National Capital Region Beer News

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The "big players" (in beer) are large multinational corporations with a monopoly (who btw export their profits out of the country), so trying to defend that model is just a tad difficult.

I honestly don't think LCBO employees are "better trained" to handle the underage problem. One of my last visits to LCBO directly in front of me there was a very young "rough looking" person who was asked for ID. He said, "is a Passport ok?" (like really.. a shady looking young person is carrying around a Passport as his only ID?) Anyway, I saw the passport had a cut-off corner (i.e. it was expired.. and in all likelihood doctored), but the clerk didn't question it at all. I mentioned this to the clerk, and he just gave me a "so what" kind of look.

Anything after LCBO expenses goes to the government... correct. However, money from public to government is a TAX (just by another name). LCBO employees work for the government... so it's just a "hidden" tax.

Anyway, my point remains. I have seen little, if any, evidence that all the bureaucracy (and huge costs and "inconvenience" to the public) around liquor sales in Ontario and Quebec are worth the expense (and most of the world agrees btw, except Sweden and perhaps a few other countries and provinces). It's just another transfer of funds from the public to the government, with very little gain to the public in general.

Agreed that it is hard to defend the Beer Store now that it is foreign owned. I just meant that with that model, it is much easier for the government to mandate giving shelf space to micro brews, which it does.

It's a matter of perspective, but I don't buy that the expenses of a revenue-generating corporation that provides a service to the public is a hidden tax. If it is truly more expensive to run than a private sector network, then maybe you could argue some of their expenses are a tax, but I've seen nothing to suggest that there is a great additional cost doing it the way we do. Transportation and regulation (licensing and inspection) are two obvious areas where the private model is going to be more expensive, without the public good benefit of profit going to the government and a really strong recycling program.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed that it is hard to defend the Beer Store now that it is foreign owned. I just meant that with that model, it is much easier for the government to mandate giving shelf space to micro brews, which it does.

It's a matter of perspective, but I don't buy that the expenses of a revenue-generating corporation that provides a service to the public is a hidden tax. If it is truly more expensive to run than a private sector network, then maybe you could argue some of their expenses are a tax, but I've seen nothing to suggest that there is a great additional cost doing it the way we do. Transportation and regulation (licensing and inspection) are two obvious areas where the private model is going to be more expensive, without the public good benefit of profit going to the government and a really strong recycling program.

A non-trivial real estate footprint (LCBO and Beer Store) in some pretty prime locations, combined with unionized government employees is definitely, by any definition, a "great additional cost". Honestly, Walmart has a pretty good selection here.. including local craft beers. Just don't expect high end wines and spirits

My point still remains.. just dump the ENTIRE bureaucracy... and add a 100% (or whatever) sales tax to booze. Ontario gets its money, and the public is not any worse off. What is wrong with this model?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

My point still remains.. just dump the ENTIRE bureaucracy... and add a 100% (or whatever) sales tax to booze. Ontario gets its money, and the public is not any worse off. What is wrong with this model?

Are you suggesting that the sale of alcohol wouldn't be regulated at all (i.e. anyone could sell it without a license and no one would check if they are selling to minors or inebriated people)? That's the only way you would have no bureaucracy. Not sure most people would be willing to go that far, as there are pretty solid reasons for regulating. Also, tax collection ain't free.

As for unionized employees, I'm okay with paying a bit more for alcohol so people actually make a decent living. Expanding the minimum wage economy isn't a gain for society in my opinion.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Are you suggesting that the sale of alcohol wouldn't be regulated at all (i.e. anyone could sell it without a license and no one would check if they are selling to minors or inebriated people)? That's the only way you would have no bureaucracy. Not sure most people would be willing to go that far, as there are pretty solid reasons for regulating. Also, tax collection ain't free.

Well.. anyone can walk into any gas station in Ontario and buy cigarettes. What controls are there around that? Yes.. there is some bureaucracy (and costs) but is it really a big stretch to extend that to alcohol? There are of course responsibility concerns, but my point remains…. And I reemphasize that the very valid concerns regarding underage and inappropriate sales really aren’t an issue here…. So what do all those very expensive regulations get us in the end? Again, underage drinking and alcoholism are no different here than Ontario.

If there are such solid reasons for regulating, I’m simply pointing out that I’ve lived in the opposite side of that for 4 years now.. and there doesn’t seem to be any concern from anyone living in that environment.

Originally Posted by phil235

As for unionized employees, I'm okay with paying a bit more for alcohol so people actually make a decent living. Expanding the minimum wage economy isn't a gain for society in my opinion.

That’s of course a very slippery slope. Why not unionize, regulate, and make grocery and restaurant employees public sector workers for a start.. so everyone makes a “living” wage?

[AuxTown]

I see no value add when it comes to the beer store monopoly. They sell me a selection of brands (mostly owned by them) and the product is nowhere near as complicated as wine. LCBO, on the other hand, has a lot of upside. They are the largest purchaser of alcohol in the world by $$ and the 3rd largest by volume (behind Walmart and Costco). As a result, they have a massive team of wine consultants, sommeliers, and tasters. They are able to curate an amazing variety of products and can (though I don't know if they do) negotiate very good prices due to the size of their orders. I find it frustrating buying wine in the US as I never know who are the reputable stores and often find myself disappointed in their offerings. Anyway, if both disappeared, I would hope that Costco would start selling beer and wine in Ontario. At least it would be cheap!

[harls]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Anyway, if both disappeared, I would hope that Costco would start selling beer and wine in Ontario. At least it would be cheap!

At the Gatineau Costco, I don't find their beer and wine offerings that much cheaper than the grocery store. There is probably a minimum price they can charge by law.

[LDROttawa]

Not sure if folks saw it, but Good Prospects Brewing Company is closing. I'm not completely surprised - a saturated market, rising costs, and less disposable income due to inflation is hitting the industry hard. Not to mention, their beer wasn't always consistent. I don't think this will be the last local brewery closure over the next year.

From their Facebook page:

It's with a heavy heart we are announcing our final weekend as Good Prospects Brewing. The doors are going to close for a little while, but something new and exciting will take our place.

The support and love from the community has been fantastic and we will miss seeing you all at the tap room. As we turn the page on this chapter we hope you'll welcome the new team that will be brewing in the days to come.
Cheers! 🍻

Our last day will be Saturday November 25. Open 1-10pm.