DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS

[animatedmartian]

From what I've found, 300 feet seems to be the deep end. Cost usually ends up being the limiting factor, though it's possible.

San Francisco's bedrock is about 250-300 feet deep. A handful of skyscrapers have foundations this deep, but the construction costs are expensive relative to skyscrapers of similar size elsewhere in the US, probably mostly due to earthquake reinforcing. Houston also has bedrock at 300 feet deep, but most skyscrapers have mat (slab) foundations.

Detroit, Chicago, and New York City all have bedrock that's about 100-200 feet deep (with NYC the shallowest). Deep foundations are pretty standard here. I imagine there's not too much variation between Midwestern and East Coast cities.

[LMich]

Since we're talking about the technical aspects of construction and demolition, back on the Hardman photos, what exactly is going on in this one?


Hardman Construction

What are they doing with the retention system, here? Homrich, I believe, had already stabilized the tub walls, so I am unclear about what's going on in the picture. I'm under the impression that they are keeping the existing tub walls, but I have no idea, really.

[seabee1526]

Originally Posted by LMich

Since we're talking about the technical aspects of construction and demolition, back on the Hardman photos, what exactly is going on in this one?


Hardman Construction

What are they doing with the retention system, here? Homrich, I believe, had already stabilized the tub walls, so I am unclear about what's going on in the picture. I'm under the impression that they are keeping the existing tub walls, but I have no idea, really.

Looking forward to learning how buildings such as this one will be get built. I am hoping that we still see foundation work before the weather turns.

[animatedmartian]

I'll take a wild guess that they are in the process of strengthening the wall. Since there's going to be a bigger building than what the foundation was originally designed for, they probably need to reinforce it to handle to additional weight.

Luckily, all they really need to do is drill new tiebacks into the wall that can handle bigger loads. At least that's what I'm assuming is going on now.

[LMich]

The debris pile is getting smaller and smaller. A shot from yesterday:


48307

The photographer describes that as the piles have gotten smaller, how the equipment has gotten smaller, too. The descriptions just keep hitting home exactly how much prep work had to be done for this site. It's looking like when it was all demolished that the debris was at least a half-story thick on average across the entire site.

[animatedmartian]

This is kind of unexpected.

Gilbert's Hudson's site skyscraper may grow to 912 feet in height

The biggest building in the state is going to be even bigger than previously expected.

Billionaire mortgage mogul and real estate maven Dan Gilbert's skyscraper slated for downtown Detroit may grow by more than 100 feet to 912 feet tall, Crain's has learned.

While the final height has not yet been determined, Joe Guziewicz, vice president of construction for Gilbert's Bedrock LLC, confirmed that it will be taller than the 800 feet that was previously announced as the company looks to get "the most flexibility for how we use it and how we program it."

"We may end up at 900," Guziewicz said, adding that the city has been briefed on the plan. "This has been an ongoing struggle for us for the last eight months. We get one shot and we want to be sure we have the right components inside."

The maximum height of 912 feet was arrived at because that's the height the elevator cores as they are currently designed can support, Guziewicz said.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...12-feet-height

[M. Brown]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

This is kind of unexpected.

Gilbert's Hudson's site skyscraper may grow to 912 feet in height





https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...12-feet-height

Why don't we just make it an even 1,000 feet

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

This is kind of unexpected.

Gilbert's Hudson's site skyscraper may grow to 912 feet in height

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...12-feet-height

Excellent!!! Let's hope they are looking to maximize the height at the Monroe Block office tower too.

[The ATX]

Nice.

[NYguy]

Gilbert's Hudson's site skyscraper may grow to 912 feet in height

Not surprised. SHoP finds a way to build'em tall. I hope it does reach that height, it would have more of an impact, and the deck would presumably be higher as well. I think they should hit 1,000 ft for an even greater statement.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Not surprised. SHoP finds a way to build'em tall. I hope it does reach that height, it would have more of an impact, and the deck would presumably be higher as well. I think they should hit 1,000 ft for an even greater statement.

The issue seems to be on deciding what to put in it. You'd think that as tall as they're making it, they'd know what sort of use most of the building would have.

Can't knock Gilbert for being ambitious though.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

This is kind of unexpected.

Gilbert's Hudson's site skyscraper may grow to 912 feet in height

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...12-feet-height

At 800 feet, the thing already sticks out, particularly in its immediate neighborhood. I was kind of surprised how tall it look compared to the RenCen Marriott even being so (relatively) far away.

912 feet will be bonkers. It's going to need some neighbors. lol This wasn't totally unexpected, though. We did talk here about them wanting to put a hotel in the tower as a potential extra component, so I was expecting it to grow. It's good that we finally have some kind of maximum height - short of a core redesign - to see how tall this could get.

As others have said, though, if you're going to go that tall, you may as well add in some other component and get it to 1,000 feet. I realize they have to think about this economically, but more so than some projects in other cities right now it's clear that this is just as much a vanity project for Gilbert as it is an economical one. I could totally see him being convinced to push this to the limit.

[MayDay]

"Why don't we just make it an even 1,000 feet"



Just kidding, awesome news for you guys - can't wait to see the renderings!

[robk1982]

Originally Posted by MayDay

"Why don't we just make it an even 1,000 feet"



Just kidding, awesome news for you guys - can't wait to see the renderings!

Haha! Having gone to Cleveland State for grad school, there are few things I would enjoy more than for Detroit to have a taller building than Cleveland (and all of Ohio for that matter). And I love Key Tower.

[Steely Dan]

LOL!

i love the key tower pic, mayday


this is some unexpected news. at 912' this would be a very significant tower, not just for detroit, or just for the midwest, but even nationally.

if built to that height this would be one of the tallest buildings built in the US in the past 25 years (not including NYC which is in another stratosphere these days when it comes to skyscraper construction).

here are the 10 tallest skyscrapers built in the US in the past 25 years (NYC excepted):


1. 1,389' - trump tower - chicago
2. 1,191' - vista tower - chicago
3. 1,121' - comcast ITC - philly
4. 1,100' - wilshire grand - LA
5. 1,070' - salesforce tower - SF
6. 974' - comcast center - philly
7. 910' - oceanwide center - SF
8. 893' - NEMA - chicago
9. 868' - panorama tower- miami
10. 859' - aqua tower - chicago


what an esteemed group of cities for detroit to join. this would be a true "statement tower" in every sense of the word.

[seabee1526]

I'm looking forward to seeing the scale model highlighting the design.

[pianowizard]

Though I don't post much, in the past several months I have been coming to this forum almost daily hoping to learn about new developments at the Hudson site. Pushing the height at least 100 ft higher is a very pleasant surprise indeed!

Originally Posted by LMich

if you're going to go that tall, you may as well add in some other component and get it to 1,000 feet.

A spire could do it! Marriott at Ren Cen has a flat top, so having a spire atop the new tallest building would provide a nice contrast. There are cities that have too many spires, but Detroit is clearly not among them.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

here are the 10 tallest skyscrapers built in the US in the past 25 years (NYC excepted):

1. 1,389' - trump tower - chicago
2. 1,191' - vista tower - chicago
3. 1,121' - comcast ITC - philly
4. 1,100' - wilshire grand - LA
5. 1,070' - salesforce tower - SF
6. 974' - comcast center - philly
7. 910' - oceanwide center - SF
8. 893' - NEMA - chicago
9. 868' - panorama tower- miami
10. 859' - aqua tower - chicago

what an esteemed group of cities for detroit to join. this would be a true "statement tower" in every sense of the word.

Thanks for the interesting and informative list. The skyscraper frenzy going on in NYC sometimes makes us forget that, in the US, anything exceeding ~800' in a city not named New York is still a rarity. I hope Detroit will pull this off!

[Chris Stritzel]

When a structure is this tall, I hope it doesn't become a plain old box. SHoP Architects make great looking buildings so I hope they play around with the roofline to make it look better than a box plopped on top of the box. The current Hudson's Tower design is great, but maybe they could play with the design slightly and sort of cut some of the corners to give it a unique shape.

I guess we will find out what they will do when new renderings are released.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pianowizard

Thanks for the interesting and informative list. The skyscraper frenzy going on in NYC sometimes makes us forget that, in the US, anything exceeding ~800' in a city not named New York is still a rarity.

yeah, so far this century, NYC has gone bonkers. chicago has also been solid, but not NYC crazy.

800+ footers built in 21st century (including U/C)

NYC: = 13 + 19 = 32
chicago: 4 + 4 = 8
SF: 2 + 1 = 3
philly: 2
miami: 1 + 1 = 2
LA: 1
seattle: 1
oklahoma city: 1

so yes, outside of NYC and chicago, 800+ footers pretty rare in the US these days. detroit would be in some elite company if this tower moves forward.




for reference, here's how US cities stack up for 800+ footers built in the 20th century:

NYC: = 12 (includes the destroyed WTC twins)
chicago: 9
atlanta: 3
houston: 3
LA: 2
philly: 2
dallas: 2
cleveland: 1
seattle: 1
charlotte: 1
SF: 1
pittsburgh: 1
indinpolis: 1


in total, the US has built 89 buildings over 800' tall throughout history, but 61 of those have been in NYC and chicago, so that leaves only 28 in the rest of the nation.

let's hope detroit can bump that number up to 29.

[seabee1526]

Construction Dive

https://www.constructiondive.com/new...-in-us/538949/