HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Engineering

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 8:03 PM
mthd mthd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post


That really is shocking. My building is 36 years old and we have nothing like that in our garage.
ours is 100+, and we definitely have nothing like that! then again, we're on high ground/rock out of the water table.

that said, i'm not sure exactly what we're seeing there. looks like bad spalling and then some exploratory demo (the diagonal cuts, circular holes at the top?). the exposed rebar can't be the result of an actual failure.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2018, 3:27 AM
deja vu's Avatar
deja vu deja vu is offline
somewhere in-between
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,266
It almost looks like the new, replacement rebar. That would help explain the rather large holes in the wall (caused by removing the old, rusted / damaged rebar). That's often what happens on these types of jobs - the old steel has to be completely removed until you are back to good steel. Then new steel is installed, bonding coats applied, and new concrete installed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2018, 11:44 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7,586
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2018, 6:28 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
TJPA: Ruling Limits Taxpayer Liability in Millennium Tower Legal Costs Fight
September 24, 2018 07:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time

SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The Transbay Joint Powers Authority (TJPA) announced Monday that a court ruling last week may require the TJPA to pay in the future just a fraction of the legal costs sought by Mission Street Development (MSD), the developer of the sinking and tilting Millennium Tower.

On September 20, 2018, San Francisco Superior Court Judge Curtis Karnow rejected MSD’s request that the Court require the TJPA to defend MSD in six lawsuits. Those lawsuits have been brought against MSD for the excessive settlement and tilt of the Tower, including numerous fraud claims asserted by Millennium Tower residents against MSD.

The ruling did not examine or determine who caused the excessive settlement and tilt of the Millennium Tower, which will not be determined until trial in June 2019. The ruling dealt only with the narrow issue of whether the TJPA has a duty to defend MSD (e.g., MSD’s reasonable attorneys’ fees) based solely on what has been alleged by plaintiffs in the various complaints. Any suggestion that the ruling opens the possibility that the TJPA must pay the plaintiffs’ alleged damages due to the excessive settlement and tilt of the Tower is incorrect and a misreading of the Court’s order.

MSD argued that the TJPA was required under an indemnity clause in a 2008 easement agreement to defend MSD in all six cases against all claims, including fraud claims that unit holders filed against MSD for failing to disclose the excessive settlement and tilt prior to the sale of units.

The Court rejected that argument and held that the TJPA only has a duty to defend MSD against two claims in one case filed by the Homeowners Association for the Tower . . . .
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...llennium-Tower
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 7:59 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Millennium Tower homeowners propose $100 million solution to sinking problem
J.K. Dineen Dec. 3, 2018 Updated: Dec. 3, 2018 8:20 p.m.

Homeowners in the sinking Millennium Tower on Tuesday will submit a permit application to shore up the 58-story building by drilling more than 50 new piles down to bedrock, a nearly $100 million fix.

In an application to be filed with the city’s Department of Building Inspection, the Millennium Tower Association laid out plans for a “perimeter pile upgrade,” 52 steel and concrete piles that would shift a portion of the building’s weight from its existing foundation system to bedrock about 250 feet below.

While the application outlines about $30 million worth of work, the entire pile upgrade would cost nearly $100 million and take 18 months. The contractor would drill 22 new piles along Mission Street and 30 along Fremont Street. Each pile is 24 inches in diameter and weighs 140,000 pounds and would take three or four days to drill into place. A reinforced concrete “inner pile” would be installed within each steel shaft.

That shift would relieve stress on soils that have compressed beneath the building, causing it to settle more than anticipated and to tilt, according to engineer Ronald Hamburger of the firm Simpson Gumpertz & Heger, which designed the plan. The new piles on the north and west sides would limit future settlement of the tower to minimal levels and reverse the building’s tilt, according to Hamburger.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...n-13440479.php
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2018, 9:36 PM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,371
Easy. Shore it up or tear it down. I personally vote tear it down. Everyone is talking about how its sinking, no one is talking about the safety of the actual structure and the stress that the tilt has put on the buildings steel/concrete that we cant see from the exterior and walls from the interior. cracks here, cracks there, how's the steel holding up? reinforced concrete ? of course the developer will say their tests prove its "fine". To put it in perspective, Vegas tor down a 25 story building that was never opened because of bad reinforced concrete, stresses on the steel and etc. because they were afraid of earthquakes.....but this leaning tower with obvious issues inside and out, sitting in the middle of earthquake country makes sense? You couldn't pay me to live there for an extended amount of time.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2018, 2:41 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
no one is talking about the safety of the actual structure and the stress that the tilt has put on the buildings steel/concrete that we cant see from the exterior and walls from the interior. cracks here, cracks there, how's the steel holding up? reinforced concrete ? of course the developer will say their tests prove its "fine". To put it in perspective, Vegas tor down a 25 story building that was never opened because of bad reinforced concrete, stresses on the steel and etc. because they were afraid of earthquakes.....but this leaning tower with obvious issues inside and out, sitting in the middle of earthquake country makes sense? You couldn't pay me to live there for an extended amount of time.
They are certainly talking about it. That's the first thing everybody talked about when they first heard what was happening. But so far no engineer has said it's at risk of collapse or a hazard to people or the buildings around it.

And if you read the post directly above your own, they have a pretty sensible plan to "fix" it so I say "just do it".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2018, 4:37 AM
toddguy toddguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
They are certainly talking about it. That's the first thing everybody talked about when they first heard what was happening. But so far no engineer has said it's at risk of collapse or a hazard to people or the buildings around it.

And if you read the post directly above your own, they have a pretty sensible plan to "fix" it so I say "just do it".
Let's hope that works and there is not an earthquake before then. Why oh why did they build this 60 story building without anchoring it in bedrock in a fill area in a high hazard area during earthquakes! How could they not learn from 1906 and 1989?

That picture of the garage concrete is appalling!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2018, 5:38 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7,586
Why? Because their engineering consultant said friction piles and a thick mat foundation were adequate.

Guess he was wrong. Lawsuits all around, especially since the fix is going to cost $100 million.

Non-San Franciscans may not be aware that another result of this is that the developer, Millennium Partners, which is not a local or small outfit, has had to sell their interest in another large project, 706 Mission St., which is now going to be a 4 Seasons condo building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2018, 11:23 PM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
They are certainly talking about it. That's the first thing everybody talked about when they first heard what was happening. But so far no engineer has said it's at risk of collapse or a hazard to people or the buildings around it.

And if you read the post directly above your own, they have a pretty sensible plan to "fix" it so I say "just do it".
I read it. Still not impressed. Engineers can say a lot. Are they going floor to floor and checking the buildings condition on a daily? no, or they taking samples from each floor and testing the reinforced concrete ? no. The engineers are essentially saying "well if we fix it, it should be fine" since this is uncharted territory on American soil, similar cases overseas, china, have all lead to collapse or tear downs. And now we are going to say drilling down to bed rock, some how lifting the billions of tons to get the building leveled will certainly do the job. GREAT. but the damage is still already done with the stress on the steal and concrete.

No matter what engineers say, this building will forever have problems until the day its replaced. Broken pipes, elevators not working, cracks in walls and floors, basement floors that looks like a disaster and so on. But these new drill holes should do the trick. If Vegas was skittish with a 25 story building not being safe hundreds of miles away from a major Faultline, sitting directly on/next to major fault lines in a much taller tower should make anyone clutch their pearls. Not to mention living/working in the towers around it.

Last edited by caligrad; Dec 11, 2018 at 9:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2018, 4:08 PM
viewguysf's Avatar
viewguysf viewguysf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,806
There is no steel frame. Millennium Tower is completely heavy concrete, causing the weight problem for the insufficient foundation on bay fill.

As a side note, the tower is 645 feet, not 605 as illustrated above.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 5:43 PM
dubu's Avatar
dubu dubu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: bend oregon
Posts: 972
wouldn't it be easier to cut it halfway up? they just built it too tall.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 11:43 PM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
There is no steel frame. Millennium Tower is completely heavy concrete, causing the weight problem for the insufficient foundation on bay fill.

As a side note, the tower is 645 feet, not 605 as illustrated above.
Well that's even worse. You have a giant reinforced concrete box that's tilting. Major cracks in the foundation around the building and in the building itself, which obviously means the steel inside the concrete is contracting/expanding and under severe stress. Yet..... Engineers are allegedly saying "its fine"...…. And now we're supposed to believe that simply digging under the building and adding new piles to support one of the heaviest buildings on the west coast in earthquake country should do the trick.....

Ok i'll bite. But what about the tilt ? will digging down to bedrock correct the tilt? and the fact that the developer had the nerve to say that construction nearby is to blame because they shifted dirt around.....What happens when there's an earthquake??? Both LA and SF have seen sooooooo much new construction in terms of high rises and its been nearly 30 years since both have suffered major earthquakes. If shifting dirt is to blame for this towers lean, lets pray that other developers don't have the same mindset.

at this point I vote tear it down and start over. I feel bad for all those tricked into buying a condo there.

Last edited by caligrad; Dec 11, 2018 at 9:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Engineering
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:23 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.