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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 5:24 PM
Canadian74 Canadian74 is offline
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It seems where there is a higher % of immigrant population, the incomes are lower.

Toronto -> Brampton, Scarborough, Markham, Etobicoke etc
Vancouver -> Surrey
Calgary -> NE

But as someone else said earlier, household incomes would probably not be that low since household size would be larger in these communities generally
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 5:50 PM
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Toronto $325 262
Montreal $313 641
Calgary $231 125
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 6:57 PM
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Interesting how the Calgary CMA has the highest proportion of very high census tracts (13%) and the highest proportion of very low census tracts (11%). Meaning by this measure it's the most unequal CMA.
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 7:00 PM
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Interesting to note that there's a lot of "Scarborough spillover" in southern Markham but very little red in Vaughan (i.e. the 416/905 boundary is much sharper). This is perhaps due to Vaughan's rather late development.

Last edited by Docere; Dec 9, 2015 at 7:26 PM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
It's weird, "poor" Richmond (where I recently stayed for about a week, at the Sheraton right on Westminster Hwy near Richmond's urban core) looked nicer and more vibrant to me than some of the middle or even upper income areas in Winnipeg.

Some areas just don't show this stuff as readily, I suppose.

EDIT: I guess there is that relativity factor too as noted in the posts just before mine.
Apart from the way income is reported by immigrants (which I'm agnostic about - because it's hard to prove or disprove, at least using census statistics), another thing to keep in mind is that while Richmond may not be where many of wealthy Chinese people live, it is a place where many wealthy Chinese people shop and entertain - if they are "doing Chinese stuff".

So many of the Chinese restaurants and business/services are located in Richmond, and the large Chinese population in the southern part of the City of Vancouver use Richmond as their commercial centre. If you see expensive cars rolling around, those might not necessarily be people living in Richmond.

Another reason you might have gotten the impression that Richmond is quite wealthy is because Vancouver and the South Coast of BC has a culture (and climate) that supports good landscaping.

Planting flowers and ornamental plants in front of low income apartment complexes makes a huge difference in outward appearance. The other city that always struck me as having meticulous landscaping - and always appeared "richer" than it really was - was Phoenix. You would never guess from the desert xeriscaping and well-positioned cacti in front of strip malls and gas stations that Phoenix is actually a pretty poor metropolitan region by US standards.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Apart from the way income is reported by immigrants (which I'm agnostic about - because it's hard to prove or disprove, at least using census statistics), another thing to keep in mind is that while Richmond may not be where many of wealthy Chinese people live, it is a place where many wealthy Chinese people shop and entertain - if they are "doing Chinese stuff".

So many of the Chinese restaurants and business/services are located in Richmond, and the large Chinese population in the southern part of the City of Vancouver use Richmond as their commercial centre. If you see expensive cars rolling around, those might not necessarily be people living in Richmond.

Another reason you might have gotten the impression that Richmond is quite wealthy is because Vancouver and the South Coast of BC has a culture (and climate) that supports good landscaping.

Planting flowers and ornamental plants in front of low income apartment complexes makes a huge difference in outward appearance. The other city that always struck me as having meticulous landscaping - and always appeared "richer" than it really was - was Phoenix. You would never guess from the desert xeriscaping and well-positioned cacti in front of strip malls and gas stations that Phoenix is actually a pretty poor metropolitan region by US standards.
Why are you going to such efforts to cover up blatant tax evasion? Yes, Chinese in Vancouver proper are richer, but Richmond is still a suburb with $1,000,000+ average house prices, and that rise has come with massive Chinese immigration. I remember when Richmond was seen like Langley is today.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2015, 8:30 PM
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^ It has to be more than just landscaping. Between the attractive new buildings, loads of apparently thriving (and yes, mostly Asian-oriented) storefront businesses and the sort-of posh vibe given by things like Richmond Centre mall, the various parks around the area, the nice cars and what not, it all feels quite nice. Yes, there are definitely pockets of shabbiness (mostly in the form of some dingy industrial buildings here and there), and once you go farther south you start to run into some slightly run down residential areas.

But at all times in Richmond I felt like I was in nice, pleasant surroundings with a strong sense of social order. By contrast, in some of the poorer parts of Winnipeg, you know you're in a poor and oftentimes rough area...
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2016, 11:18 PM
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Had a bit of a look at the "very low income" area of Surrey. Seems like this is mostly "McMansions", often 4000+ sf homes, built about <25 years ago and worth about $700,000-$1,100,000.

However, if you look at the actually census data you start to understand. Ex this section of the neighbourhood:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.12920...7i13312!8i6656
Bound by 70a Ave, 127a St, 68a Ave and 126 St.

If you count the number of houses on google maps, there's 99 of them. However, according to census data, this area contains 272 dwelling units, of which 246 are occupied, with a total of 1046 residents. So in other words, the typical house is actually a triplex or at the very least a duplex (avg 2.75 units/house) and is home to an average of 10.6 residents.

The census data also reports that this neighbourhood contains no single family homes, only duplexes (8% of units) and low rise apartments in buildings with 3+ units (92% of units).
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 12:09 AM
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If you look at the 28 GTA census tracts that slipped from low to very low income between 2005 and 2012, the housing characteristics are rather different from those that were very low income in 2005 or earlier.

Here's the map of when different GTA census tracts became very low income.



For the ones that slipped to very low post-2005, only 35.30% of units were in apartment buildings of >2 units, less than the average for the CMA as a whole!

For the census tracts that slipped between 1990 and 2000, 80.64% of units were in apartment buildings of >2 units.


http://swontariourbanist.blogspot.ca...-shifting.html
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashok View Post
I said so because Montreal, from what I saw, had the lowest average per capita income of all those cities.


Montreal: $41 597,
Winnipeg: $42 033,
Vancouver: $43 101
Halifax: 44 106,
Hamilton: $45 512,
Toronto: $46 666,
Ottawa: $50 592,
Calgary: $63 322,
Due to the cost of living though, I would argue someone making 40K in Montreal is doing quite decently but 40K in Toronto or Vancouver is basically a poverty wage...
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2016, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Due to the cost of living though, I would argue someone making 40K in Montreal is doing quite decently but 40K in Toronto or Vancouver is basically a poverty wage...
40k is enough to buy a house in the exurbs.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 3:45 PM
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Closest thing I could find. My neighbourhood is within the second-poorest area by this measure.

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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 5:31 PM
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The Toronto one is kinda funny. I pretty much stick to middle income areas. Avoid the upper and lower area's like the plague. West of Bathurst to Dufferin is pretty much the only part of Toronto I go in.

It's amazing how in real life these income differences are just as obvious in person as they are on that map.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Closest thing I could find. My neighbourhood is within the second-poorest area by this measure.

It doesn't mean so much to me, it's basically which regions have poor people which directly ties to how much you need a car. The one blessed thing about st john's is that there seems to be absolutely no definite class barrier between rich and poor outside of car ownership.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 5:38 PM
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I think it runs a little deeper than that. I could probably guess someone's socio-economic status by accent.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by memph View Post
If you look at the 28 GTA census tracts that slipped from low to very low income between 2005 and 2012, the housing characteristics are rather different from those that were very low income in 2005 or earlier.

Here's the map of when different GTA census tracts became very low income.



For the ones that slipped to very low post-2005, only 35.30% of units were in apartment buildings of >2 units, less than the average for the CMA as a whole!

For the census tracts that slipped between 1990 and 2000, 80.64% of units were in apartment buildings of >2 units.


http://swontariourbanist.blogspot.ca...-shifting.html
Yeah I think too is in this context it's not just a numerical difference, it seems these numbers are in direct reflection of living in ghettoplex's, million dollar homes, or just renting an average place.

So when a place moves between brackets it reflects a different ownership demographic as well.


With my limited knowledge of toronto, it seems there's a well established boundary between living in ghetto as fuck city life, ultra yuppie city life, and something in between. In my experience liking Toronto is directly based around how willing self critical you are of where you should be living.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I think it runs a little deeper than that. I could probably guess someone's socio-economic status by accent.
If you mean specifically among townies I agree, but even saying that doesn't explain where people live in 2016. A skeet with a car is just as likely to flee to the burbs as some hipster is to live in rabbittown. Obviously in the past it was different and things might start making more sense again now.

EDIT: Personally I also think the merchant class(upper class townies) are some of the trashiest people I've ever met.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 11:16 PM
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Amazing how so many homes have been ripped down and replaced in Richmond despite the outrageous costs. All this while incomes seem so relatively low.

Good thing I don't have a suspicious nature or I would think someone isn't declaring their income.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2016, 9:06 PM
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My God, the average incomes are way out of whack compared to average home prices (notably in Vancouver and Toronto)!!!
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  #60  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2016, 1:03 AM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Due to the cost of living though, I would argue someone making 40K in Montreal is doing quite decently but 40K in Toronto or Vancouver is basically a poverty wage...
Yeah, city rents in Toronto are basically double what they are in Montreal. Montreal rents are about on par with Kitchener and Hamilton, maybe even slightly cheaper. Ottawa seems somewhere in between Montreal and Toronto.
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