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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 1:59 AM
uptownres uptownres is offline
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I'd like to chime in and say that I have also been a bit surprised by the strong response to this objection. One of the things that attracted me to Saint John 5 years ago when I moved here was the historic uptown and how uniform the architectural style was. I'm not a developer or a home owner in the heritage district, so I don't have an intimate understanding of how those regulations affect those folks, but it strikes me that they have done a good job of preserving and encouraging appropriate development.

Sure, the Irving HQ looks to be a nice addition to the city. But as far as I can tell it isn't the job boom that folks think it is, but rather a consolidation of employees who are currently scattered around in different facilities across Saint John.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a check and balance system that allows for appeals in good faith. I'm certain there are folks here who wish that the same process had been available when the Irvings bought a portion of an Uptown residential street (Elliot Row) to turn into surface parking.

I am all for development, but I don't think it's a horrible thing for us to carefully consider the compromises we are willing to make to that end.
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 11:27 AM
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JHikka JHikka is offline
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Originally Posted by uptownres View Post
Sure, the Irving HQ looks to be a nice addition to the city. But as far as I can tell it isn't the job boom that folks think it is, but rather a consolidation of employees who are currently scattered around in different facilities across Saint John.

...

I am all for development, but I don't think it's a horrible thing for us to carefully consider the compromises we are willing to make to that end.
Essentially my feelings on the project.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 11:38 AM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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Originally Posted by uptownres View Post
I'd like to chime in and say that I have also been a bit surprised by the strong response to this objection. One of the things that attracted me to Saint John 5 years ago when I moved here was the historic uptown and how uniform the architectural style was. I'm not a developer or a home owner in the heritage district, so I don't have an intimate understanding of how those regulations affect those folks, but it strikes me that they have done a good job of preserving and encouraging appropriate development.

Sure, the Irving HQ looks to be a nice addition to the city. But as far as I can tell it isn't the job boom that folks think it is, but rather a consolidation of employees who are currently scattered around in different facilities across Saint John.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a check and balance system that allows for appeals in good faith. I'm certain there are folks here who wish that the same process had been available when the Irvings bought a portion of an Uptown residential street (Elliot Row) to turn into surface parking.

I am all for development, but I don't think it's a horrible thing for us to carefully consider the compromises we are willing to make to that end.
I tend to agree with you as well and as a homeowner in a designated heritage area (half a block from the proposed site) I have lived these regulations for 10 years. In my opinion they are likely too strict and rigid and I would push for some relaxation of the bylaws - as I've stated before we must be pragmatic in our approach to heritage conservation. The purist approach may be appropriate for Colonial Williamsburg but Uptown Saint John - not so sure!

I do bleieve that there will be a job boom of sorts with this construction - certainly with the building itself but again IMO, the spin offs and revival of the Uptown core that this will spur will mean long term growth - both residential and commercial. Am I naive? Quite possibly but I would much rather sit here and have hope. So, here's hoping for a speedy resolution and shovels in the ground and a crane on our skyline for the first time in 50 years!
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 11:59 AM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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Originally Posted by UptownJeff View Post
So, here's hoping for a speedy resolution and shovels in the ground and a crane on our skyline for the first time in 50 years!
There was a crane for Harbourfront Residences, and Chateau Saint John not that long ago.
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 12:04 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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There was a crane for Harbourfront Residences, and Chateau Saint John not that long ago.
I stand corrected! Let me rephrase - A crane on our skyline for the first "significant" commercial structure in 50 years. Not to understate the significance of the other 2 developments but I think this one is a game changer!
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 5:35 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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I stand corrected! Let me rephrase - A crane on our skyline for the first "significant" commercial structure in 50 years. Not to understate the significance of the other 2 developments but I think this one is a game changer!

Haha. I was just being difficult. :p I totally agree with you though!
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2016, 5:47 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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Haha. I was just being difficult. :p I totally agree with you though!
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2016, 3:39 PM
Sabien Sabien is offline
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Great turn out for the rally in King's Square today!

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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 11:39 PM
Scarface Scarface is offline
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I'm going to post this here. It's about the Irving LTD's new head office Building, and Mr. Bezanson appeal against the construction of it.
http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/heritage-...cism-1.2854700
Am I the only one who thinks he is trying to play the victim to get his way He claims to have received threat, and is also being bullied.
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2016, 12:25 AM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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Originally Posted by Scarface View Post
I'm going to post this here. It's about the Irving LTD's new head office Building, and Mr. Bezanson appeal against the construction of it.
http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/heritage-...cism-1.2854700
Am I the only one who thinks he is trying to play the victim to get his way He claims to have received threat, and is also being bullied.
I question his motives but really can't question his right to appeal. I also support the rights of the majority to rally and support this initiative. What it does is underscore the need to modify the heritage bylaws to be more pragmatic. As a homeowner within the heritage district, I live these restrictions every day and while I support maintaining the overall fabric of the community I also support the relaxation of many of the rules. Heritage can and does coexist quite nicely with other styles both here and other jurisdictions. Saint John is not Colonial Williamsburg....it is a city where people work, live and play and must be able to adapt to the changing needs of society if we are to grow and survive in the 21st century.
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2016, 3:05 AM
RR Drummer RR Drummer is offline
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Originally Posted by UptownJeff View Post
I question his motives but really can't question his right to appeal. I also support the rights of the majority to rally and support this initiative. What it does is underscore the need to modify the heritage bylaws to be more pragmatic. As a homeowner within the heritage district, I live these restrictions every day and while I support maintaining the overall fabric of the community I also support the relaxation of many of the rules. Heritage can and does coexist quite nicely with other styles both here and other jurisdictions. Saint John is not Colonial Williamsburg....it is a city where people work, live and play and must be able to adapt to the changing needs of society if we are to grow and survive in the 21st century.
Well said!! I couldn't agree more.
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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2016, 7:56 PM
RaginRonic RaginRonic is offline
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One thing that just crossed my mind about the IOL HQ project is that it could cause the start of a rather huge building renovation boom in the SouthCentral Peninsula. Having an office of that kind could raise the stakes on how the entirety of Uptown Saint John's appearance would be impacted, and force building owners to make their properties look cleaner, brighter, safer, and more inviting.

And it's not just buildings located within a 3 minute walk...it'd probably also mean places near Crown Street, up to the northern tip of Waterloo Village, and to the tip of Sydney St. Uptown Saint John could look absolutely SWAG in about 10 years, and would make people PROUD to live in that part of the city again.

And that attitude could spread outward as well, even to the Old North End, Crescent Valley, Anglin Drive, and the Wright St./Seely St.-Somerset St./Paradise Row+Winter St. corridor.

Anyone agree with any of the above?
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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2016, 11:35 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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Originally Posted by RaginRonic View Post
One thing that just crossed my mind about the IOL HQ project is that it could cause the start of a rather huge building renovation boom in the SouthCentral Peninsula. Having an office of that kind could raise the stakes on how the entirety of Uptown Saint John's appearance would be impacted, and force building owners to make their properties look cleaner, brighter, safer, and more inviting.

And it's not just buildings located within a 3 minute walk...it'd probably also mean places near Crown Street, up to the northern tip of Waterloo Village, and to the tip of Sydney St. Uptown Saint John could look absolutely SWAG in about 10 years, and would make people PROUD to live in that part of the city again.

And that attitude could spread outward as well, even to the Old North End, Crescent Valley, Anglin Drive, and the Wright St./Seely St.-Somerset St./Paradise Row+Winter St. corridor.

Anyone agree with any of the above?
1000%!!! The old bargain shop and coast guard site too. I truly believe this is a game changer!
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 3:29 AM
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kwajo kwajo is offline
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Originally Posted by RaginRonic View Post
One thing that just crossed my mind about the IOL HQ project is that it could cause the start of a rather huge building renovation boom in the SouthCentral Peninsula. Having an office of that kind could raise the stakes on how the entirety of Uptown Saint John's appearance would be impacted, and force building owners to make their properties look cleaner, brighter, safer, and more inviting.

And it's not just buildings located within a 3 minute walk...it'd probably also mean places near Crown Street, up to the northern tip of Waterloo Village, and to the tip of Sydney St. Uptown Saint John could look absolutely SWAG in about 10 years, and would make people PROUD to live in that part of the city again.

And that attitude could spread outward as well, even to the Old North End, Crescent Valley, Anglin Drive, and the Wright St./Seely St.-Somerset St./Paradise Row+Winter St. corridor.

Anyone agree with any of the above?
If that were to actually happen, it would be a good opportunity now for Saint John to engage in some meaningful discussions on anti-displacement initiatives to help soften the blow to segments of our population who are at risk of being marginalized or pushed out of neighbourhoods due to rising costs of living.
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  #95  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 10:16 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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If that were to actually happen, it would be a good opportunity now for Saint John to engage in some meaningful discussions on anti-displacement initiatives to help soften the blow to segments of our population who are at risk of being marginalized or pushed out of neighbourhoods due to rising costs of living.
I do agree. As the area continues to gentrify it will become harder to find housing for our city's less fortunate. There is quite a bit of development in the mixed use area....subsidized units mixed with market value units. What this may do is force the slumlords to clean up their act. I know that 170 properties were apparently bought by home star construction....most of which were properties you wouldn't put an animal in!
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  #96  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 6:32 PM
RaginRonic RaginRonic is offline
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If that were to actually happen, it would be a good opportunity now for Saint John to engage in some meaningful discussions on anti-displacement initiatives to help soften the blow to segments of our population who are at risk of being marginalized or pushed out of neighbourhoods due to rising costs of living.
BTW, when I said what I said, I only meant the act of cleaning up and modernizing older properties in Uptown Saint John.

The low-cost housing debate is one I'm not qualified to participate in, because there's too many complex issues about it I'll probably never fully understand.

=P
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  #97  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 10:01 PM
HardTruth HardTruth is offline
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Originally Posted by RaginRonic View Post
One thing that just crossed my mind about the IOL HQ project is that it could cause the start of a rather huge building renovation boom in the SouthCentral Peninsula. Having an office of that kind could raise the stakes on how the entirety of Uptown Saint John's appearance would be impacted, and force building owners to make their properties look cleaner, brighter, safer, and more inviting.

And it's not just buildings located within a 3 minute walk...it'd probably also mean places near Crown Street, up to the northern tip of Waterloo Village, and to the tip of Sydney St. Uptown Saint John could look absolutely SWAG in about 10 years, and would make people PROUD to live in that part of the city again.

And that attitude could spread outward as well, even to the Old North End, Crescent Valley, Anglin Drive, and the Wright St./Seely St.-Somerset St./Paradise Row+Winter St. corridor.

Anyone agree with any of the above?
I agree it will move some developers to step up their game but in general one new office building can't fix all the issues here.

If this was a brand new company coming in, building an HQ and hiring 1000 workers it would be a different story.

In this case we have an office consolidation which will leave many vacant buildings in its wake:


source = exchangewire

This will not help (at best it will be a neutral transaction) our office vacancy issue which
Turner and Drake sum up well:

Quote:
"Saint John continues to have the
highest overall vacancy rate and lowest overall net rental rate in
Atlantic Canada. The current vacancy rates in Greater Saint John are:
Class A 16.47%; Class B 16.61%; Class C 35.41%; Overall 20.94%.
We have to get some new blood into the system, the IBM announcement is actually better news than the IOL HQ in this regard.

Don't get me wrong the IOL HQ is a great thing for Uptown but its not a silver bullet solution like some people think. We are way too quick to jump onto those type of bandwagons here "Eider Rock will save us!" "Energy East will save us!".

We need to focus on the smaller businesses which are the real driving force of growth, not boom and bust style mega-projects.
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  #98  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 11:02 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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Originally Posted by HardTruth View Post
I agree it will move some developers to step up their game but in general one new office building can't fix all the issues here.

If this was a brand new company coming in, building an HQ and hiring 1000 workers it would be a different story.

In this case we have an office consolidation which will leave many vacant buildings in its wake:


source = exchangewire

This will not help (at best it will be a neutral transaction) our office vacancy issue which
Turner and Drake sum up well:



We have to get some new blood into the system, the IBM announcement is actually better news than the IOL HQ in this regard.

Don't get me wrong the IOL HQ is a great thing for Uptown but its not a silver bullet solution like some people think. We are way too quick to jump onto those type of bandwagons here "Eider Rock will save us!" "Energy East will save us!".

We need to focus on the smaller businesses which are the real driving force of growth, not boom and bust style mega-projects.
I tend to agree with you but I don't want to under estimate the impact this will have. Yes, there will be vacancy in the buildings they currently have but I see the consolidation as having a snowball effect on development in the core which is exactly what plansj is looking for. Many of these people are currently in buildings just far enough away from the core to be inconvenient....moving to King square will hopefully mean the need for services like grocery stores etc. It will also mean (I hope!) the need for quality housing uptown as once the HQ is built and gentrification continues, more and more people will want to live in the core.

This gentrification should spin into more and more services from retail to restaurants etc being needed.

I recognize that this is probably an over simplification of this but although it certainly is not a silver bullet it will restore hope which in turn will spur growth. In my opinion, attitude is part of the problem we have in Saint John. Is it the whole issue...no.....we still have many other issues to deal with but this will be a big step forward.

Regarding energy east, I don't believe for a minute that this is the saviour either but will it mean that eider rock or whatever it will be called will be built? Don't know but maybe it means an expansion of the existing refinery...more staff etc...you see my point.

I also have an opinion on the office space vacancy rate. Yes, we do have a ton of empty space...a lot of it class c which typically means it's a dump. If the stars align maybe just maybe all of the things I have mentioned will happen in some form and there will be a need for office and retail space.

Will any of this happen? Who knows. I certainly don't but I do know that if we do nothing, nothing will happen. Sitting here with our fingers crossed isn't good enough. We must have faith as we have been disappointed enough over the years...by industry and government alike.

Please don't take this as a criticism Hardtruth in any way....you have voiced very valid and real facts. I just wanted to add to your comments and say we can be more than we are....it all starts with an idea!

Here's hoping I'm right....time will tell.
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  #99  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 11:35 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
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I have difficulty believing that IOL has a business model which consists of building 1,000 new offices and putting a for lease sign on 1,000 old offices with no end game in mind. Maybe we get into a mass of other companies being able to consolidate their offices because of large blocks now becoming available, maybe new IOL projects come on board to help fill things up, but I think there will be a downstream effect of a new office building that just aren't apparent before the first shovel hits the dirt.
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  #100  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 11:56 PM
UptownJeff UptownJeff is offline
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I have difficulty believing that IOL has a business model which consists of building 1,000 new offices and putting a for lease sign on 1,000 old offices with no end game in mind. Maybe we get into a mass of other companies being able to consolidate their offices because of large blocks now becoming available, maybe new IOL projects come on board to help fill things up, but I think there will be a downstream effect of a new office building that just aren't apparent before the first shovel hits the dirt.
Agreed. Irving doesn't do anything without a plan! That's what makes me so optimistic!
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