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  #16521  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 5:13 AM
xymox xymox is offline
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btw...

Downtown PHX as viewed from the airport looks amazing right now. You can see at least 8 of the cranes up - once the Hines crane goes taller it'll look even better...
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  #16522  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 8:43 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
We know you don't want more parking but the reality is that it's a necessary evil. You'll have to accept it.

I'm sure the garage in the rendering is shown in a way to make it obvious that's a garage. I've never seen one open like that.
The Hines proposal actually had more parking spaces (909 to Berger's 526). It looks like they are using cable barriers instead of concrete when you look at the proposal (Page 37):



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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
I seen a garage opened like that in Miami Beach, I thought at the time it was pretty cool looking.
Let's just hope that our wonderful Phoenix drivers don't do the same thing that happened in Austin a few years ago!



All in all I like the Hine's version better. The Berger design looks cheaper and not as attractive IMO. However, it's what I've come to expect from the Phoenix City Council: pick the cheaper, less inspired versions when it comes to RFP's. Hine's proposal even has more construction related and permanent jobs than Berger's.

Last edited by RichTempe; Feb 14, 2020 at 10:21 AM.
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  #16523  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 9:57 AM
ChaseM ChaseM is offline
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The Berger design is blah... I love Hines proposal as it's architecturally more appealing from the street to the buildings crown IMO, not so boxy as you mentioned. Definitely a game changer, but as usual the city council goes for the bleaker blander design (not surprising).

Berger besides being bland IMO definitely sends the wrong message as the garage is very pronounced in it's design, think Marina City in Chicago. It basically SCREAMS DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE, not WALK. The other issue I have is the cable barriers more for safety reasons. A small child could easily climb over or even fit through them depending on the final spacing between the cables which is certainly a very scary scenario.
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  #16524  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 10:24 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseM View Post
The Berger design is blah... I love Hines proposal as it's architecturally more appealing from the street to the buildings crown IMO, not so boxy as you mentioned. Definitely a game changer, but as usual the city council goes for the bleaker blander design (not surprising).

Berger besides being bland IMO definitely sends the wrong message as the garage is very pronounced in it's design, think Marina City in Chicago. It basically SCREAMS DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE, not WALK. The other issue I have is the cable barriers more for safety reasons. A small child could easily climb over or even fit through them depending on the final spacing between the cables which is certainly a very scary scenario.
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  #16525  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 4:43 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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I guess I am the only one who thinks in this rare case that the exposed garage looks kinda cool in a midcentury modern/ minimalist kinda way?
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  #16526  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 6:31 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I think it does as well, but lots of people seem to have lots of strong opinions and yours and mine don't jive well in this case.
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  #16527  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 6:40 PM
Code5 Code5 is online now
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I dont think you're alone in this. Initially, I was very turned off and disappointed that the City Council did not go with the Hines RFP, I think it is very esthetically pleasing to the eye. It's also 100 feet taller than the Berger RFP, which would add to the skyline, but the choice has been made.

So we have to live with it and see what happens. That being said! The more I look through the Berger RFP pdf, the more I'm actually liking it. Sure, its another basic block of a highrise, but it's really not all that bad. I even like the pedestrian areas, the bridge connecting to the Hyatt is neat and I love all the trees and greenery, in the concept at least. That could all change. But the more I stare at it, the more I look at it. Give it a try.
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  #16528  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 6:42 PM
bchris02 bchris02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azsunsurfer View Post
I guess I am the only one who thinks in this rare case that the exposed garage looks kinda cool in a midcentury modern/ minimalist kinda way?
I agree with this. I also like that the parking in the Berger proposal is part of the main tower instead of a garage built beside it. And I really like the public space.

I do like the taller and less boxy design of the Hines proposal but overall I think the city made the right choice.
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  #16529  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 7:41 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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If you look the Berger proposal is much more detailed about how they'll activate the area as well. The Hines tower is nicer, but that's not what the city was looking for in this. You could tell more effort and detail were put into Berger to meet the RFP requirements.

Either way - none of these ever get build, so don't worry y'all.
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  #16530  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 9:32 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Hold on, are we sure the council decided on this? Or is a committee making a recommendation? I feel like we wouldn't have had to FOIA this information if it were official, like we would have heard about it from a newspaper. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.
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  #16531  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 9:39 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Hold on, are we sure the council decided on this? Or is a committee making a recommendation? I feel like we wouldn't have had to FOIA this information if it were official, like we would have heard about it from a newspaper. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.
It's only official when it comes from a newspaper?! Come on, we all know AZ Central and PBJ get all their inside info from us lol

Whether the city council has actually voted on this is TBD, but Berger is the recommended proposal

https://solicitations.phoenix.gov/So...achmentId=3579
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  #16532  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 10:13 PM
bchris02 bchris02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
If you look the Berger proposal is much more detailed about how they'll activate the area as well. The Hines tower is nicer, but that's not what the city was looking for in this. You could tell more effort and detail were put into Berger to meet the RFP requirements.

Either way - none of these ever get build, so don't worry y'all.
The Hines proposal to me looks like a taller version of the BOK Park Plaza in OKC, also a Hines project. It's similar right down to how the parking is structured. I have to say I'm not a huge fan of this tower and I think it's a lot more "cookie cutter" than the Berger proposal.

https://www.hines.com/properties/bok...-oklahoma-city
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  #16533  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 11:32 PM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...GcZGKQqV3ZaUXo

Don’t mind the PhoenixNewTimes commentary...here’s a rendering of the new X-Social Communities project on 2nd Ave on the parking lot north of the Urban Connections building.

In light of new builds downtown and parking...this project is expected to be a zero-parked project.
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  #16534  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2020, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
It's only official when it comes from a newspaper?! Come on, we all know AZ Central and PBJ get all their inside info from us lol

Whether the city council has actually voted on this is TBD, but Berger is the recommended proposal

https://solicitations.phoenix.gov/So...achmentId=3579
No, just something like this would have coverage. It's official when it's on the agenda and voted on, and neither have apparently happened. So there's a chance for Phoenix constituents to advocate for their choice.

https://phoenix.legistar.com/Legislation.aspx has other recent RFPs that have been turned into ordinances.
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  #16535  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 12:01 AM
azliam azliam is offline
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The procurement officer replied to me via email:

Hello, William!

Our team is still negotiating with the recommended proposer and hopes to request City Council approval in the next few months.
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  #16536  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 12:07 AM
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combusean combusean is offline
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I don't get why they're doing this. They should vote on whether to direct negotiations with the recommended proposer, if that fails make another motion to direct negotiations with the one of the other submitters down the line, and if that fails direct the office to reopen the RFP for alternate proposals. The department has too much autonomy, let's hypothetically say the council got height envy and wanted the Hines proposal, they've wasted the time of both developers.
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  #16537  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 3:58 AM
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dtphxguy dtphxguy is offline
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I’m sorry, but 250k sq ft of class AA office... with half of it leased This is a no brainer.

I can only think the city council simply wants more hotel rooms online by the time Super Bowl weekend is here. Hines said they’re project wouldn’t be complete in time for the Super Bowl, and Berger said they’ll have theirs done in time (even though central and Adams hasn’t started in two years...?).
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  #16538  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 4:07 AM
xymox xymox is offline
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Originally Posted by dtphxguy View Post
I’m sorry, but 250k sq ft of class AA office... with half of it leased This is a no brainer.

I can only think the city council simply wants more hotel rooms online by the time Super Bowl weekend is here. Hines said they’re project wouldn’t be complete in time for the Super Bowl, and Berger said they’ll have theirs done in time (even though central and Adams hasn’t started in two years...?).
^^^ This is EXACTLY it.
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  #16539  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 4:50 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtphxguy View Post
I’m sorry, but 250k sq ft of class AA office... with half of it leased This is a no brainer.

I can only think the city council simply wants more hotel rooms online by the time Super Bowl weekend is here. Hines said they’re project wouldn’t be complete in time for the Super Bowl, and Berger said they’ll have theirs done in time (even though central and Adams hasn’t started in two years...?).
That's a pretty short-sighted decision if true. It's less than 3 years until Super Bowl LVII and nothing has even broken ground yet. That's a big gamble to take just to maybe get an extra 400 rooms in time for one event when this project, whichever one gets built, will be there for many decades.

I'm hoping that even though it's the recommended proposal, there might be some changes made, just as with Central Station.
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  #16540  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2020, 8:19 AM
Spitfiredude Spitfiredude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtphxguy View Post
I can only think the city council simply wants more hotel rooms online by the time Super Bowl weekend is here. Hines said they’re project wouldn’t be complete in time for the Super Bowl, and Berger said they’ll have theirs done in time (even though central and Adams hasn’t started in two years...?).
Man, if this is true....... man.......
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