Is the era of new MLB ballparks coming to an end?

[peanut gallery]

Originally Posted by brickell

The new logo, thew new team colors

I'm with you on these especially. Not to mention that hideous, seizure-inducing thing they're building to celebrate HRs. The current colors, logo, uniform, etc are nice. They should have stuck with it.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by brickell

The new logo, thew new team colors, the poor design of said garages, the fact that they've been advertising that the roof will basically be closed for every game... plus some personal stuff means I won't be able see many if any games at the new stadium, puts a bit of sour grapes onto it.

i was looking more for specific architectural criticisms of the new ballpark itself, not ancillary stuff like team logos or parking garages.

why are they going through the exorbitant expense of building a retractable roof stadium if they just intend to leave it closed all the time? don't they know that indoor baseball sucks ass.

[bobdreamz]

^ I heard that the roof will be closed about 70% of the time not 100% of the time but that is speculation at this point. It rains everyday in Miami during the summer but I really don't believe it will be closed that much as has been reported in the media. Just look at what happened to last night's World Series game.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i was looking more for specific architectural criticisms of the new ballpark itself, not ancillary stuff like team logos or parking garages.

why are they going through the exorbitant expense of building a retractable roof stadium if they just intend to leave it closed all the time? don't they know that indoor baseball sucks ass.

No, they apparently do not know that. But we will see how it pans out. To be honest, the rest of it I just don't know enough about, I haven't been in it yet. As for the parking garages, they're pretty imposing and really block off the stadium from the surrounding neighborhood. They're part and parcel of the stadium, so you can't really compare one without the other.

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

^ I heard that the roof will be closed about 70% of the time not 100% of the time but that is speculation at this point. It rains everyday in Miami during the summer but I really don't believe it will be closed that much as has been reported in the media. Just look at what happened to last night's World Series game.

I'm just going by what David Sampson has said and that they advertise that each game will be an air conditioned 75 degrees. I just don't' see how that will be possible for even 85% of the games if the roof is open. I really abhor indoor baseball too.

[mhays]

If it's 80+ and humid, I'd sure as hell want to be in air conditioning.

Hell, if it's 70 and not humid but in the sun, I'd want shade. How people can sit in the sun is beyond me.

Seattle has a retractable roof though it's just an "umbrella" and not an enclosure. We don't use the roof very often and even then it's often just for a short time -- Seattle gets a fraction of Miami's summer rain -- but during the shoulder seasons in particular, it gives people reassurance beforehand, when they'd otherwise wonder if the game might get cancelled and might get rained on.

Two of my favorite things about baseball are the designated hitter rule, which above all reduces the substitutions of the boring NL game, and never, ever getting rained out.

On that note, back when we had NBA in Seattle, one of those games was rained out. Somewhat unusual.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mhays

How people can sit in the sun is beyond me.

Easy. Copious amounts of ice cold Old Style.


i went to an indoor baseball game once at the old metrodome. it was the worst experience of my life, like going to a funeral for a dozen children. i hope never to repeat it.

[mhays]

We used to have one of those here too, only without the Metrodome's charm. I went to a handful of games there. A horrible facility. But not all bad.

[arkhitektor]

I'm sure this isn't supposed to be its most flattering view, but good lord, it looks like a spaceship landed in a residential neighborhood.

[mhays]

True. When the roof comes toward you it must be like Independence Day.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

now that most teams have built proper baseball-only stadiums for themselves, i find it hard to believe that many of them are going to be clamoring for new facilities in the next several decades, not to mention the fact that the public has become increasingly antagonistic towards using public money to fund new sports stadiums.

i truly believe that marlins park, and whatever new stadiums might get built for the A's and Rays, will be the last new MLB stadiums to be built for quite some time, with the obvious exception of possible expansion teams.

well, with the news that the braves will be leaving turner field after only 20 seasons and moving to a new stadium facility out in the burbs of atlanta, i guess it's time for me to eat crow from this quote of mine several years ago.

i really didn't think that we'd be seeing stadium replacements from the retro-park era this early. i'm quite surprised, to be honest.

[OhioGuy]

So happy to be living in DC where I can hop on Metro to catch a game at Nationals Park as opposed to living in Atlanta and being stuck driving along the interstates out to the suburbs to catch a ball game. Meanwhile the Falcons are scheduled to get a new stadium on the edge of downtown in 2017, which to me seems the opposite of what should be happening. A much more used baseball stadium should be downtown, while a less used football stadium should be occupying space in the burbs.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

^ I heard that the roof will be closed about 70% of the time not 100% of the time but that is speculation at this point. It rains everyday in Miami during the summer but I really don't believe it will be closed that much as has been reported in the media. Just look at what happened to last night's World Series game.

just remember that david samson and jeff loria are two of the biggest assholes that exist outside of the black holes in the known universe.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

A much more used baseball stadium should be downtown, while a less used football stadium should be occupying space in the burbs.

This statement is correct if you're counting only the baseball and NFL football games at each staduim. Turner Field has basically one purpose, baseball. The new Falcons stadium will be used for football (NFL and high school championship/college/bowl games), concerts, trade shows and conventions, graduations, motorcross/tractor pull/monster truck, a proposed MLS team, Final Four and countless other events needing a large open space. It is expected to be used 200+ days per year as opposed to baseball's 81.

[Matthew]

With each new ballpark, things were improved. Newer technology was used, architects found new ways to generate revenue, new luxury seating ideas were introduced, and architects found new ways to entertain fans. A ballpark from 20 years ago may be nowhere near the league average. You may need more room to add the latest seats or some new luxury feature to keep up. It's reached the point where a 20 year old ballpark can become outdated.

[mhays]

Two words:

1. Renovation.

2. Plastics.

[Matthew]

So you're competitors ballparks have concourses that allow you to see the game from anywhere. Your ballpark doesn't. Your competitors ballparks have found a way to allow you to watch the players on the field, while ordering your food (without TVs!). Your concessions are along the outer wall of the concourse and maybe part of those concession walls are load bearing? Maybe you want a party area behind the outfield wall, like competitors, but you don't have the room without closing the street and demolishing that entire section of the ballpark... within 5-6 months.

Changing seats with similar seats, maybe an upgraded videoboard, or new lights is something you can renovate easily. Renovations that are half the cost of a new ballpark on a facility that isn't historic can be seen as not worth it. Just as a ballpark built in 1974 was outdated and in need of replacement in 1991, an old ballpark, built in the early-to-mid 1990s that is among the league's oldest today can easily find itself in need of replacement. I think Turner Field was ahead of it's time in many ways, but the new ballpark will catch-up again with some very expensive upgrades. And as our cities change from the suburban 1990s to the we love our cities 2010s, our ballparks are changing to have access to transit and mixed-use development, as a big part of ballpark design. Abundant surface parking, maybe a suburban location like the Rangers have, or a site that must be near highway exits so fans can go the park and leave as soon as possible, without really taking in the city, could fade away into ballpark history books.

In a world where 20-25 years does seem to be the lifespan of a ballpark, it's amazing to see truly historic ballparks still in use. Though I'm sure they make expenditures on the old facilities that many would think are too extreme, if not for the history involved. However, if we don't allow a facility to connect with fans, we may never have another like that. I think Baltimore's can stay in use long enough to become one of those historic ballparks that see major upgrades near the half the cost of replacement, just to keep the history. Turner Field was looking at what... $200-250 million in renovations? That is around half the cost of replacement and I wouldn't doubt it if the Braves haven't already spent over $100 million on renovations already? Why not use Cobb County to get a good deal on a site near Olympic Park in Atlanta and build a new ballpark near attractions, transit, mixed-use development, and thousands of tourists. It's also a site fans have a better opinion of. I would say most fans don't like the location of Turner Field.

No need to build a mixed-use village around a ballpark that may not do well for 5-6 months of the year. No need to extend greater transit options to it. No concerns over trying to attract people to the ballpark before games and keep them there after the game. Transit, housing, hotels, parking, attractions, and people are already at the Olympic Park site.

As you can tell, I think the Braves are using Cobb County, just as the Falcons used DeKalb County and the Braves will locate near the Georgia Aquarium and College Football Hall of Fame, with a close and dramatic skyline view. You'll see the SkyView wheel and Westin Peachtree Center during commercial breaks. Tourists will have all of their attractions in one place, reducing traffic. The Ted is an example of how we (nationally) did things in the 1990s. Our cities are different today and the next wave of new ballparks will take advantage of all the changes our cities have made and our changing tastes.

[ardecila]

I just don't understand how we can accept such rampant levels of government spending on a private enterprise. A 20 year replacement cycle is absolutely absurd. No private company would do this kind of wasteful spending - it can only happen on the backs of taxpayers.

Something is fundamentally broken when the only uncontroversial strategy for urban development is to spend nearly a billion dollars to benefit a private corporation. It was one thing in the era of multi-purpose stadiums - they sucked for the fans, but at least cities got their money's worth by scheduling multiple sports teams and using land efficiently. Now that every team needs their own stadium to "brand", it's gotten absolutely out of control.

[nomarandlee]

I agree. I really hate to be so draconian as to outlaw such practices but it has become such an extortion racket and a drain on municipal coffers that I wish somehow such funding would be outlawed. Or at least limit the percentage or confine it to infrastructural work around the stadiums. Constitutionally I'm guessing such laws would be on shaky ground.

Ideally I would like to see to see any team stadiums that got funding in the last 30 years to be exempt from funding. Any teams that haven't had such funding in the last 30 years could be grand fathered in to receive such funding given that it is a serious competitive disadvantage potentially to not receive such aid that other teams have had.

[ardecila]

Cities are free to screw themselves over; I don't expect the Federal gov't to step in. The problem is that so many cities have made this same stupid mistake and more continue to do so. It's gotten so bad that if one city balks at the cost, its suburbs and even other cities are waiting in the wings to screw themselves financially for very little gain.

I applaud Emanuel for reaching a deal with the Cubs that does not by and large rely on taxpayer money. Taxpayers will be contributing portions of city right-of-way and other infrastructural upgrades but the bulk of the stadium renovation will be financed by the Cubs through increased ad revenue. That's not really a typical case, though, since Wrigley is so iconic (and it's part of the team's business success, frankly) the Cubs could not credibly threaten to leave.

[Steely Dan]

here are some newish renderings of the braves new suburban stadium.


source: http://mlb.si.com/2014/05/14/atlanta...s-cobb-county/


source: http://mlb.si.com/2014/05/14/atlanta...s-cobb-county/





by building way out in the burbs, the braves really are bucking the trend of the last quarter century in a big way. since the new era of stadium construction that began in 1991 with new comiskey park in chicago, all but one of the new MLB stadiums have been built in downtown/downtown-adjacent locations or at least in core city locations within several miles of downtown.



U.S. Cellular Field - Chicago, Illinois - core city

Oriole Park at Camden Yards - Baltimore, Maryland - downtown/downtown adjacent

Globe Life Park in Arlington - Arlington, Texas - suburban

Progressive Field - Cleveland, Ohio - downtown/downtown adjacent

Coors Field - Denver, Colorado - downtown/downtown adjacent

Turner Field - Atlanta, Georgia - core city

Chase Field - Phoenix, Arizona - downtown/downtown adjacent

Safeco Field - Seattle, Washington - downtown/downtown adjacent

AT&T Park - San Francisco, California - downtown/downtown adjacent

Comerica Park - Detroit, Michigan - downtown/downtown adjacent

Minute Maid Park - Houston, Texas - downtown/downtown adjacent

Miller Park - Milwaukee, Wisconsin - core city

PNC Park - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - downtown/downtown adjacent

Great American Ball Park - Cincinnati, Ohio - downtown/downtown adjacent

Citizens Bank Park - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - core city

Petco Park - San Diego, California - downtown/downtown adjacent

Busch Stadium - St. Louis, Missouri - downtown/downtown adjacent

Nationals Park - Washington, D.C. - core city

Citi Field - New York City, New York - core city

Yankee Stadium - New York City, New York - core city

Target Field - Minneapolis, Minnesota - downtown/downtown adjacent

Marlins Park - Miami, Florida - core city