Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Paniolo Man]

Assuming I understand this correctly this bill proposes to refine UDOT's control over state-funded transit projects and establishes their responsibility to study and seek funding for transit projects. Hopefully this means UDOT will actually seek funding for transit instead of just administering funds allocated for transit.

[Utahn]

Senate President Stuart Adams mentioned Frontrunner in his opening remarks for the legislative session. It's sure to take more time to make this happen, but great to see these ideas from the highest levels of the state legislature.

To help Utah cope with the increasing pressure of a growing population, Adams wants to reintroduce state assistance for first-time home buyers and boost public transit.

“It is time we fix FrontRunner,” Adams said, adding that he would like to eliminate at-grade crossings and double-track the Wasatch Front commuter train so that it can reach speeds of 150 miles per hour.

“Utah’s public transportation needs to be competitive with driving an automobile,” Adams said. “We do not have room in Farmington or at the Point of the Mountain for another freeway. A functional, efficient FrontRunner is the answer.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...ource=hs_email

[RC14]

^
That's encouraging. Hopefully he is aware of the Rio Grande plan.

[bob rulz]

150mph? Is it even possible to convert FrontRunner to legitimate high-speed rail?

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Every time I am at the 6th west crossing I see this happen. We aren't going to make people less stupid, burying the rails is the next best thing.

I used to live in the Bridges apartments on the left side of the picture. Honestly I don't blame people for making dangerous crossings there. If you don't, there's a chance you could get stuck waiting for a stopped train for a half-hour.

Also if I remember correctly, the plan doesn't propose burying this section of rails, since it's a Rio Grande main line that sees dozens of trains every day. Instead it proposes a pedestrian bridge over top.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

150mph? Is it even possible to convert FrontRunner to legitimate high-speed rail?

It would be easier to go to 110MPH with the existing track bed. 150MPH would require a new track bed.

But if they want to remove all grade crossings, this would allow for upgrading the track bed to support 150mph. I don't think the speeds would ever to 120MPH though due to station spacing. I don't think 150MPH is doable in the current FrontRunner length unless there are express trains and the infrastructure to support them.

[Hatman]

The fastest commuter train in the USA is the MARC Penn line between Washington DC and Baltimore, which shares tracks with Amtrak's NEC with a top speed of 125mph. Station spacing is about 5 miles on average (compared to Frontrunner's 5.5 mile average), so supposing he is serious about 1) adding a 2nd track and 2) running electric trains (overhead catenary, not batteries) it is certainly feasible that Frontrunner could match that speed.
Going faster than that is probably not worth it, as you start to get into diminishing returns pretty quickly once you get past 110mph.

As for grade separation, I need to point out that the Rio Grande Plan eliminates 4 frontrunner crossings, including the 600 west crossing pictured earlier in this thread (the Union Pacific tracks would remain in place, for now). Since there are 60 grade crossings between Provo and Ogden, 4 crossings represent 6.7% of the problem, which is pretty good for a single project.

This is to say that the Rio Grande Plan makes financial sense as a transit plan, and it also makes financial sense as a redevelopment scheme. Hopefully these two goals can meet in the middle and create something amazing, but one or the other alone would justify the costs.

[Paniolo Man]

Idaho legislature discuss past, present, future of rail transportation in Idaho

Here's a little excerpt.

Jay Fox, the executive director of the Utah Transit Authority, spoke on the benefits and statistics of Utah’s passenger train in accordance with what may come to Idaho. Fox said these trains give passengers the opportunity to become mobile but still be able to do things they cannot do while driving, such as work or a little extra sleep.

Fox said there also is a great economic return, the distribution of agricultural goods can increase, and there is an expansion of jobs.

“It’s good for economies, good for business, and good for people,” Fox told the forum.

Sounds like UTA's support goes a little further than a logo on a form.

[Hatman]

Important update! Our public event has changed venues! Please join us at 7:00pm on January 26th at the Woodbine Food Hall on 545 West 700 South!

• Video Link

[Paniolo Man]

UTA responded to my pestering about Frontrunner Forward.

Thank you for contacting us regarding work on FrontRunner Forward. The Utah Department of Transportation has primary responsibility for this project. They have some information posted on their website, and any specific questions you have about the project should be directed to them.

At some point another website was created, likely for future public input purposes. Seems like UTA has pretty much handed off the project to UDOT.

UDOT has already held a public comment period for some work in Clearfield. They estimate that work would occur in 2025 so it's safe to assume that is when UDOT anticipates work on Frontrunner Forward to start.

[New_Future_Mayor]

Great presentation last week regarding Bury the Rails. It was nice to meet a few of you there.

I do think that with air quality issues, The Olympics, and the most important aspect to the legislature to get momentum to pull the trigger on The Rio Grande Plan is development/economic opportunities on the newly available land. The State loves new $$ coming into its coffers. I think with the Olympics that there could be an even greater opportunity for federal infrastructure funds in order to put the USA's best foot forward.

P.S. It's good to be back on the forum again. For my own sanity I will try to not go several years between posts again.

[Paniolo Man]

UDOT responded pretty quick when I requested info.

UDOT is continuing to pursue a 9-segment strategic double-tracking which will allow trains to run every 15 minutes. They anticipate the project opening in 2029 if things go smoothly. The cost of the 9-segment project is 1 Billion Dollars, UDOT is seeking a federal grant to cover the remaining cost.

[fidel_cashflo]

$1 Billion seems crazy steep for this no? Is it land acquisition?

UTA added the 2 miles of double track at Vineyard for $9 million (including the station improvements).

[Old&New]

Just brainstorming future transit lines again:

Two new lines in orange and magenta:


Mass transit tunnel (probably a continuation of the orange and magenta lines) connecting three canyons and most resorts:

Close up of mass transit line after tunnel:

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by New_Future_Mayor

Great presentation last week regarding Bury the Rails. It was nice to meet a few of you there.

I had no idea we had such a distinguished guest in our midst!

I do think that with air quality issues, The Olympics, and the most important aspect to the legislature to get momentum to pull the trigger on The Rio Grande Plan is development/economic opportunities on the newly available land. The State loves new $$ coming into its coffers. I think with the Olympics that there could be an even greater opportunity for federal infrastructure funds in order to put the USA's best foot forward.

The potential boost of the Olympics cannot be overstated. A project as big as the Rio Grande Plan might otherwise languish for years in feasibility studies and reviews... but with the city scheduled to be in the world's spotlight again, the usual decision makers will have a major reason to act more decisively. Obviously there will still be some red tape, but perhaps there will be federal assistance in getting through the bureaucratic hurdles. From an engineering point of view, there is absolutely no reason why this project couldn't be finished by even 2030

P.S. It's good to be back on the forum again. For my own sanity I will try to not go several years between posts again.

That would be nice!

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

UDOT responded pretty quick when I requested info.

UDOT is continuing to pursue a 9-segment strategic double-tracking which will allow trains to run every 15 minutes. They anticipate the project opening in 2029 if things go smoothly. The cost of the 9-segment project is 1 Billion Dollars, UDOT is seeking a federal grant to cover the remaining costs

That map isn't quite right on the south end. Even with all the new second track, this "double track" project is not actually adding any true double track. No new station pair is getting connected by a second continuous track between them. Instead, this is a siding lengthening project. Trains will still have to wait for each other between every station, and the same reliability problems will still cascade through the entire length of the line. It may even get worse when twice as many trains are in service.

But still, it is progress. 15 minute service is better than 30 minutes, even if it makes train speeds slower overall. UTA/UDOT were only given a fixed amount of money, and had to sprinkle it evenly up and down the corridor. This isn't the way I would have preferred to expand service, but it is what it is.

With improvements set to be finished in 2029, has there been any mention of increasing train lengths to 4 cars? 3 is already pretty squishy on some departures, and I think it will probably only get worse (or rather, better!) over 6 years.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Close up of mass transit line after tunnel:

I like this routing. It would be amazing to catch a train from the Old Town Transit Center

[Paniolo Man]

300N pedestrian bridge.





Central Garage

[Paniolo Man]

In their funding request from the legislature, UDOT mentioned that they are conducting their own analysis of transit for The Point. This may be old news but this is the first official mention I have seen that LRT is back on the table.

[Utahn]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

In their funding request from the legislature, UDOT mentioned that they are conducting their own analysis of transit for The Point. This may be old news but this is the first official mention I have seen that LRT is back on the table.

Here's a link to the UDOT site which gives more info on the study.

https://udotinput.utah.gov/pointtransit#0

The revised study was result of a bill passed last question that directed UDOT to conduct a revised alternatives analysis of the options and prepare an environmental assessment based on the analysis.