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  #461  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 3:39 PM
jaxg8r1 jaxg8r1 is offline
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The Jaguars aren't leaving Jacksonville for London. If you pay attention, not only is Shad Khan saying this repeatedly but is investing significant amounts of money into Jacksonville. They just finished the another round of significant investment into the stadium (the 2nd investment in the last few years) and just announced another 2.5 billion stadium district plan.
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/201...hipyards-lot-j

Jacksonville has been middle of the road in the league for attendance but is no where near the bottom...As of last season ranked 21st out of 32 in total attendance, and 18th as a percentage of the capacity (currently 95.6% full)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The Jaguars are also removing the remaining tarps on the stadium so they can sell more seats (season ticket sales have been strong since they're not nearly as awful as they've been for a long time).

Finally, according the Khan the reason he wants to buy Wembley is to make sure the Jaguars can always play a game or two in London because they're seeing lots of positive brand building there...And other NFL teams are wanting to get in on it. If they control the stadium, that means even if other teams play there the Jaguars can still get significant amounts of revenue.
http://www.jaguars.com/news/article-...4-cdb654a5e2e5
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  #462  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 3:57 PM
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I would be shocked if there were an NFL franchise in London anytime soon.

And it isn't "just as close" as the East Coast to the West Coast (which is already a long, problematic trip). Three time zones isn't the same as five time zones, obviously.
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  #463  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 5:49 PM
jd3189 jd3189 is offline
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Was always curious about this London talk. Despite some NFL fans over there in England, the league should focus on expanding beyond the US in North America.
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  #464  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 6:26 PM
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Was always curious about this London talk. Despite some NFL fans over there in England, the league should focus on expanding beyond the US in North America.
I would hate to see an NFL expansion team in London.
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  #465  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 6:35 PM
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I would hate to see an NFL expansion team in London.
NFL NIMBY!!! Go to baseball
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  #466  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 6:36 PM
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I would be shocked if there were an NFL franchise in London anytime soon.

And it isn't "just as close" as the East Coast to the West Coast (which is already a long, problematic trip). Three time zones isn't the same as five time zones, obviously.
I was curious about the distance between Honolulu and the west coast and London and the east coast.

Honolulu - L.A. is 2,560 miles
Boston - L.A. is 2,591 miles
Miami - Seattle is 2,731


Distance from London:
Boston - 3,272 miles
L.A. - 5,442 miles
Seattle - 4,785 miles
Miami - 4,429

Honolulu to Boston - 5,083 miles
Honolulu is closer to Boston than London is to L.A.
London is really far away from every other NFL city.
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  #467  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 7:33 PM
skyscraper skyscraper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxg8r1 View Post
The Jaguars aren't leaving Jacksonville for London. If you pay attention, not only is Shad Khan saying this repeatedly but is investing significant amounts of money into Jacksonville. They just finished the another round of significant investment into the stadium (the 2nd investment in the last few years) and just announced another 2.5 billion stadium district plan.
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/201...hipyards-lot-j

Jacksonville has been middle of the road in the league for attendance but is no where near the bottom...As of last season ranked 21st out of 32 in total attendance, and 18th as a percentage of the capacity (currently 95.6% full)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The Jaguars are also removing the remaining tarps on the stadium so they can sell more seats (season ticket sales have been strong since they're not nearly as awful as they've been for a long time).

Finally, according the Khan the reason he wants to buy Wembley is to make sure the Jaguars can always play a game or two in London because they're seeing lots of positive brand building there...And other NFL teams are wanting to get in on it. If they control the stadium, that means even if other teams play there the Jaguars can still get significant amounts of revenue.
http://www.jaguars.com/news/article-...4-cdb654a5e2e5
This whole thing is odd. If the English FA is selling Wembley, and the English national team is going to play its home games in other stadiums (like the US national team does), why would Kahn buy the stadium if he weren't going to move the Jags there? There is no consistent revenue stream without the FA. There are the FA Cup semi finals and finals played there, and of course concerts, but after the sp*rs move into their new shitehart lane stadium next season, the economics doesn't add up to buy Wembley without moving some team there.
Maybe the Jags will play there, and some other NFL team will play in north london, at shitehart lane, thereby having a local rival and cutting down on some of the travel.
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  #468  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 7:59 PM
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Why all the focus on selling out Stadiums?

Don't you guys realize the revenues from game related activities (suites, parking, concessions) are only 10 to 15% of teams revenues? It is all about Television Money, so the question is will the London Metro area or I guess UK in general tune in to NFL games? I'm guessing to be considered successful the League would want London metro tuning in to say 1/3 the Neilsen ratings of markets like Jacksonville or Phoenix. Then will they watch other NFL games or only the local London Team?

I'm sure they have done the market research on this anyone know if it has ever been released?
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  #469  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 9:37 PM
jaxg8r1 jaxg8r1 is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
This whole thing is odd. If the English FA is selling Wembley, and the English national team is going to play its home games in other stadiums (like the US national team does), why would Kahn buy the stadium if he weren't going to move the Jags there? There is no consistent revenue stream without the FA. There are the FA Cup semi finals and finals played there, and of course concerts, but after the sp*rs move into their new shitehart lane stadium next season, the economics doesn't add up to buy Wembley without moving some team there.
Maybe the Jags will play there, and some other NFL team will play in north london, at shitehart lane, thereby having a local rival and cutting down on some of the travel.
I believe the FA has said they intend to keep playing there, using it to host events, friendlies, games, etc. as well as keeping the name Wembley Stadium (instead of say, Google Park).

But this would allow Khan to keep other teams (particularly the ones that struggle) from establishing any sort of brand identity in London (beyond the occasional game rotation).
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  #470  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2018, 10:01 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
This whole thing is odd. If the English FA is selling Wembley, and the English national team is going to play its home games in other stadiums (like the US national team does), why would Kahn buy the stadium if he weren't going to move the Jags there? There is no consistent revenue stream without the FA. There are the FA Cup semi finals and finals played there, and of course concerts, but after the sp*rs move into their new shitehart lane stadium next season, the economics doesn't add up to buy Wembley without moving some team there.
Maybe the Jags will play there, and some other NFL team will play in north london, at shitehart lane, thereby having a local rival and cutting down on some of the travel.
I don't think London could support two NFL teams at all, one is pushing it given the profile of the sport here. As far as I've heard the English FA would continue to play games there for the England national team and domestic finals /semi-finals which mostly fall outside the NFL season anyway so there wouldn't be much fixture clash and would be a good stream of income for the new owners. They might take some England international soccer games around the country but they would still use Wembley for most of them.

As Tottenham Hotspur have deliberately built their new stadium with a dual configuration to host NFL football as well as soccer they might be thinking they have wasted their money if Wembley gets a franchise as I think that will soak up all UK demand for any NFL football.

http://new-stadium.tottenhamhotspur.com/nfl/
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  #471  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2018, 5:16 AM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
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Wouldn't at all be surprised if by 2030 Las Vegas has an NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB team. Within the last two years alone, they're halfway there and given the NBA's past interest in Vegas (via the All-Star Game and summer camps) I'd venture to say it's the next league up.
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  #472  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2018, 8:39 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Wouldn't at all be surprised if by 2030 Las Vegas has an NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB team. Within the last two years alone, they're halfway there and given the NBA's past interest in Vegas (via the All-Star Game and summer camps) I'd venture to say it's the next league up.
Vegas isn't big enough for more than two teams. Despite the good start, the NHL wasn't a good idea for Vegas and instead, the NBA should have been the arena sport. MLB certainly wouldn't do well there, even with a retractable roof stadium and only the MLS could also be added, since it's not nearly as big of a deal.
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  #473  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2018, 4:24 PM
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
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Vegas isn't big enough for more than two teams. Despite the good start, the NHL wasn't a good idea for Vegas and instead, the NBA should have been the arena sport. MLB certainly wouldn't do well there, even with a retractable roof stadium and only the MLS could also be added, since it's not nearly as big of a deal.
^There's plenty of money in Vegas to support professional sports. The casinos will buy the boxes/suites to comp to their high rollers and there are over 150,000 hotel rooms in Vegas that are full of people spending money on anything to be entertained. Professional sports is just one more option. Sports gambling is HUGE, I watched the NBA Finals at a sports book.

As for NHL - Las Vegas - the locals [originally from all over the U.S.] have embraced the Knights, just like southern Californians have.

I think an NBA franchise would do very well there.
E] the Raiders are perfect for Las Vegas and they'll have no problem selling out 8 games/year.
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  #474  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2018, 8:59 PM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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^There's plenty of money in Vegas to support professional sports. The casinos will buy the boxes/suites to comp to their high rollers and there are over 150,000 hotel rooms in Vegas that are full of people spending money on anything to be entertained. Professional sports is just one more option. Sports gambling is HUGE, I watched the NBA Finals at a sports book.

As for NHL - Las Vegas - the locals [originally from all over the U.S.] have embraced the Knights, just like southern Californians have.

I think an NBA franchise would do very well there.
E] the Raiders are perfect for Las Vegas and they'll have no problem selling out 8 games/year.
Vegas has a very untraditional labor force that can work at any point in the 24 hour day. Their traditional labor force with any level of disposable income is tiny and a very small percentage that live in Vegas lived there 40 years ago, meaning few people are going to be loyal to any team there. The NFL makes sense because there's only 8 (12) dates a year and it's popular among tourists and gamblers, plus the team moving there is very popular in California and with its local transplants.

Hockey is about as foreign as it gets. I just don't see how it'll survive unless the GK's make a deep playoff run every year for the first 20 years. MLS makes sense and if not hockey, then the NBA makes sense as an arena sport.

Last edited by ThePhun1; Jun 11, 2018 at 1:20 AM.
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  #475  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 1:19 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mello View Post
Don't you guys realize the revenues from game related activities (suites, parking, concessions) are only 10 to 15% of teams revenues? It is all about Television Money, so the question is will the London Metro area or I guess UK in general tune in to NFL games? I'm guessing to be considered successful the League would want London metro tuning in to say 1/3 the Neilsen ratings of markets like Jacksonville or Phoenix. Then will they watch other NFL games or only the local London Team?

I'm sure they have done the market research on this anyone know if it has ever been released?
Not just London but people in all of Western Europe. Lots of expats.
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  #476  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 4:38 PM
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Vegas has a very untraditional labor force that can work at any point in the 24 hour day. Their traditional labor force with any level of disposable income is tiny and a very small percentage that live in Vegas lived there 40 years ago, meaning few people are going to be loyal to any team there.
^Do you have a source for this information? Those working the 3rd shift could attend a 7pm game before their shift. Also, that untraditional labor force you speak of still has 2 days off of work to entertain themselves.

Las Vegas has a permanent population of 2.2 million people and growing at a fast rate [not to mention the millions of entertainment crazed tourists].

*Tourists: 2016 set the all-time record for number of tourists to Clark County at 42,936,100. 2017 was 42,214,200 with an all-time high - Room Tax Collections of $282 million.
*2017 McCarren International set an all-time record number of passengers at 48,500,194.

*Population information:
Las Vegas MSA population will pass Sacramento and Pittsburgh within 2-3 years. Las Vegas MSA is already larger than Cincinnati, Kansas City, Austin, Columbus, Cleveland, Indianapolis, San Jose, Nashville, Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Salt Lake City, Buffalo -- I think you get the point.



I'm not sure how familiar you are with Vegas, but it's a pretty compact Valley, meaning you can access the strip [T-Mobile Arena and the new Raiders' stadium is just off the 15 freeway behind New York NY Casino/Hotel and Mandalay Bay] from the suburbs of Henderson on the east and Summerlin on the west in 20 minutes or less. You can literally be in the emptiness of the desert without another town for 100 miles and have a view of the strip -- it's compact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1
The NFL makes sense because there's only 8 (12) dates a year and it's popular among tourists and gamblers, plus the team moving there is very popular in California and with its local transplants.
You're stating that the NFL would be popular for the same reasons that other sports franchises would be popular. It's a city full of tourists and transplants and that city's entire existence is based on entertaining people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1
Hockey is about as foreign as it gets. I just don't see how it'll survive unless the GK's make a deep playoff run every year for the first 20 years. MLS makes sense and if not hockey, then the NBA makes sense as an arena sport.
Las Vegas is in the desert, but I don't think Hockey is foreign to Vegas when it's a city full of transplants and tourists. Hockey seems to do well along coastal California, places that are much warmer than Vegas in the wintertime.

Is your reasoning because hockey players aren't born and raised in Las Vegas therefore people won't watch it there?

I think the NBA would do great in Vegas.
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  #477  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 4:45 PM
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Why would people spend time out of their vacation in Vegas to go to a football/baseball/hockey game? If they're from a big city, they can do this at home. I would figure any pro-team in LV would be for Vegas's own population which is certainly big enough. Not for tourists.
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  #478  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 4:51 PM
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Not just London but people in all of Western Europe. Lots of expats.
At this point I would be pretty hesitant to push the NFL to expats in Europe as well as the European population in general. I am an expat and I can give you my perpspective on the matter.

The NFL owners have now clearly taken a pro-Trump position. Europeans in general don't understand playing the national anthem at a sporting event that isn't an international competition. Pretty much only totalitarian states or unconfident states do that. The heavy tie-in between the US military and NFL also makes a lot of Europeans uncomforable these days when the Trump regime is looking more and more to have ambitions of totalitarianism.

Trump's antics in Quebec have majorly pissed off not only Canada but also the US allies in Europe. Maybe the NFL can appeal to the equivalent of US rednecks and that can be their market but I imagine it would just be a lightening rod of anti-Trump sentiment.

Maybe I'm just tinted by my hatred of Donald Trump but I'm cancelling my NFL league pass broadband subscription after 5 years. I'll have to find something better to spend my Sunday evenings and $400 on.
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  #479  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 4:54 PM
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i don't go to vegas anymore, but if i still did, and i happened to be there when the blackhawks were in town to play the golden knights, i'd very seriously consider going to the game, provided that ticket prices are within reason.

yeah, i can also go to blackhawks games in chicago whenever, but it'd be cool to cheer them on at a road game too.
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  #480  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2018, 5:06 PM
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The Toronto Wolfpack play in the British rugby system, so it's not unheard of for a league to have overseas teams. And the KHL spans from Slovakia to China. The farthest cities in that league are 8000 km apart.
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