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View Poll Results: Which party do you plan to vote for in the 2019 federal election?
Conservative Party 69 26.34%
Liberal Party 116 44.27%
NDP 33 12.60%
Green Party 26 9.92%
Peoples Party of Canada 18 6.87%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 10:45 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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[QUOTE=The Chemist;8682330]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kel View Post

How brainwashed do you have to be to think that all of Alberta's problems magically vanish with separation?
Not sure why I'm quoted as I didn't say that. But I agree, separation solves nobody's problems. It's just a right wing tactic in Alberta to get the UPC base riled up.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 10:48 PM
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It seems there's a bug in the quoting programming - I've manually fixed it so it doesn't sound like you're advocating for separatism.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 10:53 PM
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^Nothing is more petty and eyeroll worthy than Alberta separatism.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 11:14 PM
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Lol at Alberta separating. Like they woukd all of asufden be keeping more money and selling more gas around the globe. It might be a rich nation for a short period but a landlocked nation with one main source of income is destined to fail. If they thibk people don't want their expensive dirty oil now I doubt separating would make anything better.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Lol at Alberta separating. Like they woukd all of asufden be keeping more money and selling more gas around the globe. It might be a rich nation for a short period but a landlocked nation with one main source of income is destined to fail. If they thibk people don't want their expensive dirty oil now I doubt separating would make anything better.
Totally agreed. I think Alberta separatists are completely out to lunch. How many land locked nations are in the G20? Exactly zero. And if they think it's hard getting a pipeline built now, when we're part of the same country, exactly how do they think it'd be easier once they're an independent country?

Alberta separatists are even more pie in the sky than Brexiteers, and that's saying a lot.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Interesting we have 15 Conservative voters here according to the poll, but I don't see anybody posting saying that's where their vote is, or why.
OK, I'll give you my reason why.

I am a default Tory. I tend to vote Conservative, but not always. In fact, in the past, I have voted Liberal, NDP and even Green. I pay attention to policies and to the attributes of the local candidate. These things matter.

I am voting Conservative in the upcoming election because of the way that JT and Morneau "reformed" the small business tax system. Going in, they knew what they wanted to accomplish, but had no idea how to do it, or what the consequences of their actions would be. They really hadn't thought it out, and it would have caused irreparable harm to family owned small businesses, family farms and independently incorporated professionals. In particular, it would have made it impossible for succession planning for small family businesses and farmers, and crippled retirement savings opportunities for incorporated professionals. Even after the folly of their proposals were pointed out to them, they refused to make any concessions until the very last minute, and even then they only budged slightly.

JT and Morneau were targeting the small self employed fish with their proposals, all the while sparing their friends and high profile contributors and cronies from any harm. In particular, I am referring to the trust fund babies and the corporate executives and directors who receive a large part of their income as stock options. I found this omission on their part infuriating.

I promised myself at the time I would never vote Liberal ever again, and I intend to keep this promise to my grave. My permanent second choice ballot choice is now the Greens.
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Sep 10, 2019 at 12:48 AM. Reason: I accidentally referred to stock dividends when I meant stock options
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:10 AM
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Wow, plan to keep the promise to never vote Liberal to your grave? I can see never wanting to support any of the people involved in the decision, but that's a pretty hardcore commitment!

Well... unless you're older than i realized.
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Wow, plan to keep the promise to never vote Liberal to your grave? I can see never wanting to support any of the people involved in the decision, but that's a pretty hardcore commitment!

Well... unless you're older than i realized.
I plan to be around for about another 20 years.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by svlt View Post
Honestly I don't even know why I'm supposed to dislike Trudeau, it just seems like the flavor of the month to hate on him while continuing to vote for the LPC.
Trudeau was initially elected in part due to his 'charm' factor - not a super hard feat given his competition at the time.

His initial likability was helped by the fact he emphasized the zeitgeist of the times - to wit: "Because it's 2015" when he selected his gender-balanced cabinet.

At some point along the way, he seemed to get a little too full of himself. The "cute/candid" moments became a little too scripted, the Halloween costumes a little bit too gauche (you think you're Superman, do you?), but for myself it was the photo-op trip to India. I thought it was really silly for him and his family to get all done up as if they were adherents to Hinduism - it smacked of a patronizing appeal to a specific set of voters. Imagine if the Prime Minister of India came to Canada and wore Mountie uniforms for a political ploy. It's weird and unbecoming of a Prime Minister of a country.

Then there was the points where the rubber didn't meet the road - tossing JWR under the bus for SNC-Lavalin, the spat with the Saudis (but we'll still gladly sell them weapons), and a few other things that just didn't jive with the image he projected with respect to his 'enlightened 21st century man' bit.

If you put the same old wine in a new bottle, people will eventually figure it out. A PM that used the 'JT image' less would likely get less flack for deviating from it. If you're going to make your image as 'enlightened 21st century man' but run the ship like an old-school '20th century PM', people will catch on soon enough.

Last edited by wave46; Sep 10, 2019 at 12:47 AM.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:26 AM
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FWIW ... JWR.

Because you know ... it's 2019
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:34 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Totally agreed. I think Alberta separatists are completely out to lunch. How many land locked nations are in the G20? Exactly zero.
Lol, like we would believe for a microsecond you'd prefer to live the average Indonesian's or Indian's G20 life to the average Swiss' landlocked life.
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:37 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Trudeau was initially elected in part due to his 'charm' factor - not a super hard feat given his competition at the time.

His initial likability was helped by the fact he emphasized the zeitgeist of the times - to wit: "Because it's 2015" when he selected his gender-balanced cabinet.

At some point along the way, he seemed to get a little too full of himself. The "cute/candid" moments became a little too scripted, the Halloween costumes a little bit too gauche (you think you're Superman, do you?), but for myself it was the photo-op trip to India. I thought it was really silly for him and his family to get all done up as if they were adherents to Hinduism - it smacked of a patronizing appeal to a specific set of voters. Imagine if the Prime Minister of India came to Canada and wear Mountie uniforms for a political ploy. It's weird and unbecoming of a Prime Minister of a country.

Then there was the points where the rubber didn't meet the road - tossing JWR under the bus for SNC-Lavalin, the spat with the Saudis (but we'll still gladly sell them weapons), and a few other things that just didn't jive with the image he projected with respect to his 'enlightened 21st century man' bit.
I have been a Liberal in the past but quite frankly I think this is the worst government in my lifetime. An embarrassing, virtue signalling cabinet (save Freeland, the only competent one there) that gets owned in the House. And how many people have left the caucus, four, and they are all women running from the fake feminist.

I had actually thought of the bolded above (but substituted that for a lumberjack) but this didn't just happen once but multiple times on the India trip. His only saving grace is that he has seemed to lie low in the past few months to prevent any more embarrassing gaffes.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:41 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Trudeau was initially elected in part due to his 'charm' factor - not a super hard feat given his competition at the time.

His initial likability was helped by the fact he emphasized the zeitgeist of the times - to wit: "Because it's 2015" when he selected his gender-balanced cabinet.
Maybe in Anglo Canada at the time, but for Quebec that was sooooo 2007. By 2015 we had evolved beyond gender-balanced cabinet into the next level (merit-based cabinet). I expect Canada to eventually follow in our footsteps again with about a 10-year lag.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Maybe in Anglo Canada at the time, but for Quebec that was sooooo 2007. By 2015 we had evolved beyond gender-balanced cabinet into the next level (merit-based cabinet). I expect Canada to eventually follow in our footsteps again with about a 10-year lag.
I am very much on the outside of the Quebec bubble with respect to what is the zeitgeist there.

This merit-based cabinet thing sounds nice, though. Imagine how well things would run if the most competent people were in charge.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
This merit-based cabinet thing sounds nice, though. Imagine how well things would run if the most competent people were in charge.
This is the way it should be, but so much time is spent crafting cabinets with ethnic, linguistic, regional and gender balance in mind, that competence these days seems to be the least important factor under consideration.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 1:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
This is the way it should be, but so much time is spent crafting cabinets with ethnic, linguistic, regional and gender balance in mind, that competence these days seems to be the least important factor under consideration.
I disagree that competence is not important today. There are often ministers who are dropped from cabinet because of poor performance or scandals.

Cabinet ministers get advisors, experts and staff so it's not as though they are making decisions on their own even if they have the final say. It's just that they sometimes don't listen to their experts for political reasons or they take a chance on something.

I work in government and can tell you that the majority of ministerial decisions made are good ones. But there are some that are controversial, risky or poorly thought out that occur and sometimes they end up working out well and sometimes end up being disasters.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 2:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
How brainwashed do you have to be to think that all of Alberta's problems magically vanish with separation?
It is entirely possible that he was just talking about more autonomy for Alberta within the federation.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I don't think that's quite what she said, was it? Although it will be seen as a gaffe in many quarters. The surprise for me was learning that the leader of the Green Party does not have the power to whip her MPs' votes.
The Green Party has an official policy against it. The only party that does.

She also will have at most 2 or 3 other members, so, like, what's the point? If she had a party whip and it was the anti-abortion member, what then? Force them to force themselves to vote against their opinion?
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:24 AM
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I'll be voting Liberal , while Trudeau has had a few setbacks I think when looking at all the candidates there is nobody who I think would do a better job. I didn't vote for Trudeau in 2015 for any specific policy plank, just to have a younger fresher face leading Canada. I understand why many Conservatives don't like him as he is the definition of everything they hate in a politician (similar to how Harper and Scheer really rub me the wrong way)

This election will be interesting, I think the polls will bounce around quite a bit but in the end (providing any major fiascos) Trudeau will emerge victorious with a strong minority or weak majority mandate.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 5:01 AM
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If I were Justin Trudeau I'd be nervous about focusing too much on individual merit.

Aside from the obvious identity group quota system there's also patronage. It's challenging to pick anything close to optimal candidates given the demands of patronage, and when you add in identity quotas it gets even harder.

Some bellwether policies that an ideal party might promote:

- Propose to standardize and simplify all professional requirements nationally. Get rid of all interprovincial trade restrictions, e.g. limitations to moving liquor across borders. Get rid of dairy industry regulation.
- National pharmacare.
- Minimum labour standards; 20 days a year of holidays for everybody and 6 sick days a year.
- Decriminalization of all drugs. All criminal records relating to possession will be expunged. Study reforms to the criminal justice system to reduce barriers to employment after people have served time.
- Ratchet up means testing on some senior benefits. For example, the federal government should not be paying OAS to people who have $120,000 a year in income. Tighten rules around capital gains exemptions for primary residences, and consider ways to improve tax collection from people who earn income outside of Canada.
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