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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2018, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by balletomane View Post

Ottawa
1901 59,928
1911 87,062
1921 107,843
1931 126,872
1941 154,951
1951 202,045
1961 268,206
1971 302,341
1981 295,163
1991 313,987
2001 337,031
2011 337,761
2016 341,998
Quite proud of my off-the-cuff estimate above!
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2018, 8:09 PM
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I'm not sure about the others but in the Halifax case these numbers are a little strange because they include past changes in boundaries but not the change in 1996. I don't think the city boundaries included all of the peninsula until the 1951 census. The municipal boundaries grew to encompass that area around the 1940's, and then again in the 1960's there was expansion to include more areas of mainland Halifax (so the difference between 1961-1971 and 1971-1981 is less significant than it appears).

Wikipedia has old census numbers for something more consistently resembling the current CMA (CMA in the past or Halifax County plus cities/towns). They look like this:

Code:
1851	39,914	—    
1861	49,021	+22.8%
1871	56,963	+16.2%
1881	67,917	+19.2%
1891	71,358	+5.1%
1901	74,662	+4.6%
1911	80,257	+7.5%
1921	97,228	+21.1%
1931	100,204	+3.1%
1941	122,656	+22.4%
1951	162,217	+32.3%
1961	225,723	+39.1%
1971	261,461	+15.8%
1981	288,126	+10.2%
1991	332,518	+15.4%
2001	359,111	+8.0%
2011	390,096	+8.6%
2016	403,131	+3.3%
Yes, I guess Halifax underwent two "mega amalgamations", the first being in 1962. My numbers for Halifax up to 1961 are technically only for the peninsula, which has only about 60,000 residents now.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2018, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by balletomane View Post
Yes, I guess Halifax underwent two "mega amalgamations", the first being in 1962. My numbers for Halifax up to 1961 are technically only for the peninsula, which has only about 60,000 residents now.
There was another merger in 1959 which was the creation of the municipality of the County of Halifax. In 1995 there weren't many municipalities in the Halifax area. I think it was just Halifax, Dartmouth, Bedford, and the county. By the 1960's and 70's, the county included some built up areas like Sackville that could have been administered as independent cities. This made amalgamation in 1996 a lot simpler.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 1:37 AM
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Port Arthur and Fort William became Thunder Bay in 1970.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 2:35 AM
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Originally Posted by balletomane View Post
Demographics of former cities in Canada that have undergone "mega amalgamations", Toronto (1998), Montreal (2002/06), Ottawa (2001), Winnipeg (1972), Hamilton (2001) and Halifax (1996).

Old Toronto

1971 712,786
1981 599,712
...
2016 797,642

Montreal
1971 1,214,351
1981 980,354
It's interesting that the 1971 census was the year in which the old city of Toronto and Montreal reached their pre-millennial population peak. This is much later than in other developed countries (not just the US, but European cities), where pre-war cities peaked in population in the 1950s.

It seems about right that pre-war cities emptied out about 1/4-1/6 of their population as living standards improved, and as families grew smaller. Paris is down to about 2.2M, compared to its 2.9M peak.

This is quite a bit of a different phenomenon from places like St. Louis and Detroit hemhorrhaging 2/3 of their population due to white flight and deindustrialization, or Venice losing 3/4 of its population as it turned from a living city into a museum.

Also, it's staggering that the City of Toronto regained 200,000 people in the latest boom. It's one thing to pave over farmland to build a city like Milton in 10 years, but it's quite another to jam people into an already dense city.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
It seems about right that pre-war cities emptied out about 1/4-1/6 of their population as living standards improved, and as families grew smaller. Paris is down to about 2.2M, compared to its 2.9M peak.

This is quite a bit of a different phenomenon from places like St. Louis and Detroit hemhorrhaging 2/3 of their population due to white flight and deindustrialization, or Venice losing 3/4 of its population as it turned from a living city into a museum.
In the case of Toronto the old city was a small portion of the metro area even in 1951. Combine that with encouragement of separated uses and "CBD"-style development in postwar planning and you have a recipe for a significant shift from residential to other uses in the old city.

Instead of looking at population it would be interesting to see statistics about the amount of development. The most common is the dwelling count. I would guess that the dwelling count in Detroit in 1951 was higher than it is today, while the dwelling count within the boundaries of the old city of Toronto has gone up a lot (much more than the population total would suggest). To get a complete picture you would also need to consider other types of developments, like office space. Physically it is clear that most Canadian city cores are far more built up than in 1951, even though the core populations haven't gone up much.

Something I'm not sure of is how students tend to declare their primary residents in the census. When they move out of their parents' place and into residences, do they still usually declare that they live in the old place? I have seen a lot of population density maps that show ~0 population in student residences, like they would in office buildings. The same thing may be going on in off-campus student apartments.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2018, 6:37 AM
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2016 Population of former municipalities in current "megacities", I'll try to find for Ottawa and Halifax as well.

Toronto 797,642
North York 672,955
Scarborough 632,098
Etobicoke 365,143
York 145,662
East York 118,071
Total 2,731,571

Montreal 1,098,296
Saint Laurent 98,828
Montreal North 84,234
Saint Leonard 78,305
LaSalle 76,853
Pierrefonds - Roxboro 69,297
Verdun 69,229
Lachine 44,489
Anjou 42,796
Outremont 23,954
L'Ile Bizard - Saint Genvieve 18,413
Total 1,704,694

Winnipeg 218,525
Fort Garry 76,205
St. Vital 69,027
St. James - Assiniboia 63,061
St. Boniface 59,823
North Kildonan 48,987
Old Kildonan 44,420
Transcona 32,352
East Kildonan 26,623
Charleswood 25,347
West Kildonan 22,391
Tuxedo 18,483
Total 705,244

Hamilton 330,095
Stoney Creek 69,475
Flamborough 42,655
Ancaster 40,560
Glanbrook 29,860
Dundas 24,285
Total 536,930
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2018, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Something I'm not sure of is how students tend to declare their primary residents in the census. When they move out of their parents' place and into residences, do they still usually declare that they live in the old place? I have seen a lot of population density maps that show ~0 population in student residences, like they would in office buildings. The same thing may be going on in off-campus student apartments.
Students who leave home during the school year but return to their parents during the summer are counted as living at their parents place.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Galt, Preston, and Hespler where all smaller cities of about 15,000 a piece until they merged to become Cambridge.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 3:25 PM
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The Calgary communities of Bowness, Montgomery, and Forest Lawn / Albert Park were towns briefly before being amalgamated into the city in the 1960s.
Of course Strathcona, now known as "Old Strathcona", south across the valley from downtown Edmonton was a city before being amalgamated with Edmonton in the 19-teens.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balletomane View Post
Demographics of former cities in Canada that have undergone "mega amalgamations", Toronto (1998), Montreal (2002/06), Ottawa (2001), Winnipeg (1972), Hamilton (2001) and Halifax (1996).

Old Toronto
1901 208,040
1911 381,383
1921 521,893
1931 631,207
1941 667,567
1951 675,754
1961 672,407
1971 712,786
1981 599,712
1991 635,395
2001 676,352
2011 736,775
2016 797,642

Montreal
1901 267,730
1911 490,504
1921 618,506
1931 818,517
1941 903,007
1951 1,021,520
1961 1,191,062
1971 1,214,351
1981 980,354
1991 1,017,666
2001 1,039,534
2011 1,058,194
2016 1,098,296

Ottawa
1901 59,928
1911 87,062
1921 107,843
1931 126,872
1941 154,951
1951 202,045
1961 268,206
1971 302,341
1981 295,163
1991 313,987
2001 337,031
2011 337,761
2016 341,998

Winnipeg
1901 42,340
1911 136,035
1921 179,097
1931 218,785
1941 221,960
1951 235,710
1961 265,429
1971 246,246 (245,637)
1981 207,886 (200,002)
1991 212,671 (196,384)
2001 206,898 (189,801)
2011 211,236 (193,925)
2016 218,525 (200,188)

Hamilton
1901 52,634
1911 81,960
1921 114,151
1931 155,547
1941 166,337
1951 208,321
1961 273,991
1971 309,173
1981 306,434
1991 318,499
2001 331,121
2011 330,480
2016 330,095

Halifax
1901 40,832
1911 46,619
1921 58,372
1931 59,275
1941 70,488
1951 85,589
1961 92,511
1971 122,035
1981 114,594
1991 114,455
2001 119,292
2011 130,130
2016 132,943
Where did you get these numbers from?
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:20 PM
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I remember the days when Hamilton was referred to as Ontario's second largest city.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Students who leave home during the school year but return to their parents during the summer are counted as living at their parents place.
This could have a pretty big demographic impact on a few cities.

In Halifax for example there are around 60,000 people living on the peninsula. There are around 30,000 students (and 100,000 workers, constant visitors, etc.). The population number alone doesn't account for how busy the area is.

Downtown Toronto and Montreal similarly have a big concentration of post-secondary students. Vancouver's universities are more spread out but still, there could be parts of town that appear to have lower densities than they really do because they are full of students.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by goldeneyed View Post
Where did you get these numbers from?
Toronto, Ottawa and Halifax from Wikipedia and Montreal a combination of Wikipedia and subtracting former municipalities now part of Montreal from the total population. Wards 1 to 8 of Hamilton correspond with the former city boundaries and their stats are available on the city website. I guess since Winnipeg's amalgamation took place a few decades before the other cities there is much less information about the former municipalities online. I had to go through census archives and add census tracts together to piece together the former municipalities (all census tracts in Winnipeg follow the former city boundaries), this took quite some time...
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 7:25 PM
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The Calgary communities of Bowness, Montgomery, and Forest Lawn / Albert Park were towns briefly before being amalgamated into the city in the 1960s.
Of course Strathcona, now known as "Old Strathcona", south across the valley from downtown Edmonton was a city before being amalgamated with Edmonton in the 19-teens.
Strathcona is the most famous example. But Jasper Place, Beverly, Calder, North Edmonton (Fort Road/Belvedere area), and Ellerslie were also independent municipalities at one point. What is now Mill Woods was also a Native-Metis reserve until the early 20th century.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 9:15 PM
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This could have a pretty big demographic impact on a few cities.

In Halifax for example there are around 60,000 people living on the peninsula. There are around 30,000 students (and 100,000 workers, constant visitors, etc.). The population number alone doesn't account for how busy the area is.

Downtown Toronto and Montreal similarly have a big concentration of post-secondary students. Vancouver's universities are more spread out but still, there could be parts of town that appear to have lower densities than they really do because they are full of students.
Kingston has a massive demographic impact from this. The city's population is 124,000 in the census, but if students who live here during the academic year only were counted, the number would be 135,000, a difference of almost 10%. Those 11,000 extra people pretty much live entirely in the downtown core of the city.

This created political controversy the last time the city drew its ward boundaries, as the city initially used only the census data in the redistribution resulting in the suburbs gaining one extra council seat at the expense of the downtown area. The student council and downtown community groups took the city to court over it, who ruled that even though students are not enumerated in the census, because they use city services and pay municipal taxes, they are entitled to representation, and ordered the city to factor in the extra 11,000 people when drawing ward borders. This allowed the downtown area to keep its council seats.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 1:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
The Calgary communities of Bowness, Montgomery, and Forest Lawn / Albert Park were towns briefly before being amalgamated into the city in the 1960s.
Of course Strathcona, now known as "Old Strathcona", south across the valley from downtown Edmonton was a city before being amalgamated with Edmonton in the 19-teens.
Midnapore and Shepard are two more that were amalgamated into Calgary.

The days of Calgary amalgamating any more municipalties are probably done as anything that is now on Calgary's door steps is too large and independent to get amalgamated unless forced to do so by the province. Airdrie, Cochrane, Chestermere and Okotoks would be the communities nearest to Calgary at risk of forced amalgamation. I suppose Conrich and Dewinton fall into this category as well.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Kingston has a massive demographic impact from this. The city's population is 124,000 in the census, but if students who live here during the academic year only were counted, the number would be 135,000, a difference of almost 10%. Those 11,000 extra people pretty much live entirely in the downtown core of the city.

This created political controversy the last time the city drew its ward boundaries, as the city initially used only the census data in the redistribution resulting in the suburbs gaining one extra council seat at the expense of the downtown area. The student council and downtown community groups took the city to court over it, who ruled that even though students are not enumerated in the census, because they use city services and pay municipal taxes, they are entitled to representation, and ordered the city to factor in the extra 11,000 people when drawing ward borders. This allowed the downtown area to keep its council seats.
The situation is similar in Lethbridge. The city's official population is expected to top 100,000 (just barely) this year, but if out-of-town students from the U of L and LC are included it would be approximately 110,000. Not a huge absolute figure, but fairly large proportionately.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 9:38 PM
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Midnapore and Shepard are two more that were amalgamated into Calgary.

The days of Calgary amalgamating any more municipalties are probably done as anything that is now on Calgary's door steps is too large and independent to get amalgamated unless forced to do so by the province. Airdrie, Cochrane, Chestermere and Okotoks would be the communities nearest to Calgary at risk of forced amalgamation. I suppose Conrich and Dewinton fall into this category as well.
My understanding is most former municipalities volunteered to join since they were paying for Calgary-based services or utilities anyway. I expect Conrich an DeWinton will join, unsure about Chestermere. Airdrie, Cochrane and Okotoks are either already too big or certainly will be once Calgary reaches them. I figure any municipality which is already a city or qualifies to be a city and has it's own internal community divisions will stay separate.
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