Couple of house questions regarding new house builds in Edmonton

[jadeddog]

I am from Regina, but we are considering moving to Edmonton/St.Albert/Sherwood Park in the next year or so. I have been poking around at houses online to see what we can get for how much, find areas I think I will like, etc. I have noticed a few things that are rather strange, and was hoping for some help.

Just for reference, I've been looking primarily at house in the $500-600k range, and concentrating on newer builds (say 2008+).

1. All the houses seem to have siding, rather than stucco. In Regina, stucco on houses above $450 or so is pretty standard. I've increased my upper range to $700k to see if it was just a price-point thing, that I have been noticing the same thing with those more expensive houses as well. Does anybody know why stucco seems to be so rare in the Edmonton region?

2. Most houses seem to have "window wells" (not sure of the exact name) for the basement window. This is where there is some corrugated metal that create a hole around a basement window, where the window wouldn't have enough ground clearance on its own. Again, this is really rare for new builds in Regina, usually the basement is built high enough that the windows have lots of clearance. Same question as above really, is this just a price point thing? I haven't been able to tell if this exists on the more expensive houses.

Thanks for any input.

[noodlenoodle]

Stucco isn't really seen as "upmarket" here & I believe the zoning in Edmonton encourages the main floor to be as close to ground level as possible to facilitate the maximum amount of ceiling height on the above-ground floors inside the envelope.

[Hardhatdan]

The basement has to be below the frost line. That likely impacts the depth of basement. In Saskatoon the housing seems very similar to Edmonton.

[noodlenoodle]

Frost line is basically the same here as it is in Saskatchewan, at least on the maps I've seen, like this one (though I admit it's based on old data).

[jadeddog]

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

The basement has to be below the frost line. That likely impacts the depth of basement. In Saskatoon the housing seems very similar to Edmonton.

That is the case in Regina as well. The frost line in Regina would be roughly the same as Edmonton (which seems to be backed up by that map that noodlenoodle posted).

I've never noticed this in Saskatoon. I seem to recall more stucco houses there, similar to Regina, although I've never purposefully looked for this. Next time I'm in Saskatoon I'll make a mental note.

[jadeddog]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Stucco isn't really seen as "upmarket" here & I believe the zoning in Edmonton encourages the main floor to be as close to ground level as possible to facilitate the maximum amount of ceiling height on the above-ground floors inside the envelope.

Really? So if I had a house with siding vs the same house, but with stucco, I wouldn't be asking more for it? Weird. That is a $10,000 (at minimum) difference in Regina.

Yeah, that makes sense about the maximum height for floors. Does that mean that 9' basements aren't very common though in Edmonton? It is very, very common for the higher end houses in Regina in the past 3-5 years to have 9' ceilings in the basement. I've come to just kinda expect them once you are spending a certain amount of money.

[hilman]

Are the houses in Regina that you are referring to 2 story houses? Two story houses here typically have their basements low into the ground (as do bungalows). Houses with larger windows in the basement that aren't as deep in the ground are usually bi-levels or a raised bungalows.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by jadeddog

Really? So if I had a house with siding vs the same house, but with stucco, I wouldn't be asking more for it? Weird. That is a $10,000 (at minimum) difference in Regina.

I can't speak to A<->B pricing, but generally stucco is seen as the "cheap & ugly" alternative, at least in the age range you're looking for. It was more fashionable here prior to the timeframe you're interested in but definitely not in the last decade or so. I'm in the planning stages of building a house & there'll be zero stucco if I have my way.

Originally Posted by jadeddog

Yeah, that makes sense about the maximum height for floors. Does that mean that 9' basements aren't very common though in Edmonton? It is very, very common for the higher end houses in Regina in the past 3-5 years to have 9' ceilings in the basement. I've come to just kinda expect them once you are spending a certain amount of money.

You'll still see the same ceiling heights, but the whole house will be sitting lower in the dirt. I've got a couple friends living in newer communities in the SW who both have 9' ceilings in their basements, along with window wells. There's a pretty low limit on the max height of a residential building in much of Edmonton & to get the high ceilings in above-ground (on two-storey houses) the whole foundation goes a bit lower than what you're describing in Regina.

[jadeddog]

Originally Posted by hilman

Are the houses in Regina that you are referring to 2 story houses? Two story houses here typically have their basements low into the ground (as do bungalows). Houses with larger windows in the basement that aren't as deep in the ground are usually bi-levels or a raised bungalows.

The higher basements are more common with the bungalows, but they are very common on 2 story houses as well once you get to a certain price point. I honestly can't think of the last show home I've seen with window wells, although admittedly I'm not really looking for them.

[jadeddog]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

I can't speak to A<->B pricing, but generally stucco is seen as the "cheap & ugly" alternative, at least in the age range you're looking for. It was more fashionable here prior to the timeframe you're interested in but definitely not in the last decade or so. I'm in the planning stages of building a house & there'll be zero stucco if I have my way.



You'll still see the same ceiling heights, but the whole house will be sitting lower in the dirt. I've got a couple friends living in newer communities in the SW who both have 9' ceilings in their basements, along with window wells. There's a pretty low limit on the max height of a residential building in much of Edmonton & to get the high ceilings in above-ground (on two-storey houses) the whole foundation goes a bit lower than what you're describing in Regina.

Sounds like the difference for basement windows might be the building codes then?

Very interesting about stucco. Odd that the perception of it is so different, given how close the two cities are and the type of people living in each city.

Thanks for the information. It is greatly appreciated!

[noodlenoodle]

Zoning more than code I think, but I'm just a layperson who's been planning an infill build in Edmonton. There's some pros on the forum who might be able to share their expertise.

[kcantor]

there's nothing inherently wrong with window wells per se but they do require a bit more attention be paid to grading and drainage including the weeping tile which the wells drain to.

if there are going to be bedrooms in the basement you need to make sure the windows and the wells are dimensioned to be acceptable secondary exits.

if the basement is unfinished, you also want to make sure the windows and the wells (or at least one of them) is dimensioned and accessible enough (particularly from a side yard) so that you can get a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood or drywall through it to allow for future development.

[SHOFEAR]

You guys are mostly incorrect about window wells. ken's the only one who is warm.

Window wells are typically a function of the water table. Areas with high water tables do not usually permit window wells as their impact on the storm system can add up by the constant pumping of sump pumps into the system. Constant pumping, connected to municipal systems...something most municipalities will try to avoid.

in a suburban development context, most builders prefer window wells, it make a more efficient design by avoiding excessive interior stairs and a front landing, especially if their is a limit on the number of exterior risers permitted in the neighborhood by a developer. having 14 stairs from the sidewalk to the front door looks like shit.

In mature neighborhoods you typically have really shitty lot grading. It's a huge liability when buying a house. How many hundreds of millions is the city planning on spending to fix drainage issues in older neighborhoods to avoid entire neighborhoods having flooded basements during massive storms? Yet somehow people still think new development is a burden on the tax base. lol.

[Albicaulis]

If you're looking at newer builds (2008+) the vast majority will be vinyl siding. This goes from entry-level town homes to estate homes. Most builders in Edmonton will offer alternative exteriors like hardie board or acrylic based stucco, stone accents, etc. I moved from Ontario where it's typically all brick exteriors, and I can't emphasize how much I hate the vinyl, but it is what the market offers.

Good luck on your house hunting!

[sdimedru]

Originally Posted by Albicaulis

If you're looking at newer builds (2008+) the vast majority will be vinyl siding. This goes from entry-level town homes to estate homes. Most builders in Edmonton will offer alternative exteriors like hardie board or acrylic based stucco, stone accents, etc. I moved from Ontario where it's typically all brick exteriors, and I can't emphasize how much I hate the vinyl, but it is what the market offers.

Good luck on your house hunting!

Agreed. I think the Hardie board is now considered the upgraded siding choice.

[jadeddog]

Originally Posted by sdimedru

Agreed. I think the Hardie board is now considered the upgraded siding choice.

This is just so, so, so weird to me. Hardie board doesn't "crack" and "break" like vinyl does, but it requires re-application of paint. Whereas stucco, or brick, does not require any maintenance at all (more or less anyhow).

I'm not arguing with you, hardie is an upgrade and costs more. But the other options are almost infinity superior in every regard other than color choice and cost. Very strange.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by jadeddog

This is just so, so, so weird to me. Hardie board doesn't "crack" and "break" like vinyl does, but it requires re-application of paint. Whereas stucco, or brick, does not require any maintenance at all (more or less anyhow).

I'm not arguing with you, hardie is an upgrade and costs more. But the other options are almost infinity superior in every regard other than color choice and cost. Very strange.

stucco will also sun fade from uv exposure and need regular repainting (particularly darker colours).

vinyl siding will also sun fade from uv exposure and can't be repainted without resorting to special (and expensive) paints.

brick won't need repainting but the mortar will require regular inspections and repair/repointing as required.

you also need to remember that edmonton is quite a bit further north than regina and is also quite a bit higher in elevation than regina, both of which will increase/accelerate sun-fading, particularly on south elevations.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by jadeddog

This is just so, so, so weird to me. Hardie board doesn't "crack" and "break" like vinyl does, but it requires re-application of paint. Whereas stucco, or brick, does not require any maintenance at all (more or less anyhow).

I'm not arguing with you, hardie is an upgrade and costs more. But the other options are almost infinity superior in every regard other than color choice and cost. Very strange.

My S. Edmonton house, built in 2011/12, is acrylic stucco as are all my neighbours' houses. It was the architectureal standard for the general area, but only a block away there is mixture of houses clad with vinyl siding, Hardie board, stucco and even brick. There are estate houses in the city that have vinyl siding, but I don't think there are any newer houses below $600k which have stucco exteriors, or at least it would be rare. Anyway, houses in Terwiilgear Gardens, Magrath and MacTaggart have a variety exterior finishes. GL with your search.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Jaws

My S. Edmonton house, built in 2011/12, is acrylic stucco as are all my neighbours' houses. It was the architectureal standard for the general area, but only a block away there is mixture of houses clad with vinyl siding, Hardie board, stucco and even brick. There are estate houses in the city that have vinyl siding, but I don't think there are any newer houses below $600k which have stucco exteriors, or at least it would be rare. Anyway, houses in Terwiilgear Gardens, Magrath and MacTaggart have a variety exterior finishes. GL with your search.

You're correct, houses priced between $550-750k will typically have a variety of exterior materials with vinyl siding being the majority with masonry/stone on the front elevation and use of nicer cementboard/wood trims around the window and door frames. All stucco will be limited in that pricing category. $750k and up you'll see more all stucco and higher end materials homes - masonry, cement/fiber board, etc.