44 W Monroe

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by CANUC

Well, IMO I believe the prices are actually quite reasonable. First the comparison must be the old adage apples to apples and not condo’s to suburban homes. But if we are going to compare apples to oranges lets look at one example. On the corner of Tatum and Lincoln there is a development called Montecilla Villas, which are described as ‘from the low 2 millions’. They are two floor, stick and wood construction and in reality are nothing more than town-homes. Anyone who buys one is not looking for amenities since Paradise Valley restricts retail within its boundaries. So what are they looking for; image, exclusivity, views?

Now lets look at some the items discussed, exclusivity; you can’t get much more exclusive than living in the tallest residential building in the state of Arizona (at least for now). Amenities; an entire self enclosed community with exclusive access to a pool, spa, game room, meeting room, community room, café, concierge service etc, etc. In the center of the city minutes from everything, direct access to light rail, sporting events, concerts etc, etc. Views; it’s a high-rise. Image; this is far too subjective, what image is the individual looking for? What image do you have of someone who buys a two million dollars town-home in Paradise Valley and what image do you have of someone who buys a million dollar condo in downtown Phoenix…its to subjective.

you just contradicted yourself several times. You first said you cannont compare a high rise with suburban homes, then you proceeded to do just that. You also asked if they were being purchased for image and exclusivity... yes and yes. You told us to compare apples to apples, and then compared apples with oranges, two completely different beasts. Phoenix has such a small stock, there really is nothing to compare to. Try using a different city of comperable size, such as San Diego, Chicago, or Seattle. Chicago's most prestigious addresses will fetch prices as high as 10 million for a nice condo, but at the same time you can buy something in a just as prestigiuos neighborhood for sub 200K. It's all about stock, same with San Diego, just on a lesser scale. Prices in Phoenix will come down, and there will be a wider range of prices when someone builds a building with less amenities, or in a crappier location, while the prices on full service buildings will continue to rise.

[CANUC]

Well I read and then re-read and then re-re-read my post and don’t see how I contradicted myself. You may have just glazed over it. What I said was

First the comparison must be the old adage apples to apples and not condo’s to suburban homes. But if we are going to compare apples to oranges lets look at one example.

In other words someone else pointed out pricing in PV so the comparisons had already been made.

[HooverDam]

I again say this: If the prices in these downtown high rises are reasonable, why arent they selling out? Why are many of them not happening? Why are some taking so long to get off the ground? Obviously, there are many factors, but demand is a big one. There is not enough of a demand for people to live downtown at the current price point. People who are moving to downtown are urban pioneers, and they should be rewarded and enticed by lower prices. I'm fine w/ "luxury" towers and the like, but if there was someone who built an affordable tower, I think that would help downtown more than anything. I know that in most areas of the economy, things become available for the rich first though, so its just a matter of time before a more middle class priced tower is built in downtown.

[PHX31]

/\ I think the only way a middle class-priced tower is built downtown is if the land prices somehow drop, along with the cost of concrete, steel, and labor. Not all have to be "luxury" towers, but a completely bare bones tower would still be expensive due to intrinsic construction costs, etc, probably so expensive yet bare boned that someone would rather just buy in a luxury tower. The best hope for a tower that is semi-affordable is if there are serious breaks or concessions from the city.

[soleri]

Real-estate pros know there's a big demand for affordable high-rise condos because they get the e-mails from folks asking about them. Both Copperpointe and CityScape have mentioned tapping into this unserved market. But as PHX31 mentions, it's going to be tough since it's an inherently expensive kind of construction. Even with the city serving as a land banker, there's nothing you can do to cut costs on materials like concrete, steel, copper, aluminum, etc.

Wood frame construction on empty desert and agricultural land is fairly cheap and predictable. You can calculate your material and labor costs and deliver the product usually within six months to a year. The only problem for consumers is that they have to live in places like Surprise and Queen Creek. At some point, particularly if oil prices begin to climb sharply, people might question the wisdom of their trade-off. Until they do, high-rise condo living will be a tiny niche market in Phoenix. I wish there was something else we could do (say GROWTH BOUNDARIES) but the political climate here reflects our lifestyle choices, and "urban living" is, at best, a minority preference.

[loftlovr]

Phx needs some big companies to set up shop Downtown.
I'm not sure when this will happen.
Right now- Hayden Ferry Lakeside, Skysong and soon DMB's "One" will continue to get the relocations and new headquarters'...

Downtown needs more high tech, high salaried jobs to come in so the high rise market can be more easily justified.
Maybe if the T-Health thing Gordon spoke of comes to fruition this could happen soon.

Till then- blame land, blame greedy developers (even though the more you know of development the more you'll realize this isn't the case), blame building material cost, society, capitalism, Democracy, Free Enterprise- it won't bring an affordable high rise!

[CANUC]

Checked in on the 44 Monroe construction video feed and noticed that it appears they have begun to frame the protruding section of the spa area on the 8th floor plate. I’m going to pass by today to see if it is noticable from the street level.

[HX_Guy]

Their construction "video" annoys me, it updates once, maybe twice a day. It would be nice if it was a real-time feed like SCS's.

[HX_Guy]

This could be considered borderline paranoia ...and not to cause any panic, but why is the elevator shaft being covered up, or prepped, for what appears will be poured concrete?

[PHX31]

Because I told you... they're only building the parking garage levels. They'll open the garage, make some money, and in a couple of years when there are more buyers they'll fire up the crane again and start building the rest of the tower!!

[HX_Guy]

I know you mentioned that before, but of course I and I'm sure everyone else thought you were kidding.

Do you know something we don't or are you just speculating, because looking at the picture a couple replies back isn't looking very promising right now with that elevator shaft blocked off and you might just be right.

[PHX31]

I'm speculating... I wouldn't put it past them, but I hope it's not true.

[HX_Guy]

Alright, so then what is the deal with the elevator shaft? Anyone here in construction that can shed some light on this?

[PHX602]

I highly doubt they will open the garage and then continue the building later. They would have to lower the crane, remove the equipment and clean up the site.

[Sekkle]

Plus, they just started their "live" construction camera feed a few weeks ago, right?. It would be pretty strange if they were to start up a web cam knowing that they were just going to build a garage.

[PHX31]

/\ It's better to lower the crane for two years rather than pay $10,000 a week to rent it (or whatever it costs).

[Sekkle]

On that note, then, if their plan was to just build the garage for now, they wouldn't need to pay for the mobilization and use of a tower crane when they could do something that size with boom cranes... unless they came up with the garage-only idea in the time since they put up the tower crane.

[HX_Guy]

A boom crane needs more room to work though doesn't it? It can't be "built in" to the structure like a tower crane can. Basically they would need to set a boom crane on Monroe or 1st Ave right? And of course if they did stop now, I'm sure it wouldn't be something that was planned, but something brought about by the current real estate market and such.

It's too bad we don't have the same angle of the construction when they were at the same point with the other levels to compare and see if something similar was done before the concrete pour.

[PHX31]

who knows... maybe they just put those forms over the elevator core temporarily. As they pour and finish the deck of whatever floor they are working on now they have that little area to stage tools/equipment/laborers, etc.

[HX_Guy]

Soleri took some pictures early on which show the construction from the underground parking garage level to the ground floor...and it looks quite similar. Maybe we should all relax.