NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[Dac150]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

It's just a matter of when. Manhattan needs new office space.

This sums it up entirely.

[Dale]

Was it just a false rumor we heard awhile back, that Silverstein would have good news on 2 and 3 shortly ?

[Roadcruiser1]

I have to say it is looking bad for the World Trade Center.

[Roadcruiser1]

Or we can all get together and open an architectural firm and hopefully lease room in Two World Trade Center. I would chip in when I finish College.

[Don098]

Originally Posted by cityenthusiast

I know its a financing thing but I think they should go ahead and build towers 2 and 3 they wont be completed for at least two years and Im pretty sure with the high demand for office space and the fact that these towers are extremely important that most of this office space will be leased by the time their finished. Does anyone agree?

I agree, but it doesn't work that way. Even though developers may have the personal capital to physically erect these towers without securing anchor tenants and subsequent bank finances, they never will take that kind of risk. What if something happens to ruin the allure of NYC, and the real estate market comes back down to earth? Anything can happen, and it's naive and closed-mind to believe anything otherwise...

I don't agree with RobertWapole that the economy will be in great shape 5-6 years from now. There are no indications to me that the middle class is strengthening, that quality jobs are being created, that we as a country are beginning to PRODUCE goods rather than CONSUME them, that our education system is producing and RETAINING the world's top talent, that the US is ready to take risks and think innovatively again, and to invest in science instead of political doctrine. The macro economy is in extraordinarily bad shape, and NYC is merely surviving on it's own bubble of capital that has been allowed to balloon to stupid proportions. If I were a developer, I'd be operating in a very conservative manner, and SIlverstein is already assuming risk by building these tower's podiums without financing.

With that said, the demand for real estate in NYC is still greater than in any other part of the country, and the question is not if, but when these buildings will be built. Whether or not they'll be built as currently designed will become a more relevant question as time goes on...

[yankeesfan1000]

Originally Posted by Dale

Was it just a false rumor we heard awhile back, that Silverstein would have good news on 2 and 3 shortly ?

Silverstein said that in a radio interview or hinted at it. I posted the link in one of the trade center threads. I'd look for it but I'm on a train heading bal to the city.

I agree with the general sentiment though, the demand is there for the space it's just a matter of time.

[Roadcruiser1]

I remember reading that Citibank is looking for room, and was considering the World Trade Center. What happened to that?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Don098

the question is not if, but when these buildings will be built. Whether or not they'll be built as currently designed will become a more relevant question as time goes on...

If they are going to be built, (its more a question of when), they will be built as is. That office space is going to be rebuilt. If anything, you would see more of it squeezed in if necessary.

For now, this building is in the ground already, and at street level. It's more alive at this point that any of the massive office towers planned in Midtown, and we're not killing off any of those yet.

Patience has always been the order when dealing with this rebuilding, we should all know that by now.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

These towers, along with Manhattan West and 15 Penn, all will be built. It's just a matter of when. Manhattan needs new office space.

I hope that's true but that sounds a bit too optomistic, I like to be more realistic.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

I like to be more realistic.

Then act like it. Realisticly speaking means no one can say at this point exactly when these towers will be built. It also means no one can say for certain that they won't. However, the smart person would bet on New York getting the new office space.

[Zapatan]

Well since the cranes for 2WTC have been removed, it's obvious no one gives a **** about this project getting completed which is freaking pathetic. We have every right to be furious about this whole rebuilding process, the US government could help out if they wanted. Talk about lack of patriotism.

The US government could learn a lesson or two from China and put up a few massive towers without making it way freaking too complicated.

In short, there is absolutely ZERO, I reapeat Z.E.R.O. reasons why these buildings aren't already gleaming on the skyline... it's enfuriating and pathetic, those in charge should be punished SEVERLY for their selfishness and stupidity, it makes me sick with rage.

[Towersteve]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Well since the cranes for 2WTC have been removed, it's obvious no one gives a **** about this project getting completed which is freaking pathetic. We have every right to be furious about this whole rebuilding process, the US government could help out if they wanted. Talk about lack of patriotism.

The US government could learn a lesson or two from China and put up a few massive towers without making it way freaking too complicated.

In short, there is absolutely ZERO, I reapeat Z.E.R.O. reasons why these buildings aren't already gleaming on the skyline... it's enfuriating and pathetic, those in charge should be punished SEVERLY for their selfishness and stupidity, it makes me sick with rage.

I completely agree. Not to mention the Port Authority just raised tolls from $8 to $12 for the GW Bridge and Lincoln Tunnel with the excuse of funding ground zero rebuilding. The insurance issue has been settled. Unlike the other projects in New York this has to do with national prestige.

[fimiak]

This is a private building on private property. The government has absolutely no business in influencing or financing this project. Larry Silverstein could pay for this tower entirely out of his own pocket if he wanted, but he is being a wise old man and waiting for a time when he knows he can earn even more profit, and have the entire thing paid for by others. This tower is the pinnacle of shrewd business planning, and should be understood as that, and not some sort of collective failure for the US government or economy.

It's a far better model for construction than China, which is in the midst of a real estate bubble that even the central government admits to. Newly wealthy in China want to put their money in real estate because they don't have many other safe investment opportunities domestically.


There also seems to be this perception that a slowed down 2WTC is somehow bad for the United States and New York. This is the wrong idea. A billion+ dollar building with no tenants is far worse for the United States and New York. If you still disagree, just consider, a government funded building without move-in ready tenants is a waste of government money, and a drag on other government spending needs. A full booked building on this site, built because demand makes it a profitable venture, means a booming economy and a functioning market. Which side of the economy would you prefer this building represent?

[Towersteve]

Originally Posted by fimiak

This is a private building on private property. The government has absolutely no business in influencing or financing this project. Larry Silverstein could pay for this tower entirely out of his own pocket if he wanted, but he is being a wise old man and waiting for a time when he knows he can earn even more profit, and have the entire thing paid for by others. This tower is the pinnacle of shrewd business planning, and should be understood as that, and not some sort of collective failure for the US government or economy.

It's a far better model for construction than China, which is in the midst of a real estate bubble that even the central government admits to. Newly wealthy in China want to put their money in real estate because they don't have many other safe investment opportunities domestically.


There also seems to be this perception that a slowed down 2WTC is somehow bad for the United States and New York. This is the wrong idea. A billion+ dollar building with no tenants is far worse for the United States and New York. If you still disagree, just consider, a government funded building without move-in ready tenants is a waste of government money, and a drag on other government spending needs. A full booked building on this site, built because demand makes it a profitable venture, means a booming economy and a functioning market. Which side of the economy would you prefer this building represent?

It's a complex arrangement that is in part funded by the Port Authority. That's part of their reasoning for raising tolls.
From Businessweek 8/19/11:
"The additional money will fund the agency’s 10-year, $25.1 billion capital program and help pay for rebuilding the World Trade Center."

[fimiak]

2WTC is not the Port Authority's. 1WTC is. The PA is only partially responsible for the below-grade portion, and that is because it is integrated with the VSC and Transit Hub. The above ground portion of 2WTC is entirely Silverstein's, and therefore it is entirely his call that the base has now been stopped. These plans have been in place for more than a year anyhow, I am not sure why everyone seems surprised. The crane is going down because it is not needed to lift any more steel, that does not mean that concrete and all of the utilities have stopped or will stop soon.

[Dale]

So, basically there was nothing to the rumor that Silverstein had good news to report, shortly, on 2 and 3 ?

[Towersteve]

Originally Posted by fimiak

2WTC is not the Port Authority's. 1WTC is. The PA is only partially responsible for the below-grade portion, and that is because it is integrated with the VSC and Transit Hub. The above ground portion of 2WTC is entirely Silverstein's, and therefore it is entirely his call that the base has now been stopped. These plans have been in place for more than a year anyhow, I am not sure why everyone seems surprised. The crane is going down because it is not needed to lift any more steel, that does not mean that concrete and all of the utilities have stopped or will stop soon.

Yep the agreement is that Silverstein can build the tower when he feels market conditions dictate it. I'm frustrated because a lot of public money is going into this without a lot of progress. Curbed said in 2009 that Silverstein has been trying to get The PA to finance towers 2 and 3. On 8/26/11 Silverstein and the PA agreed to financing on already under construction 4 WTC and 3 WTC. I'm not sure what the status is on 2 WTC as far as financing goes but the PA owns the site while Silverstein is only leasing it. I'm sure the PA is or will be on the hook for some of that money for 2 WTC as well.

[giantSwan]

Originally Posted by Don098

I agree, but it doesn't work that way. Even though developers may have the personal capital to physically erect these towers without securing anchor tenants and subsequent bank finances, they never will take that kind of risk. What if something happens to ruin the allure of NYC, and the real estate market comes back down to earth? Anything can happen, and it's naive and closed-mind to believe anything otherwise...

I don't agree with RobertWapole that the economy will be in great shape 5-6 years from now. There are no indications to me that the middle class is strengthening, that quality jobs are being created, that we as a country are beginning to PRODUCE goods rather than CONSUME them, that our education system is producing and RETAINING the world's top talent, that the US is ready to take risks and think innovatively again, and to invest in science instead of political doctrine. The macro economy is in extraordinarily bad shape, and NYC is merely surviving on it's own bubble of capital that has been allowed to balloon to stupid proportions. If I were a developer, I'd be operating in a very conservative manner, and SIlverstein is already assuming risk by building these tower's podiums without financing.

With that said, the demand for real estate in NYC is still greater than in any other part of the country, and the question is not if, but when these buildings will be built. Whether or not they'll be built as currently designed will become a more relevant question as time goes on...

Well put, and I agree 100%

[QuarterMileSidewalk]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Well since the cranes for 2WTC have been removed, it's obvious no one gives a **** about this project getting completed which is freaking pathetic. We have every right to be furious about this whole rebuilding process, the US government could help out if they wanted. Talk about lack of patriotism.

The US government could learn a lesson or two from China and put up a few massive towers without making it way freaking too complicated.

In short, there is absolutely ZERO, I reapeat Z.E.R.O. reasons why these buildings aren't already gleaming on the skyline... it's enfuriating and pathetic, those in charge should be punished SEVERLY for their selfishness and stupidity, it makes me sick with rage.

There are lots of good reasons, actually. That would be almost the exact same mistake that was made in constructing the original World Trade Center. Spending, for purely political/nationalistic and emotional reasons, billions of dollars in tax funds to construct millions of square feet of new office space when the demand is not quite there would further depress demand, and could drive the local office market into stagnation. Make no mistake about it: the Chinese model of subsidizing real estate development outside of supply and demand constraints will come crashing down hard, similarly to how the subsidizing of subprime mortgages has damaged our own economy.

A skyscraper, no matter how pretty it is, is fundamentally just a machine for people to live and/or work in, in greater density than would ordinarily be possible. It should never, ever be built for purely emotional reasons; only economically justifiable ones. If the perceived risks to the builder who has the capital outweigh the potential profits, then there is no rational reason to build the tower at that time. Sorry if anyone feels upset about that, but maybe you would like to risk your time and money on a speculative office skyscraper in a time of economic uncertainty, and save Mr. Silverstein the trouble?

Originally Posted by fimiak

This is a private building on private property. The government has absolutely no business in influencing or financing this project. Larry Silverstein could pay for this tower entirely out of his own pocket if he wanted, but he is being a wise old man and waiting for a time when he knows he can earn even more profit, and have the entire thing paid for by others. This tower is the pinnacle of shrewd business planning, and should be understood as that, and not some sort of collective failure for the US government or economy.

It's a far better model for construction than China, which is in the midst of a real estate bubble that even the central government admits to. Newly wealthy in China want to put their money in real estate because they don't have many other safe investment opportunities domestically.


There also seems to be this perception that a slowed down 2WTC is somehow bad for the United States and New York. This is the wrong idea. A billion+ dollar building with no tenants is far worse for the United States and New York. If you still disagree, just consider, a government funded building without move-in ready tenants is a waste of government money, and a drag on other government spending needs. A full booked building on this site, built because demand makes it a profitable venture, means a booming economy and a functioning market. Which side of the economy would you prefer this building represent?

Exactly.

[STR]

Originally Posted by fimiak

This is a private building on private property.

Actually, it's a private building with public areas, all built on public property.

A complex legal mess, by any account.