tag, with the rest for additional highway enhancements and bridge replacements made at the same time by the Utah Department of Transportation.

In contrast, the mid-Jordan extension of TRAX on what is now part of its Red Line cost $535 million when it was completed in 2011 to cover an almost identical distance./QUOTE]

But Meyer is optimistic that ridership will be solid, in part because of a new program by UVU and BYU to provide transit passes to their students, faculty and staff — and, in some cases, family members. It is expected to provide up to 100,000 passes a year.

Also, he said UTA worked with the LDS Church on a pass program for its missionaries to use buses and rail to travel from the faith’s Provo training center to the Salt Lake City International Airport.

“If you had to use a coin slot or a credit card every time you use your car, that would be a barrier to entry. We’re going to eliminate that. Students, faculty and staff will have a pass in their pocket they simply can tap on,” he said.

“It’s going to be a big deal. We’re excited to see how many people will take advantage of it,” and how well the new BRT works as the transit agency eyes building them elsewhere, he said.

The cost comparison between the lines is nice but they aren't fully compatible. The Jordan Line is in a dedicated ROW, for its entire length. It is possible to extrapolate that the UVX could be upgraded to be in a dedicated ROW for its length for roughly double its cost ($300 Million) moving it closer to the $535 Million of the Jordan Line.

One cost that the Jordan Line has that UVX doesn't that also makes the comparison difficult is that UVX doesn't include land purchased and then built as Park and Rides.

Overall though, BRT, if it is built right (Center running, 2 lanes and dedicated ROW for its entire length and Signal priority), it can be cheaper to build that LRT. Once density and ridership hits preset thresholds, the ROW can be upgraded as it is already in place. The BRT just moves to the outside during construction.

This allows the buses to be in continued use and when the line is upgraded, the buses can move to the next project.

With roughly 200 miles of BRT projects in the works for the Wasatch Front, I hope UVX is a success, not just for the other projects but for UVX to be upgraded to a fully separated ROW.

Only a few months to go before it opens.

[i-215]

Only a few months to go before it opens.

Personally, I'm sort of bummed out. I'm moving out of Utah County in July/August (after living here for 12 years) and have patiently waited for the BRT line and for a Trader Joe's.

Both open shortly after I move.

[Hatman]

Poor timing like this seems to be one of the fundamental rules of the universe.

Hopefully you're not moving far away. Your insight in this forum is greatly appreciated!

[asies1981]

Salt Lake City Council is considering adding three new high-frequency bus routes. I'm glad they are focusing on east-to-west routes. Most of the high-frequency routes are north-to-south.

[Hatman]

Higher frequency is great. Even if it isn't possible to increase service all day long, it would be helpful to increase frequencies during peak hours. Why have 15 minute service all day, when the times it is really useful is during the rushes? I honestly wouldn't mind 20 minute service during non-peak hours so long as during the peak hours buses came every 5-10 minutes. That way most people who ride the bus would not need to worry about schedules or missing the bus - there would always be another one soon. If UTA can relieve that kind of stress in its riders, I believe ridership will increase.

[Hatman]

Work on the S-Line second track began yesterday:



This is the crossing at 300 East. I ride my bike through here every day as part of my commute, so you can expect fairly regular updates from me on this project.

As much as I dislike what this project stands for - an entrenchment of 15 minute service rather than a full double-track system - it sure does feel nice to have a rail transit project under construction again. The last time a rail project was under construction was when the S-Line originally opened, in December 2013. That's nearly 5 years, and ties for the previous longest gap in UTA rail expansion, which was between 2003 (University Medical TRAX extension) and the 2008 Intermodal Hub TRAX extension/FrontRunner project. Hopefully we won't have to wait this long again for other needed projects (like the 4th South line...)

[Makid]

Wow, I didn't realize it had been that long. I know that this project will wrap up later this year and all LRT trainsets will run at 15 minute minimum frequencies. That will help with scheduling.

While I would like to see the S-Line fully doubled tracked, I think that at this point, it should be up to Salt Lake City and South Salt Lake together to come up with the funds to double track the remainder. I am curious though, I know that Salt Lake has expressed they would provide funds or has outright provided funds (matching) in the event of receiving Tiger grants for extending the S-Line to the Plaza (Doubled Tracked) and this would have allowed double tracking some of the existing line. Couldn't some of the funds Salt Lake provided go to double tracking the existing line within Salt Lake City?

The next upgrades for scheduling purposes needs to be FrontRunner. Either fully double tracking or selectively double tracking to allow for 15 minute frequencies. It needs to be enough double tracking to get around the delays that were added by the PTC (Positive Train Controls) that were required by the FTA. Side question, does anyone know if the S-Line or Trax requires the PTC's?

Other than FrontRunner for scheduling. We know that the Blue Line is heading to Utah County (Lehi/American Fork) and will most likely starting in the next 2 years. Red line probably 3 to 4 years.

Downtown Streetcar is Probably within the next 3 to 5 years. I would expect Granary and S-Line extension (full double track) in 5-7 years.

I am sure that in this time we will also have a lot of BRT lines built as well. I am hoping for 100 miles of dedicated lanes worth in 10 years.