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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
Lesson learned: pay your way through school.

Doing just that. At the rate at which I'm earning, I should be able to start going to NAIT this fall. I just finished squirreling away money for my second year.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 1:23 AM
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Last edited by Pegger5; Jan 23, 2007 at 1:48 AM. Reason: How do you delete your own post?
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by yeeg View Post
Holy crap...Where do you live...Elbow Drive by the river? my taxes are $4300 but I live in Tanglewood...


Tanglewood? Is that by Tuscany?

I am very fortunate to live in a very nice inner city hood. Big trees etc...Big taxes but that is the way it goes.

I would be interested to see what the average taxes per home will be in Calgary vs. Winnipeg next July when the new taxes come out... I am sure they will be similiar especially with Calgary having increasing market value taxes.
We were very lucky as well to be in the market 4 years ago.

I feel for anyone buying their first home in Calgary... It would really suck for first time buyers and anyone moving here that were not a previous owner in Vancouver or Toronto.

Last edited by Pegger5; Jan 23, 2007 at 1:45 AM.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 2:48 AM
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Here are the stats from the web site...

----------------------------------------------------------

Canadian Ranking City Median Multiple Median Price Median Income
1 Regina 2.0 $115,000 $57,500
2 Winnipeg 2.5 $130,100 $52,300
2 Québec 2.5 $128,200 $51,100
4 Saskatoon 2.6 $138,000 $52,100
5 Ottawa 2.9 $201,500 $70,300
6 London 3.0 $166,700 $56,100
6 Oshawa 3.0 $222,900 $75,400
8 Halifax 3.1 $176,000 $56,800
9 Kitchener 3.2 $211,300 $65,500
10 Edmonton 3.5 $233,800 $66,500
10 Hamilton 3.5 $215,700 $61,300
12 St. Catharines 3.7 $193,500 $52,500
13 Montréal 3.8 $189,500 $49,700
14 Calgary 4.4 $319,000 $73,300
14 Toronto 4.4 $295,900 $66,900
16 Victoria 6.6 $370,500 $55,900
17 Vancouver 7.7 $448,800 $58,100

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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 3:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pegger5 View Post
Tanglewood? Is that by Tuscany?


I would be interested to see what the average taxes per home will be in Calgary vs. Winnipeg next July when the new taxes come out... I am sure they will be similiar especially with Calgary having increasing market value taxes. We were very lucky as well to be in the market 4 years ago.
Tanglewood is a part of Tuscany...For some reason, they names it differently...

Right now, I pay $3600 for taxes but they said the most increase YoY will be 17%...Thus about $4300 for me next year...I was fortunate to get in 3 years ago as well...People thought I was nuts to spend $435K in 2003 but it paid off...
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 3:39 AM
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elbow drive sure has some beutifull house's!!!
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 3:39 AM
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^^The only problem with taking a median is that it is NOT the average...For example, Regina has a median of house price of $115,000 but the average should be about $140,000 from what I hear...

To arrive at the median, you would simply take all the samples and stack them in order...If there are 99 samples, the 50th number would be the median...Thus, if your sample size shows a lot of houses that are at the low end of the spectrum, that would skew the median to the left and misrepresent the figures...

For example, if the first 50th number in the sample is 100,000 and the 51st number is 1,000,000 and the 99th number is 1 trillion, the median would still be 100,000 and not indiciative of the average which would be substantially higher than the 100,000 that it shows...

It would be interesting to see what the "Average" house price vs "Average" income is for all cities...
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pegger5 View Post
FYI. my taxes are $6100/year on my house... I do live close to downtown...
Must be nice to live in a house assessed at close to $1M.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 3:50 AM
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Originally Posted by h0twired View Post
Must be nice to live in a house assessed at close to $1M.
According to my calculations, his place comes in at a minimum 1.25 million
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 4:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegger5 View Post

FYI. my taxes are $6100/year on my house... I do live close to downtown...

..
$6100/year. What kind of a house do you live in? I live in a house worth over 500k, and my taxes are less than $3000 a year. I'm paying $208.00/month

I found that Calgary was expensice at first, and that was a few years ago. alot of the cost of Calgary is relative. Right now today, it seems expensive, but Calgary was far more expensive than Edmonton when I first moved here in 1999. Today the price I paid for my house is cheaper than the average price in Edmonton, but my wage is still higher than if I had the same job in Edmonton. Alot of this is based around timing.

I don't know what the prices in Winnipeg were like 8 years ago, but I would bet that they were alot cheaper 8 years ago than Calgary was 8 ago. It's all relative.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Western Spaghetti View Post
I don't know what the prices in Winnipeg were like 8 years ago, but I would bet that they were alot cheaper 8 years ago than Calgary was 8 ago. It's all relative.
10 years agoish, you could get a damn nice house in Winnipeg for around $50,000. Not a mansion, but still something nice. A brand new 1500 sq ft bungalow *might* have been around $150,000. There were a LOT of older houses in the magical $10-30,000 range. It was crazy to see people buying houses (and not just crap either) for less than the cost of a decent new car.

Incidentally, the taxes back then on a $100,000 house were into the thousands (2, maybe 3 - it's been a while). At the time, the equivalently priced house in Calgary/Edmonton was less than half that. What some people don't realize is that as house prices go up, taxes don't necessarily. The city (or at least, smart cities) change the rate as the average house price increased. You don't just double your property tax income because houses skyrocketed in price in 2 years - if this was the case, nearly every city in Canada would be rolling in the dough, as we've all seen some dramatic increases in the past couple of years.

And yeah... $6100 in property taxes in Calgary? You're living in one hell of a nice house, even in this market. Unless you bought in the past year, you would make a killing selling that. I think our taxes *might* approach $1,500 on a brand new house this year. Guess I live in the poor part of town.

Ah well, the future promises to be interesting. We all know how everyone in Vancouver and Toronto cleared out when house prices went insane.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 6:23 AM
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Interesting read, but nothing new really. Regardless of house prices people go where the opportunities are. Calgary has been much more expensive than Winnipeg for years, and there are other parts of Canada far cheaper than Winnipeg, if it was all about the cheapest houses, we'd all live in Thunder Bay, or Chicoutimi or some place like that.

What is really interesting, is I remember reading an article exactly like this one in the early 90's. It was the same premise, A guy left Calgary to move back to Brandon and live like a king. At the time the fellow sold his house in Calgary for 123,000 and bought one in Brandon for 45,000. If that guy had kept his Calgary house, it would be worth about 700k today and his mortgage would be about 500 bucks a month.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
Personally I am seriously relocating back to the Peg once I complete my business in Calgary over the next year or so. It is extremely hard to justify paying anything close to these property prices in Calgary, espcially with energy prices tanking so quickly. This is not to mention the low quality of the newer houses going up around town. They may have granite counters, but the workmanship is lacking... and they want 400K+ ... I just don't see it.
You should take a look at Vancouver then... Average Vancouver City (Westside) house price is 1 million dollars and people are still buying places up to resell. Condos get skewed quite a bit by the 1 million Mountain/Ocean/Stanley Park Views... The Shangri-la Condo/Hotel will have a condos starting from 2 million.

(Chart) Westside Houses and Condos only.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/...-rl-2006q3.jpg

I thought Toronto beat out Vancouver for Unafforability. Seems different depending on which survey you look at...

Another question is it just the City? or the Greater Area?
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 6:51 AM
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Speaking to the Free Press on Sunday, study author Wendell Cox of St. Louis had a message for Winnipeg homeowners still not sold on their city.
remember that he has his own agenda when he's putting out 'studies' like this

here's a link to the study , which is basically devoted to bashing land use planning and restrictions as the source of affordibility problems in cities.

He really oversimplifes the problem in order to further his agenda. A lot of the 'affordable' markets are mainly that way because of the decline in manufacturing and auto plant closures.. massive unemployment is going to lower land values or for poor climate(and his #31 affordable market, Ottawa, isn't exactly known for free market land development policies) . Some of them are cheap because they do follow his sorts of policies; but that has led to massive auto use and huge amounts of low-density sprawl ... which in Wendell Cox's world is a good thing.


A lot of the least affordable cities have the most desirable climates in their respective country, or are the major and most populous city. Others are some of strongest economically in the country. Many of them have to manage land use sustainably because unrestricted growth would be chaotic. Other cities are more attractive because their land use policies have created better cities and have increased the land values in these areas... wouldn't it be better if more cities were like that (not according to Wendall Cox)? People want to move to these cities, which have been made more desirable partly because they are some of the few cities that have used land use restrictions to make the city a better places to live, but Cox doesn't recognize that.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 7:18 AM
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Good news for Regina and Wnnipeg! If you miss a couple of weeks of work in Calgary you've got a better chance of missing a payment or falling behind. I don't care what anybody says!! I saw those income/housing cost ratios, and Regina and Winnipeg don't look to bad! I guess it really depends on were you want to live and what you like in a community!
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2007, 6:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Build It View Post
Interesting read, but nothing new really. Regardless of house prices people go where the opportunities are. Calgary has been much more expensive than Winnipeg for years, and there are other parts of Canada far cheaper than Winnipeg, if it was all about the cheapest houses, we'd all live in Thunder Bay, or Chicoutimi or some place like that.
.

i agree...this statistic is not really something to thump our chests over...it is a product of low growth, both economic and of population.

you can get a cheap house in winnipeg, but step out the door and you are surrounded by winnipeg....what is the premium worth to step out the door and be surrounded by vancouver?....it is a judgement that each person has to make....i probably wouldnt do it for edmonton or calgary because what i need to live a fulfilled life is no more available there than here (although i wouldnt mind a hockey team to cheer for)....cities like montreal, vancouver and toronto might offer enough of a different experience to make the cost worth it.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2007, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
i agree...this statistic is not really something to thump our chests over...it is a product of low growth, both economic and of population.

you can get a cheap house in winnipeg, but step out the door and you are surrounded by winnipeg....what is the premium worth to step out the door and be surrounded by vancouver?....it is a judgement that each person has to make....i probably wouldnt do it for edmonton or calgary because what i need to live a fulfilled life is no more available there than here (although i wouldnt mind a hockey team to cheer for)....cities like montreal, vancouver and toronto might offer enough of a different experience to make the cost worth it.
Good comments here, I think this puts it into the right perspective as it is nothing to be thumping chests over because if you seen the list of cities Winnipeg was included in you should be feeling hey I don't want to be compared to those what I would call 3rd level cities. On the other hand as mentioned by viking what's the premium worth to you as there are countless other economic factors and opportunities in other locations that need to be viewed with this whole issue.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2007, 7:15 PM
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Based on those stats, the $20k difference a year - assuming the salaries were to stay the same difference - over the course of a 25 (or 30) year mortgage is $500k extra. That alone will compensate for a substantial increase in prices. However, I agree the "averages" should be shown along with medians...as well as the sampling size.


@Freeweed - We're paying about $1800 a year in taxes in an average looking suburb in SW Calgary (1700 sq ft)...our house was assessed by the bank back in Nov at $450k.

@TV - not sure what constitutes enough "fulfilled life", but I believe many would find enough difference between Winnipeg and Calgary to want to pay extra (milder winters and mountains being the top two).
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2007, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by IntotheWest View Post
not sure what constitutes enough "fulfilled life", but I believe many would find enough difference between Winnipeg and Calgary to want to pay extra (milder winters and mountains being the top two).
It's really hard to say. On one hand yes the winters are milder (but far more inconsistent), if you are used to the winter here and the outdoor sports/activites that can be counted on from December to March, I think it would be a poor trade.

As for the mountains - yes your average person seems to put more importance on mountains for prestige factor, but for me personally they're a great place to visit every couple years. I'd rather have the proximity to the lakes, shield country, etc.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2007, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
It's really hard to say. On one hand yes the winters are milder (but far more inconsistent), if you are used to the winter here and the outdoor sports/activites that can be counted on from December to March, I think it would be a poor trade.

As for the mountains - yes your average person seems to put more importance on mountains for prestige factor, but for me personally they're a great place to visit every couple years. I'd rather have the proximity to the lakes, shield country, etc.
The mountain skiing can be counted on during winter...not a poor trade. As for lakes, yes, you are correct there are far superior lakes close to Winnipeg - however, most in Calgary don't mind the 2.5 hour drive to Invermere, or the 6 hour drive to the Okanagan/Shuswap.

Mountains and "prestige" factor? I don't know too many Calgarians that don't get out to the mountains more often than every few years...since they are only 45 minutes away in some places.

The winter weather my be "inconsistent" - if you mean daily highs of +11c one day (like today), and -5c a week later?

Anyhow - my original point is, there is enough in the Calgary area to attract folks that wouldn't normally be attracted to Winnipeg (or possibly even Edmonton). But, to each their own.
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