Sports in Canadian culture

[jlousa]

I think the other NFL owners would rather see a team in LA, San Antonio, and even Omaha among several other US cities before Toronto. The Canadian teams have proven to be a very weak TV draw in the US and that will affect their decision process.
Wonder if the amount of players with criminal records will also play a factor with cross border play. I imagine it could be worked around but it would add additional complications.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Wonder if the amount of players with criminal records will also play a factor with cross border play. I imagine it could be worked around but it would add additional complications.

One would think it wouldn't be any different than any other sport but then again it isn't called the National Felon League for nothing. CFL has problems getting players into training camps so I can't see this being an easy process.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Why pay a hugely inflated price to watch an NFL game when you can go to Buffalo or Detroit and save big bucks? 20,000 Canadians put up with the pain of going to Ralph Wilson stadium every game. Not hard to imagine 60,000 people attending when they have their own team right in their own backyard.

The NFL is different than MLB and the NBA in that while it's also the biggest league of it's sport, it only has 8 home games to sell tickets to... and almost always on Sunday. Very easy to fit something like that in your schedule and doesn't take a lot of effort to support.

This argument that people don't go see the Bills in Toronto because it's not their team gets a lot of skepticism from CFL fans, but in my opinion I'd say that it's likely true. I have little doubt that an NFL team in Toronto would be well-supported: or at least as well supported as any NFL team in the U.S.

The problem is that the NFL doesn't operate on "likelihood", and prefers "certainty". Or at least proven interest. Like you've seen in... dare I say... London, UK.

Not saying that London is a shoo-in for an NFL team, but if Toronto posted numbers like that it would be much more likely to get one let me tell you.

And if I were a Torontonian who really really wanted an NFL team in his city, I'd be buying tickets for the Bills in Toronto every single year.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think the other NFL owners would rather see a team in LA, San Antonio, and even Omaha among several other US cities before Toronto. The Canadian teams have proven to be a very weak TV draw in the US and that will affect their decision process.
Wonder if the amount of players with criminal records will also play a factor with cross border play. I imagine it could be worked around but it would add additional complications.

All of this too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Are you retarded? You must know nothing about the city if you think it's even remotely the same city it was in the 80's, it's an alpha city now with more population and economic clout. There have been several articles in this thread showing progress being made and if you've been following Olympic developments we've got a good shot at 2024 and Canada has a good shot at FIFA 2026, both of which would require a new 80,000+ stadium. Where do you think that will be based? Exactly. Where the largest TV, head office and advertising market in Canada is, you know, the region you hate so much that bankrolls every major league and national TV content in Canada?

NFL team for sale and sold to Toronto owners
OR
NFL expansion team awarded to Toronto

+

Toronto awarded Summer Olympics and huge stadium gets built
OR
Canada awarded World Cup and Toronto gets new huge stadium


... requires an intricate coicidental alignment of the stars.

It's not the same as how things are usually done in the NFL: Mr. Moneybags wants a team, gets it, then builds his own stadium, or blackmails level(s) of government(s) into building one just for him and his team.

[esquire]

^ No chance that Canada gets the World Cup. Soccer is in too primitive a state here for that to happen. Our international soccer goal should be the less glamourous task of raising the level of elite soccer competition here and actually qualifying for the World Cup.

The Olympics are a different story. Toronto is arguably the only Canadian city in a position to pull off a successful bid. But even then it wouldn't happen before 2024 or 2028. So unless JBJ & Co. are prepared to pony up to build a new stadium in Toronto, they will probably be waiting at least a decade for a proper facility to be built. And of course Rogers Centre is a no-go because of the grass that the baseball players need

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Think of those groups like Bread not Circuses who protested funding for an Olympic bid and how much grief they caused. Multiply that by ten to get the amount of special interest groups that would get behind this to protest funding a stadium for the biggest sports and money making business in the world.

It would be political suicide for the Federal government to give any money to something that would benefit the NFL. Not just patriotic or CFL reasons, but the fact that such a profitable business should be able to fund this thing themselves.

Edit: just read the above post and funny we both used the term political suicide, because that is exactly what it would be, on many levels. Would Quebec then want money to bring back the Expos?

As for the province of Ontario kicking in, in addition to opposition from Toronto itself, the majority of seats in the provincial legislature are from outside the GTA.

Try selling the idea of a billion-dollar Toronto NFL stadium with (some) public money in Cornwall, Windsor, Hamilton or Sudbury for fun...

[elly63]

I just thought of a couple of things that could enter into it. It's likely a new stadium would have to be domed (adding hundreds of millions to the cost) We are not used to having an extended outdoor playing season into December and January in Canada. Are Toronto fans hardy, aside from the ones who go to Buffalo.

Another thing I read in the ticats forum was interesting. "What I find really funny about this whole NFL to Toronto stuff is that if they actually did try it they'll get the same pushback from the NFL that we get every time there is an NHL bid. The Bills were smart enough to put the games into Toronto and now if they try for a team the Bills will say that Toronto is their territory and putting a team there will hurt the club because of Canadians that cross the border to go to games."

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ No chance that Canada gets the World Cup. Soccer is in too primitive a state here for that to happen. Our international soccer goal should be the less glamourous task of raising the level of elite soccer competition here and actually qualifying for the World Cup.

Think Qatar or South Africa. We have a much better chance of getting a WC than TO does the NFL.

Mexico wants to host again and our stadiums (aside from the big one) match up well with them, not to mention our strength in infrastructure and security.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The problem is that the NFL doesn't operate on "likelihood", and prefers "certainty". Or at least proven interest. Like you've seen in... dare I say... London, UK.

Not saying that London is a shoo-in for an NFL team, but if Toronto posted numbers like that it would be much more likely to get one let me tell you.

The NFL is well aware that many Canadians travel down to Detroit, Buffalo and elsewhere to watch NFL games - and that this option with very cheap ticket prices play a factor with these NFL games in Toronto. They're not dumb enough to overlook that.
With London it's a totally different scenario - seeing a live NFL game requires a plane ticket - so when a game comes to town, it's a bigger deal to the metro population of 15 million. People in Southern Ontario can see a game one hour away any time they want.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think the other NFL owners would rather see a team in LA, San Antonio, and even Omaha among several other US cities before Toronto. The Canadian teams have proven to be a very weak TV draw in the US and that will affect their decision process.

This is all that matters. The NFL is a TV driven league, gates mean very little in a league that signs multi billion dollar TV packages.

I have no doubt that Toronto could successfully support an NFL team, but the NFL will NEVER come to Toronto because US fans don't want to watch their team play a Canadian team.

It's completely ridiculous, but it's the way it is.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by elly63

Sorry but nobody "hates" T.O.

?

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Ugh NFL in Toronto. Yet another reason to absolutely hate the city.

Please god let this not happen; do not want that over-commercialized American circle-jerk in my country.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think the other NFL owners would rather see a team in LA, San Antonio, and even Omaha among several other US cities before Toronto.

Absolutely. In fact, I would add Mexico City to that list as well.

The NFL gets decent TV ratings in Canada and sells a decent amount of merchandise here, and that's all it needs.

[MrOilers]

I can't see Toronto getting support to build an NFL-caliber football stadium. A $350 million arena for Canadians to play hockey in is huge political hot potato. I can't imagine a city asking for triple that to build a $1 Billion football stadium to host games solely for an AMERICAN football league.

Not only that, but the NFL also doesn't allow corporate ownership. Does Toronto have a Billionaire who would buy his own NFL team?

Those are the biggest 2 obstacles, on top of other big obstacles.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Think Qatar or South Africa. We have a much better chance of getting a WC than TO does the NFL.

Mexico wants to host again and our stadiums (aside from the big one) match up well with them, not to mention our strength in infrastructure and security.

I am not sure our stadiums match up well with Mexico's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...iums_in_Mexico

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Stands to reason given that one of the teams playing in the Vanier Cup is from Quebec's second largest city and happens to be very popular.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a Mount Allison-Calgary Vanier Cup would have attracted significantly fewer viewers in Quebec.

As part of the broadcast they had an awards show with football players from the Quebec City area and beyond, and it really hit me how the Laval Rouge et Or are considered "big time" in that area. Well, almost "big time".

Many of the teenagers were talking about how it was their "dream" since they were little boys to play for the Rouge et Or.

Anyway, very interesting.

[esquire]

^ It is remarkable how Quebec has gotten behind the Rouge et Or. No other CIS football team - certainly none outside of the AUAA - has been able to establish such a deep connection with their community.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

I can't see Toronto getting support to build an NFL-caliber football stadium. A $350 million arena for Canadians to play hockey in is huge political hot potato. I can't imagine a city asking for triple that to build a $1 Billion football stadium to host games solely for an AMERICAN football league.

Not only that, but the NFL also doesn't allow corporate ownership. Does Toronto have a Billionaire who would buy his own NFL team?

Those are the biggest 2 obstacles, on top of other big obstacles.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15581107/

That takes this deal out of the league of Bon Jovi, who is undoubtedly lobbying hard for a team and has some interesting friends aside from Tanenbaum and Leiweke, such as New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft. But NFL bylaws say the majority owner has to have at least 30 per cent of the equity in the franchise.

Since Bon Jovi’s net worth is estimated to be around $300-million (U.S.), this means writing a cheque for the equal of his net worth is not possible. Hence Bon Jovi’s chumminess with Tanenbaum and Leiweke, whose daughter Francesca is reported to be working for the rock star in his quest.

However, those who know all the characters in this drama think the real player in this could be Edward Rogers, whose family is behind Rogers Communications Inc., which is the co-majority owner of MLSE along with BCE Inc. Rogers Communications has been chasing an NFL team for years with the help of Tanenbaum, who owns the other 25 per cent of MLSE.

The Rogers family’s net worth is estimated at $6.41-billion, which dwarfs even Tanenbaum and makes Bon Jovi a small player. Some insiders see Edward Rogers, 44, emerging as the majority owner in a bid with Tanenbaum and Bon Jovi, who is certainly handy as a front man for now, taking minority stakes.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

and FWIW - here's Bon Jovi's publicist commenting on the story

BUFFALO, N.Y. -- While Jon Bon Jovi is interested in becoming an NFL owner one day, he's not currently pursuing the Buffalo Bills, the New Jersey rocker's publicist told The Associated Press on Monday.

"The Bills are not for sale, and he has too much respect for Mr. Wilson to engage in any discussions of buying the team," Ken Sunshine said, referring to Ralph Wilson, the team's Hall of Fame owner.

Saying Bon Jovi has "a day job that's doing very well," Sunshine added: "It's preposterous to say he's had any discussions with the Bills and Erie County."

Sunshine spoke by phone a day after CBSSports.com posted a story citing unidentified sources that Bon Jovi is among the parties positioning themselves to purchase the Bills after Wilson's death. Wilson, who turned 95 last month, has maintained he has no interest in selling the franchise during his lifetime.

Sunshine didn't deny Bon Jovi's interest in one day being an NFL owner, saying his client has made that no secret.

Bon Jovi has developed relationships with several NFL power-brokers, including New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.

His interest in football went so far as to lead a group to establish an Arena Football team in Philadelphia in 2004. Bon Jovi owned the team through 2009, when the AFL folded for one season.

The future of the Bills is always a hot topic of discussion and speculation given Wilson's age and because he has ruled out the possibility of his family taking over the team after his death. The Bills will instead be sold, though that sale would likely be put off for a few years, with the franchise being operated through a trust.

Wilson, who lives in suburban Detroit, has already scaled back his control of the team. On Jan. 1, Russ Brandon was promoted to the position of team president, giving him full control of the franchise's day-to-day operations.

The team's short-term future in Buffalo was also secured in December, when the Bills signed a 10-year lease with the state and Erie County to continue playing at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

The $271 million deal includes a provision that essentially locks the Bills in for the next seven seasons. The franchise would have to pay $400 million if it decides to leave before 2020. The team then has the option of buying out the remaining three years of the lease for $28 million.

Several groups have expressed interest in purchasing the Bills, including one led by Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly.

In response to the report regarding Bon Jovi, the Bills released a statement on Sunday, saying: "The organization does not respond to reports of the interest other parties may have in ownership or of speculation concerning various groups that may have such interest."

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz also issued a statement Sunday saying he's had no discussions with Bon Jovi.

Sunshine disputed another portion of the CBSSports.com report, which cited unidentified music industry sources as saying Bon Jovi's pursuit of an NFL team was likely connected to the dismissal of the band's longtime lead guitarist, Richie Sambora, in April.

Sunshine said the split had nothing to do with Bon Jovi's NFL aspirations and referred to previous reports that Sambora was never fired. He noted the guitarist said he was dropping out of the band's world tour because of "personal issues."

Last week, Sambora told TMZ that he's been in contact with Bon Jovi and indicated he is open to rejoining the band.

The Bills (4-7) are coming off their bye weekend off and preparing to host Atlanta in Buffalo's annual "home" game at Toronto on Sunday.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It is remarkable how Quebec has gotten behind the Rouge et Or. No other CIS football team - certainly none outside of the AUAA - has been able to establish such a deep connection with their community.

Quebec City has been something of a sports-starved market since the Nordiques left, and so the Rouge et Or and well-supported junior team (Remparts, average 10,000 or so a game) have filled the gap.

There is also the fact that all student sports in Quebec are now grouped under one organization: RSEQ (Réseau du sport étudiant québécois). This goes from my kids' elementary track and field competitions all the way up to university football with Laval, McGill, etc.

As a result, in football for example every echelon of a player's progression in the sport is mapped out by the RSEQ and it's clear in the kids' minds what they are aspiring to, all the way up to the university teams and also, to some degree, the Alouettes and the CFL even.