Official Brian Bowman Thread

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by pacman

I wonder what the public's reaction would be if Bowman had a press conference and said "wage freeze for WFPS and WPS".

Simply put making a statement like that to the media without first negotiating the agreement with the union is effectively illegal as it circumvents collective bargaining laws.

Now if Bowman were to take a stance that the police budget as a whole was fixed in stone and unmovable and that either means layoffs or a wage freeze that is a different position to take, assuming of course any collective agreement has expired.

It would be interesting to see the fallout if Bowman was willing to try and use ability to pay to deny future salary increases to emergency services.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by pacman

I wonder what the public's reaction would be if Bowman had a press conference and said "wage freeze for WFPS and WPS". I for one would applaud until my hands hurt because those departments' budgets cripple the city's ability to do anything meaningful in other departments. That being said, I applaud until my hands hurt the members of those departments for the jobs they do, I couldn't / wouldn't do it.

Everyone wants the "good guys" like policemen firemen, teachers, nurses, etc... to make good money but there needs to be a balance. I wonder if anyone has stats on how their wages compare to other similar cities in Canada and also how they compare when considering cost of living. Also, how Winnipeg's budget for those departments compare as a percentage of overall budget and per capita to similar cities. My respect and appreciation for their service is real and I know that in principle you can't put a price on a life or on things like health or safety, but the real world isn't in principle, it's in dollars and cents whether we like it or not.

I don't have any basis in facts or sources, I just have a feeling that these departments are relatively over funded and employees are relatively overpaid. If that is in fact true and not just a feeling then I hope Bowman or someone else has the balls to tighten the belt.

You asked:

A further analysis of the proposed 2016 budgets for all the major Prairie cities shows that while the police budget accounts for nearly 27 per cent of the operational budget in Winnipeg, in Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton, proposed police expenditures consume less than 21 per cent of their budgets in all cases.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ents-1.3500207

And check these numbers:




Budget breakdown by department 2000 vs. 2016
Department 2000 budget 2016 budget* Change (%)
Police $114.7 million $280.7 million +145%
Fire paramedic $84.1 million $190.1 million +125%
Public works $154.4 million $215.5 million +40%
All other departments $324.5 million $367.7 million +13%

[esquire]

^ Staggering.

And the funny thing is that even though there's probably a growing awareness of the issue, in the public's eye the villains responsible for property tax increases are still the mid-level manager in the building inspection office, or the CUPE 500 guy mowing lawns at Assiniboine Park.

[pacman]

^ I asked for it and it's worse than I thought. I fear the day that the goodwill legitimately earned by good people in those services gets eroded away to the point that the people in those departments are viewed as villains. 85% of costs are salaries and benefits, that is truly unbelievable. Any PR person that tries to justify those figures with a straight face belongs on the Academy Awards. The tide of public opinion is definitely turning against them, hopefully someone with authority in their negotiations can see this.

[CoryB]

Any chance someone could further break down WPS and WFPS service budgets to extract funds used to cover pension deficits from previous years?

[Wolf13]

ugh that's just enraging...


I know i seem idealistic about "do more with what you have before you tax me more", but clearly something is out of control!

There ARE efficiencies in there!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Any chance someone could further break down WPS and WFPS service budgets to extract funds used to cover pension deficits from previous years?

Some of you guys just don't get it the WPS and WFPS need all they money they can get and should get , our very very good mayor and council will give it to them and raising property taxes is a must, everyone must do their part to make sure all civic employees are very very well paid and looked after, way too much negativity in here!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Some of you guys just don't get it the WPS and WFPS need all they money they can get and should get , our very very good mayor and council will give it to them and raising property taxes is a must, everyone must do their part to make sure all civic employees are very very well paid and looked after, way too much negativity in here!

You may have over-corrected your outlook

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Some of you guys just don't get it the WPS and WFPS need all they money they can get and should get , our very very good mayor and council will give it to them and raising property taxes is a must, everyone must do their part to make sure all civic employees are very very well paid and looked after, way too much negativity in here!

I don't dispute the WPS and WFPS deserve money but I still find some of their choices questionable like motorcycles that can only be used a few months out of the year, hovercraft the sit in a museum and now a helicopter and APC (aka tank). I have said it many times before, I don't disagree that air support may add value but that I feel not enough was done to study the possible return from a drone v helicopter. Sure 20 years ago commercial drones were not were they needed to be but when the helicopter was purchased the type of drones the police could have had access to likely could have offered a similar value for a lower upfront cost, lower operating cost and lower maintenance cost.

I also think with people looking at the total budgets to the two services the funding against outstanding pension deficits should be listed as a separate line item as it would make it easy to monitor the true growth in spending on these services. That past civic governments made mistakes and did not adequately fund the pension doesn't change we need to fix it. I also am not one pushing for pension reform, that is for the bargaining table. I would just like to see the current operational costs separated out.

With the current WFPS I am not aware of any issues but that could be a concern in itself and perhaps there are things hidden that the public should be asking about. It's not about always saying no but rather making smart purchases, say a drone to inspect a fire scene from above v extra funding to build a fire fighting museum annex to a new station.

[CoryB]

Let's play a game:

You are put in charge of the WPS budget and only have money for one of these projects, which do you pick:

a) Fund helicopter operational costs for the next year.
b) Fix the firearms lab in the new police hq.

Fire Arms lab in new HQ unusable

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by pacman

^ I asked for it and it's worse than I thought. I fear the day that the goodwill legitimately earned by good people in those services gets eroded away to the point that the people in those departments are viewed as villains. 85% of costs are salaries and benefits, that is truly unbelievable. Any PR person that tries to justify those figures with a straight face belongs on the Academy Awards. The tide of public opinion is definitely turning against them, hopefully someone with authority in their negotiations can see this.

preaching to the choir my friend!

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Let's play a game:

You are put in charge of the WPS budget and only have money for one of these projects, which do you pick:

a) Fund helicopter operational costs for the next year.
b) Fix the firearms lab in the new police hq.

Fire Arms lab in new HQ unusable

c) Cut 15 officers jobs due to a shortfall of 1.2 milion dollars, flat funding from the provincial government.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Cyro

c) Cut 15 officers jobs due to a shortfall of 1.2 milion dollars, flat funding from the provincial government.

The best part if faced with a choice of cutting 15 positions or reducing service to the helicopter the Police Service choose to eliminated positions.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Let's play a game:

You are put in charge of the WPS budget and only have money for one of these projects, which do you pick:

a) Fund helicopter operational costs for the next year.
b) Fix the firearms lab in the new police hq.

Fire Arms lab in new HQ unusable

Originally Posted by Cyro

c) Cut 15 officers jobs due to a shortfall of 1.2 milion dollars, flat funding from the provincial government.

Between those 3 choices I'd save the firearms lab, cut the 15 jobs and ditch the copter.. You can't have a gun that doesn't work.

To me, I thought that was some gross and vulgar posturing by the police "oh no, we have to eliminate the elite gang task force". CHEAP political play.

No you don't, cut 15-20 traffic positions. Cut the "elite ticketing force".

Stop buyng photo radar cars and stop buying brand new vehicles for every officer and their pet dog. I'm seeing more cruisers on the road every day and I'd be surprised if they're for any reason other than driving ticket revenue.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Between those 3 choices I'd save the firearms lab, cut the 15 jobs and ditch the copter.. You can't have a gun that doesn't work.

To me, I thought that was some gross and vulgar posturing by the police "oh no, we have to eliminate the elite gang task force". CHEAP political play.

No you don't, cut 15-20 traffic positions. Cut the "elite ticketing force".

Stop buyng photo radar cars and stop buying brand new vehicles for every officer and their pet dog. I'm seeing more cruisers on the road every day and I'd be surprised if they're for any reason other than driving ticket revenue.

Haha I wouldn't be surprised if the WPS couldn't survive without ticket revenue at this point. Same with the city. Wonder how many millions are made from photo radar per year. The amount of fines that they hand out I'm surprised we don't have gold paved roads at this point.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Haha I wouldn't be surprised if the WPS couldn't survive without ticket revenue at this point. Same with the city. Wonder how many millions are made from photo radar per year. The amount of fines that they hand out I'm surprised we don't have gold paved roads at this point.

IIRC 10.6 million for the city, 5.3 million for the company providing the equipment/software.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Between those 3 choices I'd save the firearms lab, cut the 15 jobs and ditch the copter.. You can't have a gun that doesn't work.

To me, I thought that was some gross and vulgar posturing by the police "oh no, we have to eliminate the elite gang task force". CHEAP political play.

No you don't, cut 15-20 traffic positions. Cut the "elite ticketing force".

Stop buyng photo radar cars and stop buying brand new vehicles for every officer and their pet dog. I'm seeing more cruisers on the road every day and I'd be surprised if they're for any reason other than driving ticket revenue.

Unless things have changed the photo radar cars are owned and staffed by Xerox not the WPD. I would not be surprised if Xerox actually rotates them thru their different western Canada Photo Radar accounts as not to let them get too well known in any city.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by cllew

Unless things have changed the photo radar cars are owned and staffed by Xerox not the WPD. I would not be surprised if Xerox actually rotates them thru their different western Canada Photo Radar accounts as not to let them get too well known in any city.

They're pretty obvious

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by cllew

Unless things have changed the photo radar cars are owned and staffed by Xerox not the WPD. I would not be surprised if Xerox actually rotates them thru their different western Canada Photo Radar accounts as not to let them get too well known in any city.

Interesting. Did not know that.

Fekkin Xerox.

[kirkawall]

Originally Posted by Cyro

c) Cut 15 officers jobs due to a shortfall of 1.2 milion dollars, flat funding from the provincial government.

Yes, but cut them from the anti-gang squad specifically, in order to make a point about "disappointing outcomes" from preventative policing initiatives, despite clear evidence to the contrary, including that provided your own experts.

Back on thread, what does Bowman actually want for this city? At the outset he seemed to be a Nenshi in waiting. Now he seems to be Pallister's poodle, lacking any political or social orientation, twisting in the wind. I don't get it.