Calgary Urban Initiative

[DizzyEdge]

I see their website is now just a holding site with ads, so I'm guessing it is completely defunct now?

This group, or something similar needs to be out there critiquing proposals and enlightening the public. Ideas?

[Wooster]

It's dead. As I was not living in calgary, I tried to pass the effort along to some other people, but no one seemed willing to really step up and run it. I'd say CivicCamp is a pretty well organized group, that could fulfull the role CUI was.

[DizzyEdge]

Hmm yeah that had sort of fallen off my radar. I've checked out their website and such. Do you think they're the sort of organization who could take the wind out of say Rick Bell's sails and publicly counterpoint anti urban design media? Or would be willing to publicly criticize any city plans? I'm concerned it's another one of these 'stakeholder' orgs where only the already-converted attend and then the media release is about how it represents the views of all Calgarians.

[frinkprof]

I'm a little unsure about what you're asking DizzyEdge. Could you rephrase? Maybe give an example of an issue you would like such a group to tackle, and how you'd like them to do so?

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah sorry, I know I wasn't completely clear. Currently I'm finding that the way things are going is the anti-density anti-urbanist groups and media have all the exposure, and the pro- forces at the City tend to have to be reactive to media reports creating doubt in the minds of Calgarians of the worthiness of those endeavors. To me, something like the former CUI could be a group which could pick up some of the slack from the poor communications that seem to come out of the city, and go toe toe with the media stories. To me the Civic Camp seems more like the Partners in Planning workshops but on steroids, which is great, but not really the same as what the CUI used to be. A group that would help get public buy-in for densification (reporting WHY it needs to be done vs "we're the city and this is what we're doing"), perhaps have annual awards for best (and worst?) building / urban design, etc etc.

Hopefully I explained a little bit better lol.

Also I think it is important as the 2010 election comes up.

[frinkprof]

^I too would like to see something like what the CUI was trying to achieve. A citizen's group to provide a voice and advocacy for urbanism. I'm only halfway familiar with Civic Camp, but they don't seem to get much play in the media or put much literature out themselves. I think there's support for the "urbanist" stances out there, but it is really fragmented, and the media largely represents the other side of things.

Another thing I'd like to see is a transit-riders' advocacy group. To my knowledge, none exists in Calgary. There is a group in Edmonton, Transit Riders' Union of Edmonton (http://www.true.apirg.org/). One of their successes was that they got some of the City Councillors to take transit, exclusively, for a week to all their appointments and other commitments. Anyway, this is a bit of a different topic.

[DizzyEdge]

One of the main examples of the fragmented message from the pro-urban side in my mind was with PlanIt. Particularly the study which indicated that PlanIt would save the city 11 billion dollars or something, but this study was only commissioned after other groups used the media to complain. In my mind any studies which showed huge cost savings should have not only been done before a media outcry, but should have been the impetus for PlanIt in the first place. I think there are enough media savvy anti urban forces that the city, or a citizen group, needs to do a big job educating the public and getting public buy-in before attempting to pass these sorts of things, or it just turns into a big media crap fest.

By the way I nominate Bigtime to lead the new group since he refused our calls to run for Mayor

Perhaps I'll just start a blog

[LFRENCH]

Hey wooster

do you have any of the former articles? I would love to read the CUI's take on some of the previous issues.

[Wooster]

Don't think I do. They were all stored on the website.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

By the way I nominate Bigtime to lead the new group since he refused our calls to run for Mayor

Unfortunately I'm one of those guys that couldn't keep CUI running after Wooster left for Toronto. Now with the baby and everything else I just can't commit to trying to get something like this up and running.

[Surrealplaces]

Maybe a website similar to Urbantoronto.ca would be a good way to go. It has a forum similar to SSP, and I think it would be fairly easy to get off the ground. With a website like that, maybe a group can spawn off of the site.

[Wooster]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Calgary needs better leadership rather than more public advocacy. Advocacy is great, and certainly has its role, but it wields little actual power to affect change compared to just having good leadership where power is held (city hall, the Provice, the development community, institutional leaders etc). People who care about urbanism would probably best put their efforts into getting great people elected.

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by Wooster

The more I think about it, the more I think that Calgary needs better leadership rather than more public advocacy. Advocacy is great, and certainly has its role, but it wields little actual power to affect change compared to just having good leadership where power is held (city hall, the Provice, the development community, institutional leaders etc). People who care about urbanism would probably best put their efforts into getting great people elected.

That makes sense. The question is how do you get the people who care about urbanism together, or get those people hooked up with political leaders?

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Wooster

The more I think about it, the more I think that Calgary needs better leadership rather than more public advocacy. Advocacy is great, and certainly has its role, but it wields little actual power to affect change compared to just having good leadership where power is held (city hall, the Provice, the development community, institutional leaders etc). People who care about urbanism would probably best put their efforts into getting great people elected.

I think better leadership is hugely important, obviously if the people in power are wishy washy about urbanism then it's a big uphill battle. However I think advocacy is still important, but one targeted at educating the general public, the Sun readers, the ones suspicious of all these urbanism plans, the ones who whose knee-jerk reaction would be to be against densification plans. Obviously some will never be convinced, but many are just ignorant of the reasoning, or simply annoyed at the lack of explanation, and could be brought into the fold.

[fusili]

I agree with Wooster- get people elected!

On that note, two Civic Campers are running for election (at least attendees at the Civic Camp forums)- Zak Pashak in Ward 8 and Gian Carlo Carra in Ward 9. Civic Camp does not seem to be a formal organization with formal membership, but does seem to be well organized. However, I imagine Carra and Pashak decided to run before Civic Camp was organized and saw it as a vehicle for organization, rather than the reason they are running. Can't speak for them of course.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I think better leadership is hugely important, obviously if the people in power are wishy washy about urbanism then it's a big uphill battle. However I think advocacy is still important, but one targeted at educating the general public, the Sun readers, the ones suspicious of all these urbanism plans, the ones who whose knee-jerk reaction would be to be against densification plans. Obviously some will never be convinced, but many are just ignorant of the reasoning, or simply annoyed at the lack of explanation, and could be brought into the fold.

I think you have good point here. I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm tired of trying to unravel the yarn that people like Rick Bell have spun in the heads of my friends, family, coworkers, etc. I've talked to some people until I'm blue in the face, and I've had a lot of people understand the arguments, which is good. However, it's just one person talking to them about it, and while they might see the other side for a day, there's Rick Bell the next morning with a new column, or another story in the Herald with a quote from UDI or a "study" by Wendell Cox, or the CTV news with Blinky saying something like "Plan-It needs to come back down to earth." No one from the other side is getting the attention of the public.

It would be great if there were some other literature being put out there in some form that you could point people to as a counter-point. Some well-reasoned arguments that are written in such a way, and with some good use of examples that people can relate to, so that people can at least see another side of things. Importantly, it would be coming from a source that isn't the City, since a lot of people don't trust them as a source. Also, it would be good to have a quote in some articles about projects and initiatives from such a group, some radio interviews, etc. I know CUI did that a bit.

Having leadership and people in places to make actual decisions is important. However, public buy-in is also important and that is where an advocacy group can come in.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

I think you have good point here. I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm tired of trying to unravel the yarn that people like Rick Bell have spun in the heads of my friends, family, coworkers, etc. I've talked to some people until I'm blue in the face, and I've had a lot of people understand the arguments, which is good. However, it's just one person talking to them about it, and while they might see the other side for a day, there's Rick Bell the next morning with a new column, or another story in the Herald with a quote from UDI or a "study" by Wendell Cox, or the CTV news with Blinky saying something like "Plan-It needs to come back down to earth." No one from the other side is getting the attention of the public.

It would be great if there were some other literature being put out there in some form that you could point people to as a counter-point. Some well-reasoned arguments that are written in such a way, and with some good use of examples that people can relate to, so that people can at least see another side of things. Importantly, it would be coming from a source that isn't the City, since a lot of people don't trust them as a source. Also, it would be good to have a quote in some articles about projects and initiatives from such a group, some radio interviews, etc. I know CUI did that a bit.

Having leadership and people in places to make actual decisions is important. However, public buy-in is also important and that is where an advocacy group can come in.

Exactly. More than "this is good planning practice" or "they do it this way in Vancouver and Portland", but more present it to the public as "here is the problem" and then "here is the solution we have come up with".

It typically seems to end up "here is the solution", then the Sun rants about Silly Hall, then the city is on the defensive and then tries to explain the "why".

[bob1954]

Wooster was "right on" about leadership. The city just went thru a fantastic building boom... and sad to say a lot of residential projects that probably should have been built...won't.

[DizzyEdge]

Just wanted to bump this, and wondering if anyone would be interested in getting involved in something like this.

[Wooster]

I feel like CivicCamp could fulfill this role with a standing committee on planning and urban design issues. It's already pretty well organized.