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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2014, 9:51 PM
jackster99 jackster99 is offline
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From the article NYguy just posted:

“Religious institutions in this city have long faced a battle in keeping up their buildings, and this is an opportunity,” Arzt said.


I'm not sure he realizes this particular "religious institution" building might actually be torn down
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2014, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jackster99 View Post
From the article NYguy just posted:

“Religious institutions in this city have long faced a battle in keeping up their buildings, and this is an opportunity,” Arzt said.


I'm not sure he realizes this particular "religious institution" building might actually be torn down

I think they're leaning more towards a redevelopment along the likes of 111 W. 57th. The church is going to benefit from it, they wouldn't do it otherwise. In either case, the church would still have an improved home on site.






Barnett has similar plans with the development on 66th...


Quote:
Extell is in advanced talks to buy the Congregation Habonim synagogue at 44 W. 66th St. in a deal valued at $75 million, with plans to build condominiums on the site, according to documents the synagogue filed in New York State Supreme Court

...The Habonim synagogue agreed to the sale after concluding that its building near Lincoln Center, completed in 1958, was increasingly costly to maintain and no longer large enough for the services it sought to provide, according to the court filing.

Under the deal, the congregation would receive $45 million in cash upfront. Extell then would build a new space for the synagogue at the base of its future condo development

As I mentioned earlier, these religious institutions are sitting on gold mines, and at a time when finances are harder, it would almost be foolish not to cash in.



Anyway, we still know very little about the development, but already speculation is in the media...


http://www.businessweek.com/articles...o-central-park

Will Gary Barnett Bring a Third Skyscraper Shadow to Central Park?


By Devin Leonard
October 14, 2014


Quote:
It appears that prolific New York developer Gary Barnett is planning another supertall, skinny tower on 57th Street in Manhattan. The Wall Street Journal reports that Extell Development, Barnett’s firm, is in negotiations to purchase a site owned by Calvary Baptist Church on the same block as Extell’s 1,004-foot One57.

The talks are pretty far along, according to the Journal, and church documents reviewed by the newspaper indicate that Fox & Fowle Architects is collaborating with Extell on a design plan. The church, meanwhile, has hired a property broker and a law firm with a deep real-estate bench. Extell already owns a 15-story apartment building behind the site.

Barnett, whom I recently profiled in Bloomberg Businessweek, surely understands that he is taking a sizable risk with his latest pursuit. He says he had all the approvals necessary to build a second tower on 57th Street with a spire that could reach as high as 1,775 feet. The area south of Central Park is zoned “as of right,” meaning there are no height limits. A third Extell tower at the site of the church could be even taller.

The news isn’t likely to be happily received by city officials and civil groups who are already unhappy about shadows that One57 and its fast-rising residential skyscraper neighbors cast into Central Park. The anti-Extell forces may not be able to do anything about the second Barnett edifice. The threat of a third Extell superstructure could galvanize Barnett’s opponents to push legislation through New York’s City Council either limiting building heights in the neighborhood or requiring a nettlesome public review process that could make it tougher for guys like him to construct future towers there.

Then again, Barnett may feel he has no choice. He has started a tower boom at the southern end of Central Park. If he doesn’t acquire the site, some other developer might.


Here's a look at the 58th Street side where Barnett has the apartment building...














I'm not sure what else Extell already has on this side. I also don't think Barnett used all of the available air rights for One57, though I could be mistaken. Anyway, I could see a potential tower shifted to the 58th St side (like Nordstrom). The money shots for either of these towers would be north and south, so the sandwich effect might not make much of a difference, especially if there is a slender tower.

Here you also see the development sites of the Park Land and 31 W. 57th.

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Last edited by NYguy; Oct 15, 2014 at 4:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 10:05 PM
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 10:10 PM
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I think a twin design complementing One57 would work. Something that looks like it, but at the same time is slightly different. Similar to how One Liberty Place complements the second tower although the two have some distinct differences. Given the proximity, if a supertall is in order, aesthetically it would work.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 10:32 PM
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Getting rid of a dreary brick monolith dotted with air con boxes? Nice.

Replacing it with what would likely be another super tall? Even better.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
I suppose if we're lucky, the only thing getting demo'd is the eastern wing of the building, where the storefront for the Salisbury Hotel and the Stacks Coin Shop is. The facade is of a noticeably lower quality, and won't be missed nearly as much as the main facade. Dump the air rights onto that portion of the parcel, and instant skinny supertall, which also blocks less views of Extells One57.
+1!
In an article last year, Barnett was lamenting his decision to not build One57 taller so he must have some air rights left and can transfer them. Anyway, I agree it will take quite some time before anything happens here.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sparkling View Post
+1!
In an article last year, Barnett was lamenting his decision to not build One57 taller so he must have some air rights left and can transfer them. Anyway, I agree it will take quite some time before anything happens here.
Well, his original proposal was 1250 feet, right? He must have those additional rights left over, unless some bizarre rule voids them, though I can't imagine that would ever happen...
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Getting rid of a dreary brick monolith dotted with air con boxes? Nice

Replacing it with what would likely be another super tall? Even better.
Corrections:

1) Getting rid of a dreary brick monolith dotted with air con boxes? 75 Million
2) Replacing it with what would likely be another super tall? PRICELESS
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I think a twin design complementing One57 would work. Something that looks like it, but at the same time is slightly different.
That would ruin One57. The design works because it's unique architecture. Consider the Tower Verre. It's a very different design, yet they are very comparable.

I would like something that could work off the existing building in the same way 111 W 57 works off of the existing Steinway Hall. The main shaft would be on the 58th Street side, closer to the park. The church would still have its presence at ground leve, but as it's in the middle of soaring towers, having a tower soar above it would be no different.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2014, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkling View Post
+1!
In an article last year, Barnett was lamenting his decision to not build One57 taller so he must have some air rights left and can transfer them. Anyway, I agree it will take quite some time before anything happens here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Well, his original proposal was 1250 feet, right? He must have those additional rights left over, unless some bizarre rule voids them, though I can't imagine that would ever happen...
One of the permits for One57 stated that Extell had just about 1.5msf to work with, but it only ended up being 850ksf. That's a decent chunk of air rights left over.

Edit:
Dug up the permit here:
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01
Proposed Totals: 1,493,514 square feet
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2014, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
One of the permits for One57 stated that Extell had just about 1.5msf to work with, but it only ended up being 850ksf. That's a decent chunk of air rights left over.

Edit:
Dug up the permit here:
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01
Proposed Totals: 1,493,514 square feet

One57 evolved to a larger, taller building, back to a smaller one. At one time, Barnett said he might not even use all of the development rights at the Nordstrom sight,
but that changed, and he's since acquired more.


One57





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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2014, 11:45 AM
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I have two questions about this project.

first...
Quote:
A third Extell tower at the site of the church could be even taller.
But this new tower will be higher than Nordstrom roof or spire?


second...

How many msf has the area shown in yellow?

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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
But this new tower will be higher than Nordstrom roof or spire?
As far as the building goes, nobody even knows that it will be half that height.

For total square footage on that lot, you'd have to add up the total square footage of the existing buildings.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2014, 6:52 PM
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i asked barnett about this today and he denied they had bought or were interested in anything but we shall see what happens...
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2014, 10:03 PM
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2014, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
i asked barnett about this today and he denied they had bought or were interested in anything but we shall see what happens...

Wow. So they flat out called the church a liar, since details first came to surface from church documents.


Quote:
http://www.cbcnyc.org/


Quote:
In cooperation with the Board of Deacons (Trustees) and the Board of Elders, the Development Communications Committee has held small group discussion meetings for all major ministry groups and any other members interested in receiving first-hand updates and giving input in the potential redevelopment of the Church's property. Calvary members approved a "Letter of Intent" authorizing the Boards to begin negotions with Extell Development utilizing professional advisory, architectural and legal services.

The Architectural Firm, FX Fowle LLC was introduced to the members at a Special Business Meeting on June 29, 2014, and will present an update on their work on September 28, 2014. Members will also receive updated information from our Real Estate Advisors at Savills, LLC and our legal team at Fried, Frank, Harris, Shivers & Jacobson.




Or he could basically be telling you something that's "factually" true, as of right now. I don't know if that statement is meant to be that they were never interested in anything, but no one ever said anything was final.

It does seem likely though that even if Extell is out of the picture, the church would want to cash in for an upgrade.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2014, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Wow. So they flat out called the church a liar, since details first came to surface from church documents.

Or he could basically be telling you something that's "factually" true, as of right now. I don't know if that statement is meant to be that they were never interested in anything, but no one ever said anything was final.

It does seem likely though that even if Extell is out of the picture, the church would want to cash in for an upgrade.
Right, it could have literally meant anything, but we shall see... here's to hoping Extell actually does buy the building.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2014, 5:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Wow. So they flat out called the church a liar, since details first came to surface from church documents.
I don't see any contradictory information here. The church said it was in negotiations with Barnett, that's all.

NY Yimby is reporting Extell hasn't bought the building, nor is interested in buying the building. No one ever said anything about Extell buying a building to begin with. Assuming the conversation was understood on both sides, and assuming Barnett was being truthful and open, I still don't necessarily see a contradiction from the church documents.

But, in any case, if Extell is negotiating, they probably aren't going to tell anyone. They already refused all comment before, when the news broke. It would frankly be stupid to do so.

And no one has any idea was is percolating. Is Extell buying the air rights, and then applying the rights to the adjacent site it already owns on 58th street? Is Extell actually interested in acquiring and redeveloping the church and hotel buildings? Is there a third partner involved? Let's wait and see.

What we do know is that Extell wouldn't have bought the 58th Street building, and wouldn't have reserved hundreds of thousands of square feet of unused air rights from One57, just for the hell of it. Barnett is generally a developer, not a flipper.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2014, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't see any contradictory information here. The church said it was in negotiations with Barnett, that's all.

It's very contradictory.


Quote:
he denied they had bought or were interested in anything

He's basically saying he's not interested in "anything", whether it be purchasing or redeveloping, or simply air rights. Anything means literally that.

But, as we said, it could just be cover.

Now is not the time for them to be making waves over it, especially with so little known about Nordstrom, and he still has to market that.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 3, 2015, 9:29 AM
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Another midtown project could reach the heavens, God willing
May 3, 2015
By Joe Anuta

Quote:
A church on West 57th Street will soon decide whether it will sell its sanctuary and 197-room hotel to a developer who could erect yet another super-tall luxury tower on a single block—further transforming the city's skyline.

A sale of the Calvary Baptist Church and the Salisbury Hotel at 123 W. 57th St. would add a sizable piece to Extell Development's years-long effort to amass a number of contiguous properties there, and would allow it to potentially build a third high-rise on the same block as its 1,000-foot-tall One57 and the 1,400-foot-tall Steinway Tower being built by JDS Development.

Extell's plans have not been made public, but observers believe the collection of parcels could permit a project similar in scale to its 75-story One57 a few doors down. The potential sale has community leaders up in arms over real estate laws that allow developers to stockpile development rights and erect super-tall buildings without public input.

The church, meanwhile, is consulting with its congregants and a higher authority to determine how it might part with an asset believed to be worth more than $100 million.


Quote:
If Extell were to tear down the church, the hotel and the three buildings, a structure of at least 325,000 square feet could be built there, according to a rough estimate based on city zoning documents and not accounting for any zoning bonuses offered for the inclusion of affordable housing or improvements to nearby subway stations.



Is 57th street going to be the densest collection of supertalls in the world, with only Lower Manhattan, the Vanderbilt corridor and the Hudson Yards being able to compete?
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