Arbutus: Greenway & Future Streetcar | Proposed

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by spm2013

.... the city owns a bunch of old heritage houses around Delamont Park which is supposed to be redeveloped (not sure how many houses would be just fixed vs any new development) for market housing.

I used to live in one back in another century the city has NFC how to deal with those houses or the tenants.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by conrad yablonski

i used to live in one back in another century the city has nfc how to deal with those houses or the tenants.

nfc?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

nfc?

no ___ clue

[makr3trkr]

http://www.heritagevancouver.org/top...en2013_05.html

Tucked along the alignment of the old CP Rail line (also known as the Arbutus Corridor), the future of this enclave of sustainable, low-cost rental heritage housing may be dependent on City negotiations with CP Rail, owners of the lands along the right-of-way that are no longer required for transportation. This unique collection of 22 city-owned pre-WW1 houses, plus several privately owned residences, forms Kitsilano's oldest predominantly intact neighbourhood.

There was a recent application to demolish a strategically located, privately owned residence in Delamont Park.

Originally acquired for the development of an arterial road to the Burrard Bridge, and subsequently held by city for possible park development, this community is centered at 6th Avenue and Arbutus Street. It consists of a small park (named after Kitsilano Boys Band leader Arthur Delamont) and one and one-half blocks of century-old homes. Fifteen of the homes have been evaluated with Statements of Significance as having substantial heritage merit, both individually and as a grouping. Delamont Park is similar to Mole Hill – the much lauded community housing project in the West End that supports the city’s need for affordable housing.

In response to heritage concerns, the Director of Planning Brian Jackson has gone on record that there will be “no heritage demolitions, no sale of city-owned land or buildings, continued maintenance of existing rental homes which are affordable because of their site and location – and thoughtful further acquisition as opportunities become available.” The future of Delamont Park, however, is dependent on a resolution of the Arbutus Corridor, a transportation right-of-way currently owned by CP Rail.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by madog222

no ___ clue

near field communications.

[ChrisK]

Does anyone have estimates of the capital investment required to turn the Arbutus corridor into rail transit?

For simplicity, let's ignore the connectivity and property issues between the Arbutus spur and the exposition Olympic Line running from Granville Island to Olympic Village. How much would it cost, in refurbishment, rolling stock, and facilities to run surface transit from Kerrisdale all the way to Olympic Village? 500 million? Less?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Does anyone have estimates of the capital investment required to turn the Arbutus corridor into rail transit?

For simplicity, let's ignore the connectivity and property issues between the Arbutus spur and the exposition Olympic Line running from Granville Island to Olympic Village. How much would it cost, in refurbishment, rolling stock, and facilities to run surface transit from Kerrisdale all the way to Olympic Village? 500 million? Less?

One old estimate I heard was that Streetcar from Granville island around False creek via Science World and then Chinatown / Gastown to Waterfront was $250 Million - all in.

Although the Arbutus corridor would be easier to construct (the ROW is already there and mostly intact), the demand for grade-separation at major intersections along the route would certainly push up costs, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the project estimates exceed $500 Million.

If you can convince the hoi-polloi along the line that good old-fashoned surface crossings work just as well and are 90% cheaper to build, then costs will go down.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

One old estimate I heard was that Streetcar from Granville island around False creek via Science World and then Chinatown / Gastown to Waterfront was $250 Million - all in.

Although the Arbutus corridor would be easier to construct (the ROW is already there and mostly intact), the demand for grade-separation at major intersections along the route would certainly push up costs, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the project estimates exceed $500 Million.

If you can convince the hoi-polloi along the line that good old-fashoned surface crossings work just as well and are 90% cheaper to build, then costs will go down.

Given the potential for transit-oriented development along the corridor, I'm surprised that CP and the City are so far apart. Any number of win-win scenarios would seem possible.

CP could earn a negotiated portion of revenues from the resulting line. CP could be promised portions of amenity contributions along the corridor. I don't know the nuts and bolts of how money could be moved, but it would seem that CP stands to gain more from working with the City on a long-term vision. The rarity of an intact right of way where no rapid transit exists and density can be accommodated is a strong argument to consider the possibilities. I feel like there must be technical briefs buried somewhere in the planning department about this.

[spm2013]

....

[jsbertram]

CPR can abandon the line, transfer the land to their Real Estate arm (Marathon Realty), then Marathon signs 99-year leases to the City / province / translink and whoever else wants to use their land pursuant to the City's land-use policies.

CPR gets the unused ROW off their books
Marathon Realty earns billions during the rest of this Century from the 99-year leases
City / province / translink get a rail transit corridor from False Creek to Fraser River
Whatever land isn't needed for the transit corridor is put on 99-year leases for Transit-oriented Developments or greenspace.

sounds like win-win-win-win-win for everyone.
(except for the NIMBYs)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

CPR can abandon the line, transfer the land to their Real Estate arm (Marathon Realty), then sign 99-year leases to the City / province / translink and whoever else wants to use their land pursuant to the City's land-use policies.

CPR gets the unused ROW off their books
Marathon Realty earns billions during the rest of this Century from the 99-year leases
City / province / translink get a rail transit corridor from False Creek to Fraser River
Whatever land isn't needed for the transit corridor is put on 99-year leases for Transit-oriented Developments or greenspace.

sounds like win-win-win-win-win for everyone.
(except for the NIMBYs)

It all sounds good, but please save Delamont Park.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It all sounds good, but please save Delamont Park.

I don't imagine the scale looking much different than the J Church running past Dolores Park in SF:

[spm2013]

....

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by spm2013

How would they be able to make billions off this? And does Marathon even exist?

a) lease a 100 foot wide strip of land from Fraser River to False Creek for 99 years (or 999 years - their land, their rules); monthly or annual payments to Marathon from whoever is using their land. Since the land is already broken up into hundreds of parcels, each parcel would be a separate lease. Or large parcels broken into smaller individual lots before leases for the lots are created & sold.

b) google is your friend:
CPRail Marathon

[spm2013]

....

[Tetsuo]

CPR has been doing a lot of work on the line recently, cleared a bunch of bush that enveloped the tracks along west 6th. they left the community gardens alone.

[casper]

Originally Posted by spm2013

a) And how would that magically turn into billions of dollars? Subdividing the corridor magically inflates the value of the land? And it's only 66 feet wide.

b) Too bad it doesn't exist:

As an aside:

Per Corporate Registry (https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/Corp...pNmbr=&bsNmbr=)
Federal Corporation Information - 128325
Corporation Number 128325
Governing Legislation Canada Business Corporations Act - 1979-04-23
Corporate Name MARATHON REALTY COMPANY LIMITED LA SOCIETE IMMOBILIERE MARATHON, LIMITEE
Status
Inactive - Amalgamated into MRC PROPERTIES INC. / SOCIÉTÉ IMMOBILIÈRE MRC INC.
on 1980-12-31

MRC PROPERTIES then in 1990 amalgamated into AQUEST PROPERTIES INC that in 1999 amalgamated into OXFORD MRC INC. that in 2001 amalgamated into a different OXFORD MRC INC. that then disappeared in 2002.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

CPR has been doing a lot of work on the line recently, cleared a bunch of bush that enveloped the tracks along west 6th. they left the community gardens alone.

Have they started working on the rail signals? That's probably the biggest indication they actually want to run trains on it. I'm assuming most, if not all, will need to be rewired to get back into operation.

If it's just landscape work, who knows what the end goal is.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by casper

As an aside:

Per Corporate Registry (https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/Corp...pNmbr=&bsNmbr=)
Federal Corporation Information - 128325
Corporation Number 128325
Governing Legislation Canada Business Corporations Act - 1979-04-23
Corporate Name MARATHON REALTY COMPANY LIMITED LA SOCIETE IMMOBILIERE MARATHON, LIMITEE
Status
Inactive - Amalgamated into MRC PROPERTIES INC. / SOCIÉTÉ IMMOBILIÈRE MRC INC.
on 1980-12-31

MRC PROPERTIES then in 1990 amalgamated into AQUEST PROPERTIES INC that in 1999 amalgamated into OXFORD MRC INC. that in 2001 amalgamated into a different OXFORD MRC INC. that then disappeared in 2002.

But the point does stand that CPR could simply incorporate some holding company then lease the land to the city for transit operations. Somehow I think this or similar deal-making would already be underway if senior levels of government cared to be involved.

[GMasterAres]

You guys are missing the point. The city wants the land for free. Nodda. $0. Out of the kindness of CPR's heart. That is why we are where we are today.

It takes 2 to tango and the lease suggestions require the city to pony up money. The dont want to pony up $1.