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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Very much so. Bernier, although socially liberal, has a lot of very conservative economic policies. He is in fact more of a libertarian. He is sort of a Tea Party guy economically but socially a Democrat to use a US analogy. .
Though his views on immigration are unforgivable and the kiss of death in terms of progressive/liberal people these days.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 8:17 PM
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Though his views on immigration are unforgivable and the kiss of death in terms of progressive/liberal people these days.
That makes sense for areas with low immigration, places like Newfoundland that have to fight for every individual newcomer. There also simply isn't enough immigration for it to become a significant social concern, especially compared to areas like Southern Ontario where immigrants naturally end up with no concerted effort by the government.

So it's not so much a sacred thing, it's just that by any objective measure immigration isn't causing a problem here and we need more. For example, this was today:





They gave a sneak peek at the province's upcoming immigration marketing campaign, which is almost as good as our fading tourism marketing campaign.

It profiles immigrants who started businesses here or are working in businesses here, and it's all very Newfoundland-centric. I.E. a guy from Syria who owns a mechanic's garage and ends with the tagline, "He could put the arse in a cat." Or a veiled woman from United Arab Emirates working in one of our little (but niche-leading) tech companies that ends with the tagline, "She knows what she's at." It's going to be fun, most of the humour lost on newcomers themselves but I'm sure locals will love it, and really it's employers we need to get on side - and that is mostly just an awareness issue. All the old-merchant-orgs-turned-employer-groups here are very pro-immigration, and not just in the McDonald's sense.

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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 11:22 PM
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I'm still hoping the Libs have ranked ballots in their 2019 platform. Too bad they weren't specific the last go 'round.
And you would believe such a promise?
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 11:58 PM
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It seems quite logical that Bernier would take votes away from the Cons.

However, I, for one, will be watching the PPC very carefully, and I've only ever voted Lib and NDP. I'm finished with those left-of-centre parties (for now), and the Cons have never offered anything that remotely interests me.

I wonder how many other Canadians are like me...
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
It seems quite logical that Bernier would take votes away from the Cons.

However, I, for one, will be watching the PPC very carefully, and I've only ever voted Lib and NDP. I'm finished with those left-of-centre parties (for now), and the Cons have never offered anything that remotely interests me.

I wonder how many other Canadians are like me...
How much effort does Bernier need to put in to steal a serious number of votes from all 3 parties, though? If that’s possible at all, that is.
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
It seems quite logical that Bernier would take votes away from the Cons.

However, I, for one, will be watching the PPC very carefully, and I've only ever voted Lib and NDP. I'm finished with those left-of-centre parties (for now), and the Cons have never offered anything that remotely interests me.

I wonder how many other Canadians are like me...
I'm curious where you fall on the 4 quadrant political spectrum.

As for the great untapped masses, I'd say there's a gap between the Trudeau Liberals and the current iteration of the Conservative Party, somewhere where the old PCs (and 1990s/early 2000s Liberals) used to make their home.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:22 AM
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How much effort does Bernier need to put in to steal a serious number of votes from all 3 parties, though? If that’s possible at all, that is.
I don't think that's possible. Most NDP supporters won't go much to the right of the Liberals and most current Conservative party voters won't go to the left of the Liberals. There's less of a libertarian/authoritarian gap in Canada than other places.

That's why the Liberals have done so well historically - they can morph into whatever the zeitgeist requires.

Quebec just does its own thing in the sense that it wants a hands-off, but left-leaning federal government. Since the '80s, they've gone PC, BQ, NDP and most recently Liberal.

That's Bernier's best shot - landing in the zone the PC party used to occupy. He's got a base of support in Quebec and if there's enough disaffected Liberals and former Progressive Conservatives, he could make a splash in the eastern part of Canada.

However, splitting the right just usually means Liberal majorities.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:23 AM
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Bernier has had lots of publicity and is polling within the margin of error of zero. Not sure there is any reason to expect that will change.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:25 AM
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Bernier has had lots of publicity and is polling within the margin of error of zero. Not sure there is any reason to expect that will change.
Unless he pulls of a Jack Layton style campaign in Quebec...

I agree with you though.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:27 AM
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I'm definitely in that mushy middle, more Left than Right, though.

I wasn't of voting age during the Clark, Mulroney days but I would have likely voted Conservative in '80 and perhaps '84. And later, I mean, what exactly was the difference between, let's say, Messrs Charest and Chretien?

Anyway, I need something different and there are plenty of folks (not DoFo folks, of course) who share that view.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:35 AM
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I don't think that's possible. Most NDP supporters won't go much to the right of the Liberals and most current Conservative party voters won't go to the left of the Liberals. There's less of a libertarian/authoritarian gap in Canada than other places.

That's why the Liberals have done so well historically - they can morph into whatever the zeitgeist requires.

Quebec just does its own thing in the sense that it wants a hands-off, but left-leaning federal government. Since the '80s, they've gone PC, BQ, NDP and most recently Liberal.

That's Bernier's best shot - landing in the zone the PC party used to occupy. He's got a base of support in Quebec and if there's enough disaffected Liberals and former Progressive Conservatives, he could make a splash in the eastern part of Canada.

However, splitting the right just usually means Liberal majorities.
Likely, yes. But I do wonder how long the Libs can persist in their current form. They will undoubtedly devour themselves before long and either be forced to shift back to the Centre-Left or rebrand themselves as a social justice party.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Likely, yes. But I do wonder how long the Libs can persist in their current form. They will undoubtedly devour themselves before long and either be forced to shift back to the Centre-Left or rebrand themselves as a social justice party.
I thought their current iteration was centre-left.
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 12:46 AM
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I thought their current iteration was centre-left.
I don't know. I don't see anything Centrist about them.
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:38 AM
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I don't know. I don't see anything Centrist about them.
Really? They're as pro corporatism as the Conservatives.
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:50 AM
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Damn those social justice Liberals, selling arms to the Saudis and complaining the Indians are slow!
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 4:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
So will JT end up having to share this pie called Québec with Bernier or no (assuming Scheer and Singh to be negligible)?
Bernier isn't very popular at all in Quebec overall. He's well liked in the Beauce valley for sure. And maybe to a lesser extent in the Quebec City region. But he's still seen as pretty much a joke in the rest of the province. He's no François Legault.
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 8:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
I'm definitely in that mushy middle, more Left than Right, though.

I wasn't of voting age during the Clark, Mulroney days but I would have likely voted Conservative in '80 and perhaps '84. And later, I mean, what exactly was the difference between, let's say, Messrs Charest and Chretien?

Anyway, I need something different and there are plenty of folks (not DoFo folks, of course) who share that view.
I think a lot of people are in the same boat as you. I would also be much more prone to vote Tory if it went back to it`s Progressive Conservative roots. Unfortunately the Western base hijacked the entire party which started in the early 1990s with the rise of the Reform Party. In order to get those Reform voters back, the Tories took a definite turn to the right and this was galvanized by Harper and taking the word `progressive` out of it`s name, sealed the deal.


Now the Tories are viewed by most as being a reactionary party as opposed to the past Progressive Conservatives who were more socially cautious but definitely not reactionary. Now anyone with even a mildly progressive social view really has no alternative than the Liberals. The NDP had it`s one big chance and blew it and then added insult to injury by having Singh take the helm. The Conservatives are seen as too conservative for most especially in the East and urban Canada so many {like myself} will probably end up voting Liberal because the alternatives are worse which isn`t exactly a ringing endorsement.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 11:33 AM
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I think a lot of people are in the same boat as you. I would also be much more prone to vote Tory if it went back to it`s Progressive Conservative roots. Unfortunately the Western base hijacked the entire party which started in the early 1990s with the rise of the Reform Party. In order to get those Reform voters back, the Tories took a definite turn to the right and this was galvanized by Harper and taking the word `progressive` out of it`s name, sealed the deal.


Now the Tories are viewed by most as being a reactionary party as opposed to the past Progressive Conservatives who were more socially cautious but definitely not reactionary. Now anyone with even a mildly progressive social view really has no alternative than the Liberals. The NDP had it`s one big chance and blew it and then added insult to injury by having Singh take the helm. The Conservatives are seen as too conservative for most especially in the East and urban Canada so many {like myself} will probably end up voting Liberal because the alternatives are worse which isn`t exactly a ringing endorsement.
No...no it isn't.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 11:43 AM
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Really? They're as pro corporatism as the Conservatives.
Yeah, I suppose corporatism is more in the realm of the right-wing but the lines have certainly blurred on that front.
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:09 PM
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And you would believe such a promise?
Given that I understand that all campaign "promises" are merely statements of intention, yes. An election of campaign platforms with the NDP for PR, the Liberals for ranked ballots, and the Conservatives for FPTP would be interesting, imo.
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