Community Development - Blatchford - Page 7

vid · #**121** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 4:16 AM**

Thunder Bay has bus service to its airport and of the 700,000 people who go through it every year, the amount of people that take the bus to go to or leave it is about 300. Maybe 400 but that's being liberal. I've been out there many times when I've accidentally caught the wrong bus (an easy mistake at our terminal) and have never seen air passengers use the stop there. (I saw what looked like an airport employee use it once; either that or he was kicked off a flight for being grungy.) It's just a waste of 5 minutes that could be better spend serving a nearby suburb with no bus service.

A shuttle that arrived and departed based on major flights, with luggage storage space and a route that went to important destinations for frequent fliers would be more efficient. There is no good reason to have bus service to an airport just for the sake of having bus service to an airport, especially when that stop is out of the way and virtually unused.

Policy Wonk · #**122** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 6:45 AM**

Try the same in Ottawa, if the service isn't atrocious - people will use it.

I take OC Transpo between downtown Ottawa and YOW all the time.

feepa · #**123** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 2:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

The role of providing efficient regional air service to central Edmonton, the FBO's on the fringe of YYC from which Quikair and Peace Air and others operated are ten minutes from downtown Calgary. YEG isn't ten minutes from anything except Nisku.

You don't care and that is fine,

YYC is only 10 minutes from downtown Calgary if you take a helicopter, or travel in the middle of the night.
YEG is 25 minutes from the core. YOW is about 20. YYZ is about 30.

I still fail to see why we should pander to the needs of people of the ilk like you over the greater benefit of this city.

Policy Wonk · #**124** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 2:26 PM**

You have made it clear you just don't care - so why you keep coming back to this is unclear to me.

And yes, from the S.W. FBO's at YYC from which YXD was served to downtown Calgary is ten minutes straight down Deerfoot trail.

And while YYZ might be thirty minutes, if your lucky the airport on which YXD should model itself - YTZ is about five.

Daveography · #**125** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 2:38 PM**

^ The fact that we're still arguing with you is a pretty good indication that we care. We just care about different things than you. You - a Calgarian who doesn't get a say in our civic matters, jus' sayin' - want convenient access to Edmonton without having to use YEG. Beyond that, I don't think you have much interest in the matter, or in the future prosperity of Edmonton.

We - citizens of Edmonton by the way, who do have a say in our own civic matters, jus' sayin' - want the city centre airport closed. We want to see the land developed for mixed uses - residential, commercial, retail, educational, and greenspaces. We want the city to be able to collect tax revenue from these new, central neighborhoods. We want to see this land developed to take some of the pressure off our city's expanding fringes. We want developers interested in investing in our downtown to know that they can build without worrying about whether or not it's economical when capped at a certain height. And we want a permanent end to all debate about the future of this airport and and end to all attempts to return passenger service to it, which will never happen until it is closed and the runways destroyed.

Don't you dare accuse us of not caring.

feepa · #**126** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 3:02 PM**

Well said RTA

joeyedm · #**127** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 3:09 PM**

Here Here!!!!!!

Policy Wonk · #**128** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 3:31 PM**

I'm not accusing you of not caring about your community, I am saying you don't care about the essential role YXD played in regional air service. I don't think any of you dispute not caring about that.

vid · #**129** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 6:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I am saying you don't care about the essential role YXD played in regional air service.

Key word played. As in, "won't play again".

feepa · #**130** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I'm not accusing you of not caring about your community, I am saying you don't care about the essential role YXD played in regional air service. I don't think any of you dispute not caring about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Key word played. As in, "won't play again".

Vid gets it. Perhaps you should step into modern reality Policy Wonk. It's not 1995 anymore. The decision was made over 15 years ago, and it won't be reverted, plebiscite or not. We are not bringing back flights to the city center airport, and you'll just have to deal with it, or not come to Edmonton anymore (my preference is leaning to the latter with the attitude you've shown). Closing the city center airport hasn't affected many people I know that come from Calgary to Edmonton on a regular basis for business or personal pursuits, and consolidated services has given us much better air service to many other locations, without connecting through Calgary.

Make no mistake. Envision Edmonton isn't for keeping the status quo, they are not interested in maintaining the airport as it were post 1995 decision. They want to bring back full-schedule air service to this airport, and I will not let that happen.

We've gone 15 years and our city has only got much better. I only see a bright future in completely closing and redeveloping the airport over the next 15 years or more. It's not going to happen overnight either, and likely will be an empty piece of land for a few years, but this will still be a better land use than it current is.

So, if your still unclear why I enter this debate, and why I find myself at odds with what your spouting off about, get your head checked.

SHOFEAR · #**131** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 6:22 PM**

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...222/story.html

Good article by Mckeen today. Still a lot of signatures to go and not a lot of time. Bring on the bulldozers.

Daveography · #**132** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I'm not accusing you of not caring about your community, I am saying you don't care about the essential role YXD played in regional air service. I don't think any of you dispute not caring about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Key word played. As in, "won't play again".

Vid's got it. Apparently you do too in your choice of the past tense, you just choose to ignore that you get it.

And you still can't seem to get away from making grossly inaccurate accusations about us. Of course I care about the role YXD played in our history.

I care about it as much as I care about Edmonton's history as a trading post. But I'm not going to call for Fort Edmonton to be re-instated.

I care about it as much as I care about Edmonton's history as a coal mining town. But I'm not going to call for new mines to be dug out of the downtown or the river valley.

I care about it as much as I care about the history of Griesbach when it was a military base. But I'm not going to call for tearing down the new residential neighborhood that has been growing there so that CFB Edmonton can move back in.

As with these things, Edmonton doesn't need the airport to be functional in order to respect its history. The later example - Griesbach - is actually an excellent model to start from, where the base's military history has been entwined with the streets and the neighborhood from the very start, and the old army housing exists alongside the new houses.

I want YXD closed, and I want it redeveloped. But never did I or anyone say we want to erase its history. Everyone I have talked to wants to ensure that any new development incorporates the rich history of the site as part of its DNA.

So again, do not tell us that we don't care.

Policy Wonk · #**133** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 8:37 PM**

i'm not interested in your thoughts on Edmonton's rich aviation history, you don't care about the role YXD could play in regional air travel and based on that you believe it should be closed. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Others disagree and are fighting to protect the airport from an irreversible mistake. Transportation infrastructure is under siege all over the world - this isn't a unique situation.

Daveography · #**134** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

i'm not interested in your thoughts on Edmonton's rich aviation history, you don't care about the role YXD could play in regional air travel and based on that you believe it should be closed. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Others disagree and are fighting to protect the airport from an irreversible mistake. Transportation infrastructure is under siege all over the world - this isn't a unique situation.

Ok I'm done arguing with you if you're going to keep trying to tell me what I care and don't care about. You clearly have no idea what I care and don't care about, and efforts to explain it to you are being met with shifting goalposts.

Fight all you want, it's not your decision to make.

MrOilers · #**135** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 8:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Transportation infrastructure is under siege all over the world - this isn't a unique situation.

I agree. But I would argue that this airport directly undermines air transportation for the Edmonton region as a whole.

The International airport, which has longer runways, more connections, and better transportation potential than the City Center Airport can EVER hope to have, is better off without this small airport acting as a spoke for Calgary's airport. Edmonton and other air passengers stand to lose lose direct flights and connections from the International because of this airport splitting air service and cutting it off at the knees.

And while we're talking about transportation, about 4 sets of lights can be removed from the Trans-Canada Yellowhead if the airport is closed and this road can be realigned.

Coldrsx · #**136** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 8:48 PM**

(http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/phot...mall-c7873.jpg)

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/conten...an_465x370.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IALemfs84z...orn_317101.jpg)

240glt · #**137** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 8:49 PM**

What a pathetic argument. Transportation infrastructure is improving in Edmonton, not being dismantled. The muni served a small group of special interests to the detriment of the greater community. We're not interested in the role the muni could play in regional air tranport because that role is not good for Edmonton... it is good for Southern MP's and oil execs & engineering firms too cheap to set up local offices. Real air travel would suffer exponentially, but you don't seem to care about that. Typcial arrogance from our southern neighbor who seem to think they know what's best for us

CanadianCentaur · #**138** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 9:21 PM**

I'm willing to bet that YXD will be entirely shut down before 2020 or even 2015.

feepa · #**139** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 9:42 PM**

^ I'm hoping much of it will be done under the next city council. 2012/2013 should be the final days of YXD.

Respect and remember the history of YXD through museums and history markers, close the runways, and move on. Respect and encourage Edmonton aviation future at Edmonton International Airport.

rapid_business · #**140** Posted **Aug 11, 2010, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IALemfs84z...orn_317101.jpg)

And this is your favourite of the 3.