Census 2011 Results:

[davidivivid]

Well that was an interesting conversation to follow (or trying to)!!

2 forumers from Montreal and 3 from Quebec City posting on the same thread in the Canada section of SSP... that must be some kind of record right?!!

[davidivivid]

Originally Posted by Dirt_Devil

And as much as it is true that people in Québec City will expect a minimum effort to speak the local language from a tourist, most quebecers will be glad to speak english. Most of them do not have the occasion to speak english in their everyday routine. I think it is kind of funny when an anglophone is here and tries to speak french to a local and the latter tries to answer in english. both of them are really making efforts to be nice to the other person and it always ends up with smiles. It's just the way it is and it gives a warm and welcoming feeling to the city.

You've hit the nail on the head!! I've seen this english and french... back and forth all the time between locals and tourists and quite honestly, I've lived it myself! About 35% of Quebec City's population is said to have reasonable english skills but it is harder to practice it on a day to day basis. Hence, some people seem eager to speak english with the tourists even though these tourist really want to be understood in french!! Quite charming actually!!!

[mbeaumont]

Originally Posted by davidivivid

You've hit the nail on the head!! I've seen this english and french... back and forth all the time between locals and tourists and quite honestly, I've lived it myself! About 35% of Quebec City's population is said to have reasonable english skills but it is harder to practice it on a day to day basis. Hence, some people seem eager to speak english with the tourists even though these tourist really want to be understood in french!! Quite charming actually!!!

When I first moved to Quebec, this used to happen to me all the time, at first I was offended, and thought "wtf, is my french really that bad", until somebody explained to me that some people are just eager to speak english because they don't get the chance to very often

[kwoldtimer]

I use it to exercise my passive-aggressive streak by continuing to respond in French and feigning difficulty in understanding their English. You can really get into people's heads, sometimes!

[eemy]

Some people may be interested in this:

Statistics Canada is having a 1 hour chat session open to the public with one of their demographers on Monday afternoon. The link to info on how to sign up is on their front page.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Not to put too fine a point on it, but just for comparison:

Alliston, ON (in the Toronto CMA)
46km to Toronto City limits (NW corner Etobicoke)
66km to downtown Toronto

Okotoks, AB (not in the Calgary CMA)
13km to Calgary City limits
36km to downtown Calgary

Sheesh if your splitting hairs here, well Ottawa as well has a few commuter towns within a a few km's to the city limit, or a roughly half hour commuting distance to down town that aren't part of the the CMA..Kemptville, Arnprior, Carleton Place and Almonte are just a few that come to mind.They all have their own mayor and have become bedroom communities...Ottawa can be closer to 1.3 million if these towns were added...I'm really surprised actually that Ottawa has grown the way it has considering the Hi-Tech has all but dissapeared. I mean how in Did Ottawa pick up over 100'000 people? Immigration? dunno. Some fella posted some cool pics on the city section awhile back entitled "Downtown in Canada" 4th largest city"(Ottawa)" ,and a few Calgarians for whatever reason were quick to correct him based on estimates or local counts. I ran with it. Seeing these Census results made me realize that you have to wait 5 years to see a more accurate account. With threats of Government lay-offs, and no more Hi-tech I can see Calgary and Edmonton surpassing Ottawa, but we have to wait five years to see for sure. Not next year or the year after.

[sgera]

Originally Posted by Razor

Sheesh if your splitting hairs here, well Ottawa as well has a few commuter towns within a a few km's to the city limit, or a roughly half hour commuting distance to down town that aren't part of the the CMA..Kemptville, Arnprior, Carleton Place and Almonte are just a few that come to mind.They all have their own mayor and have become bedroom communities...Ottawa can be closer to 1.3 million if these towns were added...I'm really surprised actually that Ottawa has grown the way it has considering the Hi-Tech has all but dissapeared. I mean how in Did Ottawa pick up over 100'000 people? Immigration? dunno. Some fella posted some cool pics on the city section awhile back entitled "Downtown in Canada" 4th largest city"(Ottawa)" ,and a few Calgarians for whatever reason were quick to correct him based on estimates or local counts. I ran with it. Seeing these Census results made me realize that you have to wait 5 years to see a more accurate account. With threats of Government lay-offs, and no more Hi-tech I can see Calgary and Edmonton surpassing Ottawa, but we have to wait five years to see for sure. Not next year or the year after.

Razor - firstly I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that tech is dead in Ottawa...yes Nortel, and JDSU is not what it used to be...but there is a way larger base of tech companies in the capital now than there was at the height of the .dot com boom (1900 tech. companies now vs. 1200 in 2000). When you look at tech employment in the city, Ottawa still boasts the highest % of tech workers per capita than anywhere in canada...there are 44k tech. R&D professionals by stats canada counts...and 71k by OCRI counts (which as a broader definition)....no doubt that most of the tech stars have been bought over by american multinationals...but look at the swath of companies with large employment bases in town: ALU, Cisco, Ericsson, Ciena, GENBAND, Avaya, RIM (have you seen their new kanata campus?), Nordion, IBM (now the region's largest private sector employer)....and so many more coming up...Dragonwave, Bel-Air, Mosaid & Wi-Lan, Kinaxis to name a few. Did you seen what happened in the professional services sector this year?...up 35% in employment this year alone to 70k professionals (yes in one year)....sure it's not as visible as Nortel's boom in the late 90's...it's a more subtle boom. Last month, Ottawa created more jobs than any other CMA in the country: 9,300 jobs in one month. I'm not surprised at all that the CMA increased by 100k in population....employment has roughly grown by the same amount over the last 5 years. It is likely in the next CMA, some bordering towns will also be included given how far people are moving out now...OCRI states that the city's region is more like 1.4M today and over time the CMA is bound to include those cities.

I just moved back from Toronto and am amazed at how much the city has grown up in 5 years...westborough is trendy, the market is bumping on weekend, there are way more immigrants than before (look at the chinese super markets opening up near the airport & orleans), we have a real china town and little italy.....light rail/downtown tunnel finally coming, new stadium coming, airport is world class with lots of direct flights now, convention centre is world class, museums are world class, festivals are world class (bluesfest, winterlude, tulip festival)....all the major music acts don't bypass the city anymore (rolling stones, u2, madonna)....they are shooting movies here....condo boom all around the city. Things are looking up here in ottawa...i'm glad to live here again. Sure the feds will cut 20k jobs..but the city is way larger and more resilient than when it happened in the early 90's...don't think it will be a big deal. The funny part is ...with job cuts on the horizon...there are 4 gov't office towers under construction right now (90 lorne, 2 x gatineau, and 1 x at train station) + 150 elgin broke ground (private sector office tower)....RIM is constructing a couple of new buildings in Kanata...Ciena likely to build once they get kicked out of former nortel campus...over 40 condo buildings in various stages of planning and at least 10 under construction right now.

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Razor

Sheesh if your splitting hairs here, well Ottawa as well has a few commuter towns within a a few km's to the city limit, or a roughly half hour commuting distance to down town that aren't part of the the CMA..Kemptville, Arnprior, Carleton Place and Almonte are just a few that come to mind.They all have their own mayor and have become bedroom communities...Ottawa can be closer to 1.3 million if these towns were added...I'm really surprised actually that Ottawa has grown the way it has considering the Hi-Tech has all but dissapeared. I mean how in Did Ottawa pick up over 100'000 people? Immigration? dunno. Some fella posted some cool pics on the city section awhile back entitled "Downtown in Canada" 4th largest city"(Ottawa)" ,and a few Calgarians for whatever reason were quick to correct him based on estimates or local counts. I ran with it. Seeing these Census results made me realize that you have to wait 5 years to see a more accurate account. With threats of Government lay-offs, and no more Hi-tech I can see Calgary and Edmonton surpassing Ottawa, but we have to wait five years to see for sure. Not next year or the year after.

We'll have to wait two more years to see what the undercounts were, but in the meantime, Statistics Canada recommends using the estimates as they are a more accurate representation of population. In that sense, I think we can legitimately say that Calgary has surpassed Ottawa in population, even if the preliminary results from the census don't reflect that.

[vid]

I'm slowly going through the city database and updating populations. I've just completed Alberta. If I miss any, let me know via PM.

Some of the numbers were from the 2001 census! Airdrie has more than doubled its population since then. Canmore has barely grown.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by Wooster

^ No, he left Quebec City. He's a native Calgarian.

Well I thought you meant he moved to Quebec City from Calgary...my bad

[Phil McAvity]

I don't know how you guys ever found the census numbers because I can never find them and little wonder since they are under "Data Products", yet StatsCan isn't selling me anything so there is no "product". Why don't they just fucking say "data"?!?!?!

Since when and how did Cape Breton become a CMA/CA?

Also, can we start calling Fort McMurray Fort McMurray (or better yet, "Fort Mac") instead of "Wood Buffalo" yet that's what StatsCan keeps calling it. I've never heard anyone call Fort McMurry Wood Buffalo.

Speaking of Alberta cities, Kudos to Lethbridge for hitting 100 grand.

The only change in rankings in the top 20 were K-W and London. K-W was slightly behind London before this census and now it's slightly ahead. Maybe someday it will look like a real city too.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

I don't know how you guys ever found the census numbers because I can never find them and little wonder since they are under "Data Products", yet StatsCan isn't selling me anything so there is no "product". Why don't they just fucking say "data"?!?!?!

Since when and how did Cape Breton become a CMA/CA?

Also, can we start calling Fort McMurray Fort McMurray (or better yet, "Fort Mac") instead of "Wood Buffalo" yet that's what StatsCan keeps calling it. I've never heard anyone call Fort McMurry Wood Buffalo.

http://www.woodbuffalo.ab.ca/site3.aspx

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

http://www.woodbuffalo.ab.ca/site3.aspx

Thanks for that.

[eternallyme]

Looking at only the nine largest CMAs (those over 500,000), here IMO are the areas that should be added:

Toronto

Current population: 5,583,064
Recommended population: 6,115,020

Reason: Eliminate the Oshawa CMA and absorb into the Toronto CMA. Shift Burlington to the Toronto CMA from the Hamilton CMA. No other additions.

Montreal

Current population: 3,824,221
Recommended population: 3,969,243

Reason: Eliminate the Lachute, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and Salaberry-de-Valleyfield CAs and absorb into the Montreal CMA. Considering absorbing Joliette and Sorel-Tracy but they seem to have enough of a rural fringe to remain separate for now.

Vancouver

Current population: 2,313,328
Recommended population: 2,313,328

Reason: No changes necessary. Considered adding Abbotsford-Mission into the CMA, but I think a merged Abbotsford-Chilliwack-Mission CMA makes more sense.

Ottawa-Gatineau

Current population: 1,236,324
Recommended population: 1,303,997

Reason: Add the municipalities of Arnprior, Beckwith, Carleton Place, Casselman, Mississippi Mills, North Grenville and The Nation. Others seem too distant with too few people to make it obvious, or force distant areas in.

Calgary

Current population: 1,214,839
Recommended population: 1,278,375

Reason: Add the municipalities of Black Diamond, Foothills 31, High River, Longview, Okotoks and Turner Valley. Considered adding Strathmore, but that forces all of Wheatland County in and beyond there seems too distant.

Edmonton

Current population: 1,159,869
Recommended population: 1,159,869

Reason: No changes necessary.

Winnipeg

Current population: 730,018
Recommended population: 809,479

Reason: Add Hanover, Rockwood, St. Andrews, Ste. Anne RM, Ste. Anne village, Selkirk, Steinbach, Stonewall, Tache and Teulon. (Hanover is borderline, but Steinbach had to be included and most of the population is likely focused in the northern part)

Quebec

Current population: 765,706
Recommended population: 778,695

Reason: Add Donnacona, Saint-Apollinaire and Saint-Antoine-de-Tilly. Not familiar with other areas to make recommendations.

Hamilton

Current population: 721,053
Recommended population: 608,449

Reason: Remove Burlington (to Toronto CMA). Add Norfolk County.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Thanks for that.

Sorry I thought you mean you never heard of Wood Buffalo... but in any case it's been amalgamated so for proper/consistent comparison you use the municipal/census division boundaries and names. Old township/city boundaries can sometimes be found using census tracts though, and using UAs (now "population centres") you can still find Fort Mac http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recen...ustom=&TABID=1 or other places like Kanata

[Phil McAvity]

Of course i'm familiar with Wood Buffalo, my point was, I don't know another city in Canada with a split personality like Fort McMurray, so why doesn't the government call it Fort McMurray, since everyone in Canada does.

eternallyme, you should e-mail your figures to StatsCan and see where that gets you.

[vid]

Because Fort MacMurray is just one small part of the Municipality of Wood Buffalo. It would be like calling Ontario "Toronto".

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Of course i'm familiar with Wood Buffalo, my point was, I don't know another city in Canada with a split personality like Fort McMurray, so why doesn't the government call it Fort MacMurray, since everyone in Canada does.

There are some sort of similar examples for CAs in Ontario... Centre Wellington and Kawartha Lakes are both "created" municipal names from amalgamation in the 90s and aren't actual towns/cities.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Looking at only the nine largest CMAs (those over 500,000), here IMO are the areas that should be added:


Montreal

Current population: 3,824,221
Recommended population: 3,969,243

Reason: Eliminate the Lachute, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and Salaberry-de-Valleyfield CAs and absorb into the Montreal CMA. Considering absorbing Joliette and Sorel-Tracy but they seem to have enough of a rural fringe to remain separate for now.

Nice. But Saint-Hyacinthe should be added too (pop 56,794) (Montreal would then be at 4,026,037) Sorel and Joliette are indeed too far away and isolated

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Nice. But Saint-Hyacinthe should be added too (pop 56,794) (Montreal would then be at 4,026,037) Sorel and Joliette are indeed too far away and isolated

Saint-Hyacinthe is not directly adjacent, so it would require the addition of at least one rural municipality as well.