DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Tykendo]

Time to get rid of that ordinance. Add some flair to Denver's skyline at night for crying out loud. On a brighter note(no pun intended), the Confluence seems to finally be getting it's crown paneling.

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by Matt

Denver has an ordinance that prohibits exterior accent illumination and crown illumination on buildings.

That seems like something implemented to help planes flying into Stapleton, but that's long gone. Does anyone know the reason for this rule? I don't think light pollution should be a strong argument when the light is downtown...

[twister244]

Nighttime lighting (or the lack of) was the first thing I noticed when I moved here nearly three years ago. It really is a bit sad. I have seen the Confluence lighting tested at night and it's absolutely stunning. We also have seen strip lighting up/down 1144, which isn't crown, but it's better than nothing. If there is an ordinance, get rid of that crap........

And if the ordinance were removed, you could put lighting on existing buildings that never had lighting to begin with. Just imagine for a second.... flood lights going up the side of Republic Plaza at night showing off the white color at night......

Would take very little to make the skyline 100 times better at night.

[Matt]

My reference to an anti-illumination ordinance was tongue-in-cheek, as I'm not aware of any legally-binding restrictions. However, now I'm really giving credence to the notion that Denver *does* impose some form of restriction that either prohibits or strongly discourages the kind of profound and epic illumination displays we see in other cities.

Let's face it - if 1144 Fifteenth Street were in a city like Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte or Miami (just to name a few), the building would be bathed in light from podium to the crown, fully ablaze with the side notch lighting complementing the crown - perhaps even using rotating color loops to put on a fascinating color show at night that would astound both citizens and tourists alike. In Denver, nothing. Complete darkness. No crown lighting, and as far as I know, the side notch lighting was "tested" for a few nights but isn't permanent - I'm not sure if that too has been cancelled.

Either Denver does - indeed - strongly restrict (via ordinance or "gentlemen's agreement") the exterior illumination of its buildings, or the city is beyond profoundly ignorant on how to encourage a dazzling, engaging, post-modern skyline that is able to compete with our global counterparts. I'm not sure the developers are to blame; Hines came in with big plans for crown lighting when they released initial renderings for 1144, and Block 162 featured prominent crown lighting as recently as last month. There was no reason for these developers to cancel their illumination plans after they had already released renderings indicating their desire to incorporate said illumination. At this point, I refuse to believe that so many proposed illumination plans were cancelled by simple happenstance. There certainly seem to be external factors at play here, discouraging developers from lighting up their towers. This can't be chalked up to pure coincidence, as our dark skyline speaks for itself.

The city must be interfereing or discouraging skyscraper illumination in some form, but I can't fathom why or how. It's not like we can see the mountains at night, so one would think Denver were to encourage a bright and dazzling skyline at night when the mountains disappear and we finally have the opportunity to display some civic pride without the mountains being our "wingman".

[fleury]

Originally Posted by Matt

My reference to an anti-illumination ordinance was tongue-in-cheek, as I'm not aware of any legally-binding restrictions. However, now I'm really giving credence to the notion that Denver *does* impose some form of restriction that either prohibits or strongly discourages the kind of profound and epic illumination displays we see in other cities.

Let's face it - if 1144 Fifteenth Street were in a city like Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte or Miami (just to name a few), the building would be bathed in light from podium to the crown, fully ablaze with the side notch lighting complementing the crown - perhaps even using rotating color loops to put on a fascinating color show at night that would astound both citizens and tourists alike. In Denver, nothing. Complete darkness. No crown lighting, and as far as I know, the side notch lighting was "tested" for a few nights but isn't permanent - I'm not sure if that too has been cancelled.

Either Denver does - indeed - strongly restrict (via ordinance or "gentlemen's agreement") the exterior illumination of its buildings, or the city is beyond profoundly ignorant on how to encourage a dazzling, engaging, post-modern skyline that is able to compete with our global counterparts. I'm not sure the developers are to blame; Hines came in with big plans for crown lighting when they released initial renderings for 1144, and Block 162 featured prominent crown lighting as recently as last month. There was no reason for these developers to cancel their illumination plans after they had already released renderings indicating their desire to incorporate said illumination. At this point, I refuse to believe that so many proposed illumination plans were cancelled by simple happenstance. There certainly seem to be external factors at play here, discouraging developers from lighting up their towers. This can't be chalked up to pure coincidence, as our dark skyline speaks for itself.

The city must be interfereing or discouraging skyscraper illumination in some form, but I can't fathom why or how. It's not like we can see the mountains at night, so one would think Denver were to encourage a bright and dazzling skyline at night when the mountains disappear and we finally have the opportunity to display some civic pride without the mountains being our "wingman".

I don't really agree with the sentiment here. One of the things I love about this city is that Denver is a metropolis in the middle of nowhere. Far from any other major city...so different from the West Coast and East Coast (and Midwest as well). We are tied to our rugged landscape and easy access to wilderness. I don't think we need to light our buildings up like the sun every night like every city in China or along the East Coast. I think that its cool that we can still see our stars and live in such an urban place. Honestly I wish there would be more light restrictions, dark sky laws in Denver would be amazing.

I think a lot of people compare Denver to big cities all across the globe and think for some reason that Denver isn't cool enough till we have exactly what they have. I think we should make Denver unique. I'm all for growth and density, and hope Denver continues to grow at the same rate we currently are - but hate to think of Denver just becoming some cheap copy of a city elsewhere.

[SnyderBock]

Cheap copy? Showing off our architectural wonders gives us identity and recognition. If you think you can see the stars at night anywhere in Denver, you probably have never seen a dark, star filled sky. I can count all the stars visible in Denver, in one night. Denver doesn't have any world class observatories on top of Mount Evans or even Pikes Peak (over 14k feet high, paved road access, close to major cities and research institutions), because there are no stars in the sky. There is no point in limiting light pollution at this point, it was a lost cause 30 years ago.

[CastleScott]

^ Very true and as a young boy growing up on a small farm outside Broomfield I remember seeing the Milky Way and orbiting satellites back in the late 60s-early 70s after that the light glow of metro Denver eliminated the Milky Way and the satellites (I'm in my late 50s btw). I think its a disgrace that downtown doesn't allow nice night-time illumination-yes I moved away over 3 yrs ago-this is certainly something I don't miss...

[rds70]

FYI: The site plan for 1144 15th was just amended to include the vertical lighting in the notches.

[HighSt.]

Originally Posted by Matt

My reference to an anti-illumination ordinance was tongue-in-cheek, as I'm not aware of any legally-binding restrictions. However, now I'm really giving credence to the notion that Denver *does* impose some form of restriction that either prohibits or strongly discourages the kind of profound and epic illumination displays we see in other cities.

I think that this night lighting situation is bird/bat-related.

It is well-documented that night lighting on tall buildings tends to attract and kill birds. Even small cities like Indianapolis, where I used to live, have major issues with this. The 49-Story Salesforce tower there has turned off it's lighting on a seasonal basis to address this issue.

Perhaps this is a Colorado state law designed to keep birds from dying??

[rds70]

Interesting proposal for another small office building on Platte Street adjacent to REI. 26,000 square feet of space:

[DenvertoLA]

Dang, that brick looks nice

[twister244]

Originally Posted by rds70

FYI: The site plan for 1144 15th was just amended to include the vertical lighting in the notches.

Good.... there's some good news on the "lighting" front at least. Maybe the Confluence lighting is still being approved by the city.

That building next to REI looks great. I really like how developers have blended their new buildings really well into the Central Platte area.

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by HighSt.

I think that this night lighting situation is bird/bat-related.

It is well-documented that night lighting on tall buildings tends to attract and kill birds. Even small cities like Indianapolis, where I used to live, have major issues with this. The 49-Story Salesforce tower there has turned off it's lighting on a seasonal basis to address this issue.

Perhaps this is a Colorado state law designed to keep birds from dying??

Well, hello there fellow former Hoosier/317er.

[roshea999]

Originally Posted by rds70

Interesting proposal for another small office building on Platte Street adjacent to REI. 26,000 square feet of space:

I like it - and it replaces that parking lot behind My Brothers Bar. One of my favorite spots in town (the restaurant, not the parking lot).

Originally Posted by jbssfelix

Well, hello there fellow former Hoosier/317er.

I went to IU for my undergrad. Always love a trip back to bloomington!

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by roshea999

I went to IU for my undergrad. Always love a trip back to bloomington!

Gave them 6 years and lots of $$ for two degrees (although I arguably gave Kilroy's, Nick's, etc even more).

[roshea999]

I was on the 4.5 year plan! And I hear ya. It wasn't cheap, but it was a great experience. I wish I could find some mozzarella sticks like they make at Opie's anywhere in Denver. And I do miss mother bears.

Do we know who owns that lot? Is it My Brothers Bar or someone else? I've parked there a few times when eating there, not sure if they owned it or someone else.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't really agree with the sentiment here. One of the things I love about this city is that Denver is a metropolis in the middle of nowhere. Far from any other major city...so different from the West Coast and East Coast (and Midwest as well). We are tied to our rugged landscape and easy access to wilderness. I don't think we need to light our buildings up like the sun every night like every city in China or along the East Coast. I think that its cool that we can still see our stars and live in such an urban place. Honestly I wish there would be more light restrictions, dark sky laws in Denver would be amazing.

I think a lot of people compare Denver to big cities all across the globe and think for some reason that Denver isn't cool enough till we have exactly what they have. I think we should make Denver unique. I'm all for growth and density, and hope Denver continues to grow at the same rate we currently are - but hate to think of Denver just becoming some cheap copy of a city elsewhere.

Colorado already has a city like that... it's called Pueblo.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Cheap copy? Showing off our architectural wonders gives us identity and recognition. If you think you can see the stars at night anywhere in Denver, you probably have never seen a dark, star filled sky. I can count all the stars visible in Denver, in one night. Denver doesn't have any world class observatories on top of Mount Evans or even Pikes Peak (over 14k feet high, paved road access, close to major cities and research institutions), because there are no stars in the sky. There is no point in limiting light pollution at this point, it was a lost cause 30 years ago.

True!

A few years ago I was driving from Kansas City to Denver and was somewhere out in western KS or eastern CO and after it became dark, I realized I could see the stars. I pulled off I70 and down a dark road just to get out of the car and look up. It was amazing!

[fleury]

Originally Posted by Matt

Colorado already has a city like that... it's called Pueblo.

LOLL!

I dunno, I'm sure nobody here agrees with me and that's fine. I just think it would be cool to be a major city that gives a damn. Lit up towers are pretty and all, but it would be sick to come to Denver as an outsider and enjoy the urban experience and still see our huge skies. Would be like a movie. Like I was saying Denver has a unique opportunity to be world class, super dense, and also eco friendly / respect the land. Love whats happening along the Platte with the restoration at river mile and what not, why not take it even further? Eco tourism is becoming a noteworthy trend. We can have both ends of the spectrum!

I don't want to come off as anti-development at all, because I'm VERY pro development. I hope we can do it in a smart way however, and lighting may be a very small part of that - but it does make a difference. I can see the stars from my place near Sloans Lake, certain nights are way better than others. Its nice to look up and still feel like you are in Colorado - AND enjoy the city simultaneously.

The bird deaths are an interesting point though. I've heard that before. Like moths to a flame. WACK!

[derek.berardi]

Feast your eyes on the new Market Street Station! This is some next level for downtown retail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqQMEOOTIrE