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  #2441  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 3:01 PM
RavioliAficionado RavioliAficionado is offline
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
all you need to know re the new lga terminal b:
Given the absurd costs to build infrastructure in NYC I wish they could just keep everything as utilitarian as possible. Trying to pretty this stuff up is just a waste of money.
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  #2442  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 3:12 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ agreed but the airlines have a big hand in funding the lga do-over, so thats probably why.

last i heard lga is ahead of schedule and under budget.

so they say.
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  #2443  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 3:18 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ agreed but the airlines have a big hand in funding the lga do-over, so thats probably why.

last i heard lga is ahead of schedule and under budget.

so they say.
Except for the LGA Airtrain which is like 300% over already and they're not done designing it. It will probably end up costing $4B and a $20 ticket for a ride in the wrong direction.
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  #2444  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 3:31 PM
RavioliAficionado RavioliAficionado is offline
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Except for the LGA Airtrain which is like 300% over already and they're not done designing it. It will probably end up costing $4B and a $20 ticket for a ride in the wrong direction.
And then nobody will even use it because it's literally slower than the existing option for 95% of people.
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  #2445  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 3:40 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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yeah the air train fiasco.

i should have added air train aside, right?

that doesnt affect the lga rebuild or flights though.

its kind of a sad, side project.

sad and overly expensive, like all transit work in the region.
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  #2446  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 8:42 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by RavioliAficionado View Post
Given the absurd costs to build infrastructure in NYC I wish they could just keep everything as utilitarian as possible. Trying to pretty this stuff up is just a waste of money.
No. US is already full of ugly, need more pretty. Land in Frankfurt and everything is very nice and pretty, and then land in Newark or LGA and what do you see? Utilitarian infrastructure, outdated highways and bridges, crap terminals. Beauty is important whether you like it or not. Efficiency leads to a dull environment. We don't want to look like trash and have people viewing America in a bad light. Image is important.

Let's not fall further behind the rest of the developed world in looks. Most of Urban America is ugly enough because philistines and bean counters have built it for efficiency rather than charm. Our CBD's empty at 5 in most cities because they are so dull and full of "corporate charm".


Sorry, but a good looking airport is a big deal for NYC and its reputation as a global world city. It doesn't have to be a Shanghi or HK, but it has to be reasonably nice. And this terminal isn't even that beautiful, it's an OK terminal in comparison to European and Asian airports. It doesn't approach the ostentatious stuff that has been built. From a foreign perspective, it's hardly a "pretty airport". Do yo ureally want to make it some kind of greyhound terminal. This is NYC, not podunkville.

Last edited by aquablue; Sep 22, 2019 at 9:38 PM.
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  #2447  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 9:19 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by RavioliAficionado View Post
And then nobody will even use it because it's literally slower than the existing option for 95% of people.
It's going to be used, it's a train and nobody wants to sit in unreliable uber or messy busses. Trains will always attract people over busses and traffic jams as busses carry a stigma and no one wants to be delayed due to a backup. Slower be damned, it's going to be used and people will overlook such details for comfort and reliability.

Last edited by aquablue; Sep 22, 2019 at 9:36 PM.
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  #2448  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 9:31 PM
RavioliAficionado RavioliAficionado is offline
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
No. US is already full of ugly, need more pretty. Land in Frankfurt and everything is very nice and pretty, and then land in Newark or LGA and what do you see? Utilitarian infrastructure, outdated highways and bridges, crap terminals. Beauty is important whether you like it or not. Efficiency leads to a dull environment. We don't want to look like trash and have people viewing America in a bad light. Image is important.

Let's not fall further behind the rest of the developed world in looks. Urban America is ugly enough because philistines and bean counters have built it for efficiency rather than charm. Sorry, but a good looking airport is a big deal for NYC and its reputation as a global world city. It doesn't have to be a Shanghi or HK, but it has to be reasonably nice. And this terminal isn't even that beautiful, it's an OK terminal in comparison to European beauties and Asian palaces. Do yo ureally want to make it some kind of greyhound terminal. This is NYC, not podunkville.
LGA and Newark are usually dead last in the entire US when it comes to things like on-time departures. They're the least utilitarian airports in the country because the entire utility of an airport is getting you on in the air on schedule. These airports aren't just ugly.. they're dysfunctional. Would it be nice if they were more beautiful? Of course. But so long as NYC infrastructure costs 10x as much as the rest of the developed world we're stuck with a reality where every Billion dollars wasted on form is a Billion that can't be spent on function. At the end of the day this is where every discussion on NYC infrastructure must ultimately lead.. to the importance of breaking the corrupt unions and their political cronies.
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  #2449  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 9:38 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ except air train aside, cost isnt an issue for taxpayers for lga. its mostly being rebuilt privately.

why do you think construction is ahead of schedule?

so if the air lines want it to look nice, let them make it nice.


The new LaGuardia's $8 billion price tag is being funded by both private and public dollars, with 75 percent coming from private sources, according to Cuomo. Aug 12, 2019
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  #2450  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 9:43 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by RavioliAficionado View Post
LGA and Newark are usually dead last in the entire US when it comes to things like on-time departures. They're the least utilitarian airports in the country because the entire utility of an airport is getting you on in the air on schedule. These airports aren't just ugly.. they're dysfunctional. Would it be nice if they were more beautiful? Of course. But so long as NYC infrastructure costs 10x as much as the rest of the developed world we're stuck with a reality where every Billion dollars wasted on form is a Billion that can't be spent on function. At the end of the day this is where every discussion on NYC infrastructure must ultimately lead.. to the importance of breaking the corrupt unions and their political cronies.
That's because the airspace is badly designed and overcrowded. LGA should have been shut down years ago to allow proper traffic routings and for JFK to be fully utilized. Right now JFK is only half utilized due to LGA. An expanded JFK and EWR would have allowed far better airspace utilization and on time flights if LGA was out of the picture. However, short sighted planners in the region have messed up. This has nothing to do with having a nice terminal building. If they want to build a pleasant environment for the pax then let them do it, it's better than having a greyhound terminal building and still having bad airspace.
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  #2451  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 9:50 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ yes lga should have been closed and stewart expanded. the rebuild was foolish. unfortunately that ship has left the pier.
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  #2452  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 8:34 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
That's because the airspace is badly designed and overcrowded. LGA should have been shut down years ago to allow proper traffic routings and for JFK to be fully utilized. Right now JFK is only half utilized due to LGA. An expanded JFK and EWR would have allowed far better airspace utilization and on time flights if LGA was out of the picture. However, short sighted planners in the region have messed up. This has nothing to do with having a nice terminal building. If they want to build a pleasant environment for the pax then let them do it, it's better than having a greyhound terminal building and still having bad airspace.
40% of air traffic delays nationwide are the result of airspace congestion in the NYC region. Around a third of all aircraft in the US cycle through the NYC airport system everyday, so the resulting knock-on effects means one of the largest cause of flight delays in SoCal is NYC's crappy airspace.
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  #2453  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 1:27 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
That's because the airspace is badly designed and overcrowded. LGA should have been shut down years ago to allow proper traffic routings and for JFK to be fully utilized. Right now JFK is only half utilized due to LGA. An expanded JFK and EWR would have allowed far better airspace utilization and on time flights if LGA was out of the picture. However, short sighted planners in the region have messed up. This has nothing to do with having a nice terminal building. If they want to build a pleasant environment for the pax then let them do it, it's better than having a greyhound terminal building and still having bad airspace.
The governor favors style over substance and the fight to add more runways to JFK would have gotten ugly. Politically speaking giving LGA new terminals is the easy way out.
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  #2454  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2019, 5:13 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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mta budget approved -- it includes bond $$$ based on congestion tolling below 60th street:


Markets
MTA to Sell $25 Billion of Congestion-Fee Bonds in Record Budget
By Henry Goldman
September 25, 2019, 3:14 PM EDT

City congestion pricing would pay bulk of $52 billion budget
Billions could help fix regional transit crisis, officials say

New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority board unanimously approved its largest five-year capital spending plan ever Wednesday, with almost half of it financed through congestion pricing fees on motorists entering midtown Manhattan.

The $51.5 billion spending plan for 2020 through 2024 is 70% larger than the current capital budget and relies on $25 billion of municipal bonds that will be financed by charging congestion pricing fees to enter Manhattan’s central business core. When the state legislature and Governor Andrew Cuomo enacted the law in June, they expected $1 billion a year in revenue from such fees to pay debt service on about $15 billion of borrowing. The additional $10 billion of debt will need to be paid for with higher fees, lower interest rates, or both.

more:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-record-budget
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  #2455  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2019, 9:15 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Would be awesome to see some idea of what the CC structure will look like some day. Though I presume they'll hide it till the last minute to stall push back from groups (everyone) who want exemptions.
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  #2456  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 11:12 AM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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Toll hikes are to occur per Fox5 News. All the bridges/tunnels which sucks. Crap service, barely any improvements... yet toll hikes.
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  #2457  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 4:48 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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I like that the Utica Avenue Subway proposal finally has some funding attached. That should be the next subway expansion project following Second Ave. Subway.

There's a huge transit-oriented swath of East Brooklyn with no subway service.
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  #2458  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 5:07 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ that's probably a throw in because its a pet project of the mayor. its needed, but i would prefer triboro rx or connecting up the air trains in jamaica to get some interboro loop service, which would be far more useful to more people. although i guess we will get something like that with the four new bronx mnrr stations.
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  #2459  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 6:37 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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I like that the Utica Avenue Subway proposal finally has some funding attached. That should be the next subway expansion project following Second Ave. Subway.

There's a huge transit-oriented swath of East Brooklyn with no subway service.
I'm entirely unimpressed that they're spending more money to study the obvious while reducing bus service on the corridor. Either build it or don't.
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  #2460  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 6:55 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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^ that's probably a throw in because its a pet project of the mayor. its needed, but i would prefer triboro rx or connecting up the air trains in jamaica to get some interboro loop service, which would be far more useful to more people. although i guess we will get something like that with the four new bronx mnrr stations.
Airtrain is a FAR less important project than either Utica or Triboro to many millions of people but it's coming out of a different pot of cash (Port Authority). If the PA could ever build something for a less than ruinous cost connecting to the existing Airtrain system at Jamaica would be worthwhile...but the LGA Airtrain is 300% over already so I'm not hopeful.
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